DUST Search - (Request) Make the logistics dropsuit move faster. Part 2

Mavado V Noriega wrote:

Proto Assaults only have 1 equipment slot
Proto Logi 4
Proto Scout 2

Nome wants to be a fast logistics type character he needs to get a scout suit and equip both nanite and rep tool and there is his fast logi

onto your point it wont take ppl very long to kill the healer 1st u do know there are skills and mods to buff your armor and shields right? and if they are just behind the frontline assault its gonna be hard to actually kill the healer 1st, unlike if he actually had the same speed or faster than assault he would be on the front line making it easier to actually pick him off.

the problem here is u want the suit catered to you and your style.

if ppl want to use assault as logi they can do that gonna have to spread the equipment across alot more members but hey CCP never said u couldnt but its a tradeoff.

You'll end up with 3-4 of your squad mates running support items, when it can be handled by 1. Think about it, assault should be frontline but if u spread the equipment across then u will have these same frontline soldiers having to take their attention off the actual shooting to turn to rep their squad mates since they only get 1 slot each, thus making it easier to take them out because thats less guns focusing on your guys whereas u can keep your 5 assaults focused on keepin the enemy busy or in cover and have that logi in the back reppin ppl

BTW some rep tools can fire 2 beams so u can have that 1 logi reppin 2 ppl at the same time.

PS: pretty sure patch notes are adding a militia logi since they said its gonna be a starter fit in new build

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[Veteran_Memeotis] 0	Posted - 2012.05.24 21:10:00 - [1] - Quote I wrote a previous post about this topic, which attracted a lot of attention and now that I have heard arguments from both sides, I've changed my opinion somewhat. In my previous post I argued to increase the movement speed of the logistics suit to either the same speed as the assault, or even slightly higher. My reasons were that the logistics players should have some degree of survivability and should not be entirely dependent on other players. Secondly I thought that since they are both slower and have lower health than the assault, even when they are with a group they are going to become a slow, expensive and easy to kill mule. And therefore, organized groups would likely end up choosing to spread out the logistics equipment among their assaults, rather than be dependent on a relatively weak dropsuit to carry it all. I was personally leaning towards making the dropsuit faster than the assault by default, because other games have used that formula with success. But Numbz pointed out that this might lead to the logistics potentially gaining the upper hand against an assault, and I have to agree with that. However, I did get to play against some logistics today, and it really only helped to reinforce my opinion that these guys are just too easy to kill given their importance. I think it would be fair to predict that the majority of organized squads will be composed of assaults and logistics. These two classes will inevitably form the core of any team, while the other two suits will perform the more specialized and specific roles. I therefore still think that logistics players should have the option to be as fast as the fastest assault suit, rather than be at an absolute disadvantage. If they are at the same speed, it's fair they have a little less armor, since an armor reduction would be needed to compensate for the extra weight they are carrying. ...And now for the actual idea: There will be four different faction variants of each type of suit. The factions' effect, I suspect, will be to slant the stats of all four suits, meaning that Minmatar suits will be relatively quick and fragile, while the Amarr suits will be relatively slow and sturdy. As far as I know, the list of fastest to slowest is as follows: Minmatar -> Gallente -> Caldari -> Amarr. My suggestion is to make the Minmatar logistics suit as fast as the Minmatar assault suit, and the Amarr logistics suit as fast as the Amarr assault suit... you get the idea. This way, players can choose to be a very durable Amarr logistics, very good for healing a stationary group of defenders, but will lack behind when trying to keep up with his squad of Gallente, Caldari and Minmatar assaults. But now it's a choice. This way, a logistics player can now adapt to match the playstyle of the squad he is keeping alive, and if he is ever too slow, it's not because of his suit, it's because he made a poor decision based on how he thought his squad was going to play. This, to me, makes all the difference. I've really looked forward to being a speedy logistics character, where my role is in the fringes of my squad, healing when required, darting in to revive people, but also able to deal with the occasional flanker, rather than being the central, durable healer who is constantly linked to the leading heavy.
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega] 0	Posted - 2012.05.24 21:34:00 - [2] - Quote u do realise most ppl on the beta are also average right? (no offense to anyone plz just trying to make a point here) if i were to judge heavies based on the ppl in the beta i wud say heavy needs a buff because i take them down too easy at launch there wont be amarr logistics amarr assualt etc. CCP stated that might come later and they will have to see how the memory usage is. Logistics need to be slower than assault suits. Ppl need to STOP treating the actual suits like actual classes , CCP has said many times there are no classes in this game u build your character how u want, if u want a fast moving healer then equip a scout suit with rep tool thus he now becomes a fast moving logistics character. stop treating the game like it has 4 classes, actually wish CCP would rename the suits so ppl wont keep under this impression that u must be in a logistics suit to be support or u must be in a scout suit to be a sniper. Logi suit is 4.50m/s Assault suit is 5.00m/s not that big of a difference if ppl that desperately want a speed boost then around 4.65-4.75 but it should in no way shape or form be on par with assault because then assault will get less use. I can build a pretty good AR wielding DPS fit with the logi suit no support items at all and like i stated before sidearms arent all that important currently so the only downside to my logi suit is its speed , HP can be buffed with mods proto logi can use 8 see how much u can do with 8 slots, by far the highest amount of PG and CPU on that suit.
[Veteran_Memeotis] 0	Posted - 2012.05.25 10:50:00 - [3] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Logistics need to be slower than assault suits. Ppl need to STOP treating the actual suits like actual classes , CCP has said many times there are no classes in this game u build your character how u want, if u want a fast moving healer then equip a scout suit with rep tool thus he now becomes a fast moving logistics character. stop treating the game like it has 4 classes, actually wish CCP would rename the suits so ppl wont keep under this impression that u must be in a logistics suit to be support or u must be in a scout suit to be a sniper. Then who would actually choose to play it? It's a very SP intensive skill, there's no militia suit and you'll also be buying many extra equipments. I think it was Nova who said that if you face off with a heavy getting healed by a repair tool, they're almost impossible to kill. Well, it won't take very long before players to realize to kill the healer first, in which case a logistics using RR will be a worse choice than an assault using RR. It just seems that the roles the logistics suit will be performing, will be done better by an assault.
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega] 0	Posted - 2012.05.25 12:13:00 - [4] - Quote Proto Assaults only have 1 equipment slot Proto Logi 4 Proto Scout 2 Nome wants to be a fast logistics type character he needs to get a scout suit and equip both nanite and rep tool and there is his fast logi onto your point it wont take ppl very long to kill the healer 1st u do know there are skills and mods to buff your armor and shields right? and if they are just behind the frontline assault its gonna be hard to actually kill the healer 1st, unlike if he actually had the same speed or faster than assault he would be on the front line making it easier to actually pick him off. the problem here is u want the suit catered to you and your style. if ppl want to use assault as logi they can do that gonna have to spread the equipment across alot more members but hey CCP never said u couldnt but its a tradeoff. You'll end up with 3-4 of your squad mates running support items, when it can be handled by 1. Think about it, assault should be frontline but if u spread the equipment across then u will have these same frontline soldiers having to take their attention off the actual shooting to turn to rep their squad mates since they only get 1 slot each, thus making it easier to take them out because thats less guns focusing on your guys whereas u can keep your 5 assaults focused on keepin the enemy busy or in cover and have that logi in the back reppin ppl BTW some rep tools can fire 2 beams so u can have that 1 logi reppin 2 ppl at the same time. PS: pretty sure patch notes are adding a militia logi since they said its gonna be a starter fit in new build
[Veteran_Memeotis] 0	Posted - 2012.05.25 14:35:00 - [5] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Proto Assaults only have 1 equipment slot Proto Logi 4 Proto Scout 2 Nome wants to be a fast logistics type character he needs to get a scout suit and equip both nanite and rep tool and there is his fast logi onto your point it wont take ppl very long to kill the healer 1st u do know there are skills and mods to buff your armor and shields right? and if they are just behind the frontline assault its gonna be hard to actually kill the healer 1st, unlike if he actually had the same speed or faster than assault he would be on the front line making it easier to actually pick him off. the problem here is u want the suit catered to you and your style. if ppl want to use assault as logi they can do that gonna have to spread the equipment across alot more members but hey CCP never said u couldnt but its a tradeoff. You'll end up with 3-4 of your squad mates running support items, when it can be handled by 1. Think about it, assault should be frontline but if u spread the equipment across then u will have these same frontline soldiers having to take their attention off the actual shooting to turn to rep their squad mates since they only get 1 slot each, thus making it easier to take them out because thats less guns focusing on your guys whereas u can keep your 5 assaults focused on keepin the enemy busy or in cover and have that logi in the back reppin ppl BTW some rep tools can fire 2 beams so u can have that 1 logi reppin 2 ppl at the same time. PS: pretty sure patch notes are adding a militia logi since they said its gonna be a starter fit in new build Yeah, I just noticed about the militia stuff. Let's assume you have a squad of six, all using assault proto, giving them a grand total of 12 equipment slots. The three crucial items that will keep this group rolling are RR, injector and nanohive. Why would this group ever want to replace one of the assaults with a logistic? They already have plenty of equipment slots, the extra two slots that the logistics can bring to the scene will seem counter-productive. Rather than having an assault which you don't need to worry about as much, the assaults would instead have to keep the logistics character protected. The only thing that the logistics suit has is one more high-powered slot, and that's hardly going to make up for the reduced shield, armor and speed. Also, just because a dropsuit is made faster does not mean it's magically propelled to the front by some mythical force. Speed enables a player to stay alive more easily, but the low armor and shield would still make the logistics players very cautious. You have to factor all three (shield, armor, speed) into the equation. As it stands right now, the logistics suit has no definitive role in this game, which other dropsuits can't do better.
[Veteran_Ignatius Crumwald] 0	Posted - 2012.05.25 15:37:00 - [6] - Quote You couldn't equip a repair gun on anything but a logi suit in the old build - they haven't said this would change. You can't be "heavy support" Heavy suits have no support slots. This game has classes - obviously. Speed should be based on armor - end of story.
[Veteran_Mavado V Noriega] 0	Posted - 2012.05.27 14:47:00 - [7] - Quote Ignatius Crumwald wrote: You couldn't equip a repair gun on anything but a logi suit in the old build - they haven't said this would change. You can't be "heavy support" Heavy suits have no support slots. This game has classes - obviously. Speed should be based on armor - end of story. that was the OLD build and if they kept it that way that would be incredibly limiting since CCP themselves u create your guy how u want. U can be a heavy sniper, heavy assault etc dont see why only the repair tool was limited to that suit, maybe thats why they took them out. Fact of the matter is Logi is also running with more gear The game has classes but not pre-defined ones that state u must be in a scout suit to be a sniper, or u must be in an assault suit to use an AR, or heavies are only limited to heavy weapons Instead its catered for more customisation where u can be a heavy sniper if u wanted. Problem with giving logi more speed than assault is because ppl WILL use it more than the assault suit because that means thats a perfect middle ground between better tank Assault and super nimble scout, which would make more Killers/Damage dealers go Logi because they have better mobility than assault and better tank than Scout ALL while having the MOST module and equipment slots to make them practically super soldiers if the speed is increased Like i said, i trained this suit 1st for this very reason but at the time didnt see that it was indeed slower than assault. If the speed is increased that puts a big smile on the faces of killers like myself because now my strafing is better, i can revive teammates , i can resupply myself with ammo, use drop uplinks and still have another equipment slot for the always troll friendly remote explosives and to top it off i got 8 module slots i can use to increase my tank , slap some dmg mods, armor reps etc. That 1 fit makes a better assault and recon guy rolled into 1 with the stuff he can put on if it gets increased speed. Hence the logi suit is most expensive to train. Now u tell me that doesnt sound a bit unfair? and last i checked there are skills to increase sprint speed so WHY ppl want the base speed increased when they already have skills for it is beyond me. Goes back to ppl not looking at the bigger picture. PS: Would love a dev just to step in here and confirm if the repair tool will be useable on other suits outside logi
[Veteran_Rhapsodyy] 0	Posted - 2012.06.12 15:49:00 - [8] - Quote Proto Assault has 2 equipment slots.
[Veteran_Sha Kharn Clone] 0	Posted - 2012.06.12 16:49:00 - [9] - Quote The minys made this suit I say give it some more speed and add ductape. But as much as I would like to see it faster no one wants to see it faster than an assult .. right ?
[Veteran_Nova Knife] 0	Posted - 2012.06.12 17:07:00 - [10] - Quote The main problem with this post is that as much as I love memeotis, he didn't actually try the logi suit (Afaik) before posting. As someone who has used these suits extensively, believe me when I tell you that a single logi can turn pretty much anyone into a juggernaut. They are somewhat easier to kill now, but not because of their speed (They are only like 0.5m/s slower than an assault) but because of their lesser HP and only one weapon slot. If logi were made faster it would make it far too easy for them to dance around while repairing teammates. Because of the massive bonus logibros give to their team they do sort of need to be killed easier than other suits. They should always be a priority. Any PVP in any game ever knows you take out the healers/medics first to cripple the opposition. As a logibro, it's your job to keep your teammates alive. As teammates, it's their job to make sure people don't get past or through them to shoot their logibro! Logistics suits shouldn't be relying on their own suit to survive, they have meatshields for that.

[Veteran_Rhapsodyy] 0	Posted - 2012.06.12 17:09:00 - [11] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: The minys made this suit I say give it some more speed and add ductape. But as much as I would like to see it faster no one wants to see it faster than an assult .. right ? No i wouldnt like to see it faster than an assault. Neither would i like to see it with more health than an assault. Ive been playing with my proto logi suit a bit today, and on their own they are such easy pickings for any other class. (Why you all leave me) A 0.1- 0.2 base speed buff might not be amiss to help survivability a little via strafeing but ill leave that to ccp to decide, as mentioned minmatar suit. so giev some more speed Matari ducktape is known for providing better aerodynamics so i think you need to put some more on lol. But seriously, until we have party system and people runing around with proper squad mates and a bunch of other little fixes logi needs (icons etc) i dont think we will see what they can really do. Cos atm when i try and play with them as soon as i get seperated from team mates im easy pickings. When some people have actually stayed with me though have had a cpl of good runs, though has only been me and 1 other, so eventually some1 sneaks up and kills me while im trying to rep that heavy in front of me.


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