DUST Search - CCP, isn't it time to look at active scanners?

Jebus McKing wrote:

Mejt0 wrote:

I'm a goddamn scout, i'm a goddamnt logi, assault etc etc. I'm not qqing. That's reality that scouts, especialy in PC are uncounterable by ewar thus it's ******.

And as a side note : medium/heavy frame ewar isn't a thing when we're talking about high level ewar > that means best possible ways of damp and counter damp.

I have 2 proto scouts, proto assault, proto logi, proto sentinel. So what.

Maybe, you know, it's a scouts role to not be countered by EWAR so easily? And when you say uncounterable you are omitting that to counter a GA logi with proto scanner AM and MN scouts already have to use 2 slots for dampeners, which is a huge commitment. But of course since AM and MN scouts aren't that much used in PC (correct me if I'm wrong) you base your claim to buff the active scanner solely on your experience against those other 2 scouts that have a bonus to dampening.

And of course medium frame EWAR isn't a thing and you know why not? Because GA logi scans are so strong that dampening anything but scout suits isn't worth it! But the solution to that certainly isn't to buff scanners even more. Quite the contrary.

I will fight any changes to active scanners that make it even harder to hide from scans for logis, assaults, AM and MN scouts. And unfortunately when people propose changes to scanning all they ever think about is how to counter GA and CA scouts with the least amount of effort.

Pages: [1] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 738	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:40:00 - [1] - Quote Every scout can damp, but only one logi can scan. Scanners should be more commom or usable for more logis. Loyal to State. Led by Tibus Heth. Not scared of death [like Admiral Yakiya Tobil-Toba]. Honour and Mission over money
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1754	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:49:00 - [2] - Quote I can agree with me being a Min Logistic but most already complain about scanners and how would that help the Gal to stand out if scanners clearly function better while it's the Gal's role to be the " beacon of light " so to speak . I also would appreciate it if they functioned better but you already have those who whine in the forums about scanner use * cough * ... * cough * - some scouts and others - * cough * , so it's clearly a fine line to walk . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1958	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:58:00 - [3] - Quote gal logi isnt even that good. 1. you will scan everything that is signficant with a proto scanner anyway. 2. properly damped scout will anyway dodge all your scans except for the focused one. BUT the focused scanner has 7s duration, 40s cooldown and harsh fitting requirements. the gal logi is unlikely to fit more than one, he has to actually scan in your direction (which shouldnt happen often if you actually use flanking to your advantage) and then IF you get scanned you simply pretend to move in a specific direction for 7 seconds and then you have 33 seconds of free movement again.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1983	Posted - 2015.01.28 14:03:00 - [4] - Quote I'd much rather they fixed passive scans first. That being said i dont really see a problem with active scanners tbh Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15279	Posted - 2015.01.28 14:05:00 - [5] - Quote Honestly I think every Logi should get a bonus which increases the efficiency of all Equipment. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1312	Posted - 2015.01.28 15:00:00 - [6] - Quote Right, a proto scanner has no problem scanning 80%+ of all suits... IT'S ***** USELESS PLS BUFF OMFGISNTITOBVIOUSHOWUNDERPOWEREDITISCCP!!1 Scanners are not the counter to dampened scouts. Scouts and dampeners are the counter to scanners.** "Scrambler Rifle is the most efficient rifle of them all. That's a fact." - CCP Rattati
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15282	Posted - 2015.01.28 15:12:00 - [7] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Scanners are not the counter to dampened scouts. Scouts and dampeners are the counter to scanners. Given how when 2 objects have the same db the winner goes to the ACS, it's actually the Scanner that counters the Scouts and Dampeners. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6130	Posted - 2015.01.28 15:18:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Scanners are not the counter to dampened scouts. Scouts and dampeners are the counter to scanners. Given how when 2 objects have the same db the winner goes to the ACS, it's actually the Scanner that counters the Scouts and Dampeners. Scanners also scan equipment. Does that make them the counter to equipment, Atiim? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6131	Posted - 2015.01.28 15:26:00 - [9] - Quote Logis do lots. They carry needles. They carry hives. They keep troops up and supplied. Logi's are a key component in competitive heavy/blob meta. They're the only troops who can spam decent Uplinks, which is a necessity in any competitive environment. The AM Scout, by contrast, has precisely zero competitive function to fill since the changes to passive scanning. You ask, CCP, isn't it time to look at active scanners? I say, yes. Remove the useless AM Scout passive scan bonus, and give him the GA Logi Active Scan bonus. Give the GA Logi something else. Something perhaps Logi-like. Leave recon to the Scouts. Leave Logistics to the Logis. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 8068	Posted - 2015.01.28 15:38:00 - [10] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: gal logi isnt even that good. 1. you will scan everything important with a proto scanner anyway. scout will dodge but you will know there are here. 2. properly damped scout will anyway dodge all your scans except for the focused one. BUT the focused scanner has 7s duration, 40s cooldown and harsh fitting requirements. the gal logi is unlikely to fit more than one, he has to actually scan in your direction (which shouldnt happen often if you actually use flanking to your advantage) and then IF you get scanned you simply pretend to move in a specific direction for 7 seconds and then you have 33 seconds of free movement again. All scouts can damp/cloak beneath a focused scanner, by the way. It's not worth using. Sniper range nerf did nothing but make it harder to counter-snipe redliners. That and open up for really stupid feedback

Atiim Titans of Phoenix 15285	Posted - 2015.01.28 16:13:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Atiim wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Scanners are not the counter to dampened scouts. Scouts and dampeners are the counter to scanners. Given how when 2 objects have the same db the winner goes to the ACS, it's actually the Scanner that counters the Scouts and Dampeners. Scanners also scan equipment. Does that make them the counter to equipment, Atiim? In a way, yes as ACSs are an effective way of finding well hidden equipment thus making the task of destroying them trivial. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5750	Posted - 2015.01.28 16:51:00 - [12] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Every scout can damp, but only one logi can scan. Scanners should be more commom or usable for more logis. I agree. Active Scanners should be viable as equipment outside of just the Gallente Logi. After all, all other equipment is still effective even when not carried by the race it gets bonuses for. I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV R.I.P. Kesha
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5793	Posted - 2015.01.28 17:14:00 - [13] - Quote Technically, every logi is able to equip and use an Active Scanner. Thing is, a Gallogi can see more for a longer amount of time. Proto scanners are pretty good, no matter which suit are using them.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 740	Posted - 2015.01.28 17:43:00 - [14] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Technically, every logi is able to equip and use an Active Scanner. Thing is, a Gallogi can see more for a longer amount of time. Proto scanners are pretty good, no matter which suit are using them. [Talking about PC now] Proto scanners have 28/20 db scans. Outside of gallogi they scan only medium and heavy frames. Since passive scans changes, gallogi is the only possible [and still bad] way to try to counter scouts. But 7 secs scan and 40 sec cooldown are bad right now. Loyal to State. Led by Tibus Heth. Not scared of death [like Admiral Yakiya Tobil-Toba]. Honour and Mission over money
axis alpha Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 516	Posted - 2015.01.28 17:48:00 - [15] - Quote Lol no I cut you up so bad.... You gonna wish I no cut you up so bad.
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1313	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:21:00 - [16] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Outside of gallogi they scan only medium and heavy frames. ... "only medium and heavy frames" already make up 80% of all frames. Isn't that good enough?! Sometimes I have the feeling that people really think being scanned should be the default state for everyone. Do you know how hard it is for an assault or logi to hide from scans, especially GA logi scans? Probably not. It is not in your mindset that these suits should not show up on radars 100% of the time. You stack tons of HP and don't care about getting scanned and only come to the forums when that "OP" scout shot you in the butt because you were too focused on shooting at those shiny red dots. Stop being lazy and use your eyes, check your surroundings. "Scrambler Rifle is the most efficient rifle of them all. That's a fact." - CCP Rattati
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2907	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:21:00 - [17] - Quote Honestly, if anything scanners need nerfed, at least the duration, cooldown, range, and angle. The Gal logi can get 250m perma-scans at a 50-¦ angle at 21dB that are visible to the whole team, using only 2 equipment. People were complaining about passives being OP, yet no complaint on this. At least a scout had to sacrifice some ehp to get it's measly scans, I can fit the above on a STD Gal logi and still have more tank than any of my scouts. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
JIMvc2 Consolidated Dust 582	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:28:00 - [18] - Quote The way scanners were before it was A PAIN IN THE ASS!!! That stupid red message saying " You've been scanned" It was like EVERY ***** 5 SECONDS !! My Final answer is NO I don't want to see that pathetic message every 5 seconds. Besides everyone knows the maps well so why use a ***** scanner like wtf use your brain " IF " you have one. MAG Raven vet 7 times. Favorite weapon F90 and Highest Kills 78 and 23 deaths.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 741	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:03:00 - [19] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Outside of gallogi they scan only medium and heavy frames. ... "only medium and heavy frames" already make up 80% of all frames. Isn't that good enough?! Sometimes I have the feeling that people really think being scanned should be the default state for everyone. Do you know how hard it is for an assault or logi to hide from scans, especially GA logi scans? Probably not. It is not in your mindset that these suits should not show up on radars 100% of the time. You stack tons of HP and don't care about getting scanned and only come to the forums when that "OP" scout shot you in the butt because you were too focused on shooting at those shiny red dots. Stop being lazy and use your eyes, check your surroundings. I'm a goddamn scout, i'm a goddamnt logi, assault etc etc. I'm not qqing. That's reality that scouts, especialy in PC are uncounterable by ewar thus it's ******. And as a side note : medium/heavy frame ewar isn't a thing when we're talking about high level ewar > that means best possible ways of damp and counter damp. Loyal to State. Led by Tibus Heth. Not scared of death [like Admiral Yakiya Tobil-Toba]. Honour and Mission over money
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 741	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:08:00 - [20] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: The way scanners were before it was A PAIN IN THE ASS!!! That stupid red message saying " You've been scanned" It was like EVERY ***** 5 SECONDS !! My Final answer is NO I don't want to see that pathetic message every 5 seconds. Besides everyone knows the maps well so why use a ***** scanner like wtf use your brain " IF " you have one. Knowing the map is your solution? You're a genius dude. Gratz. You won this game. No doubt. Loyal to State. Led by Tibus Heth. Not scared of death [like Admiral Yakiya Tobil-Toba]. Honour and Mission over money

Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1157	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:11:00 - [21] - Quote Scanners work fine, team scanning is broken. Scanning tiers operate how you would assume. Basic scanners scan undamped low ewar skilled suits, advanced up to non damped med frames with max passives and low ewar skilled or non damped scouts, proto scans everything except properly fitted suits. Scanners are viable, it's the lack of compromise by players not wanting to damp to beat the scans. The gal bonus makes a nice little push, but its perfectly viable on other suits. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1317	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:45:00 - [22] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: I'm a goddamn scout, i'm a goddamnt logi, assault etc etc. I'm not qqing. That's reality that scouts, especialy in PC are uncounterable by ewar thus it's ******. And as a side note : medium/heavy frame ewar isn't a thing when we're talking about high level ewar > that means best possible ways of damp and counter damp. I have 2 proto scouts, proto assault, proto logi, proto sentinel. So what. Maybe, you know, it's a scouts role to not be countered by EWAR so easily? And when you say uncounterable you are omitting that to counter a GA logi with proto scanner AM and MN scouts already have to use 2 slots for dampeners, which is a huge commitment. But of course since AM and MN scouts aren't that much used in PC (correct me if I'm wrong) you base your claim to buff the active scanner solely on your experience against those other 2 scouts that have a bonus to dampening. And of course medium frame EWAR isn't a thing and you know why not? Because GA logi scans are so strong that dampening anything but scout suits isn't worth it! But the solution to that certainly isn't to buff scanners even more. Quite the contrary. I will fight any changes to active scanners that make it even harder to hide from scans for logis, assaults, AM and MN scouts. And unfortunately when people propose changes to scanning all they ever think about is how to counter GA and CA scouts with the least amount of effort. Jebus still hates scans.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game RUST415 742	Posted - 2015.01.29 08:25:00 - [23] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Mejt0 wrote: I'm a goddamn scout, i'm a goddamnt logi, assault etc etc. I'm not qqing. That's reality that scouts, especialy in PC are uncounterable by ewar thus it's ******. And as a side note : medium/heavy frame ewar isn't a thing when we're talking about high level ewar > that means best possible ways of damp and counter damp. I have 2 proto scouts, proto assault, proto logi, proto sentinel. So what. Maybe, you know, it's a scouts role to not be countered by EWAR so easily? And when you say uncounterable you are omitting that to counter a GA logi with proto scanner AM and MN scouts already have to use 2 slots for dampeners, which is a huge commitment. But of course since AM and MN scouts aren't that much used in PC (correct me if I'm wrong) you base your claim to buff the active scanner solely on your experience against those other 2 scouts that have a bonus to dampening. And of course medium frame EWAR isn't a thing and you know why not? Because GA logi scans are so strong that dampening anything but scout suits isn't worth it! But the solution to that certainly isn't to buff scanners even more. Quite the contrary. I will fight any changes to active scanners that make it even harder to hide from scans for logis, assaults, AM and MN scouts. And unfortunately when people propose changes to scanning all they ever think about is how to counter GA and CA scouts with the least amount of effort. I'm a dedicated Minja in PC. And 2 slots ain't that much, cuz what else will you fit there? 2nd kincat takes too much pg etc [Hack mods are exception]. Read my main post again if you can. I edited it. To be fair with other frames. Loyal to State. Led by Tibus Heth. Not scared of death [like Admiral Yakiya Tobil-Toba]. Honour and Mission over money
Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1322	Posted - 2015.01.29 10:47:00 - [24] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: EDIT. Or to be fair with other frames. If there would be a scanner desinged to scan light frames only [or if it's hard to make] or scanner that scans only between 15-20db, or 15-18db with lower cooldown than focused. The thing is, there is nothing stopping a logi to use multiple active scanners. So with a scanner for mediums/heavies and another one for scouts we will once again enter the era of permascan - because we know that people WILL (and already do) use multiple scanners if it gives them this huge of an advantage. And with the addition of a low db scanner there will be no way to ever hide from a team with a competent scanner logi. Buffing the scanner really is the wrong way to counter scouts. As long as active scanners work like they currently do... (scan durations of 5-15s+, wallhack-like chevron over targets head, too easy to use, target visible for the whole team, hard to counter for mediums, almost impossible to counter for heavies, multiple scanners per logi possible / cycling scanners means 0s between scans, scanner beats profile if equal in db, dampeners become completely useless if profile db not good enough to beat scanner) ...I don't think it is justified to buff them. What I really want to see is a second stat for dampeners so that they also reduce the time you are being scanned (the shortest possible duration should be 1s though). This will make them more usefull to all suits. Then we can talk about introducing stronger scanners with very short scan durations. My thoughts about that would to make i.e. a scanner that has the db and cooldown of a focused scanner, a wider angle, but a duration of only 1s. This way you could get a rough estimate where a scout is coming from, which makes countering them easier without marking them for certain death. And lastly we have to introduce a global cooldown for scanners (i.e. use your first scanner -> all other equipped scanners go into cooldown as if they had been used at the same time) to counter spamming scans non-stop. OR, which would be a less favourable solution IMO*, make it so that you can only equip one scanner at the same time, like you can only equip one cloak. Jebus still hates scans.


Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page