DUST Search - Weapon hit logic either exploitable, or unbalanced

Sudog Northmead wrote:

Been playing since.. I dunno. One of the Betas, either open or closed. Who gives a ****.

I've been playing FPS games since Duke Nukem and Quake. (The original Quake.) And Unreal Tournament. (The original Unreal Tournament.) In those old Quake levels, E1M7, any of the DM* levels, and .. well basically any level, really, I'm the guy that people thought was a bot. I'm the guy who could rocket jump without a macro and while in the air, shoot an open doorway that a guy was about to appear in, trimp down the hallway, change direction in mid-air, and polish someone off with an axe just for flourish.

But you know? I get it. People who were modem players sucked not because they sucked, but because on average their reflexes couldn't keep up. I'm sure it was super annoying for them. I'm sure.

So Quake's logic wasn't great, but it was simple, and it was predictable. When you were 100ms slower than your opponent, you were at a disadvantage because of the slight delay in your ability to respond. LPB, as they are called, got their name in part from Quake. (Well, and Netrek, but still.) So what, you learn to spam with the rocket launcher.. the great equalizer, and you didn't bother pulling out the Shaft.

And so here's the thing. in Dust514, I'm really god***ed tired of something I've been seeing for a really long time, and that is this: the hit logic is unbalanced either in favour of players with low ping, or in favour of players with high ping. I don't yet know which, because I assumed that if I built a lagswitch for my router I'd eventually be caught and benned. Obviously this assumption is wrong. I have a ridiculously overpowered cable modem. I have 100+Mbps connectivity, and a 40ms ping to San Diego. I am not capped. I am not QoS'd. I pay a huge monthly bill for unmetered internet.

I just came out of a battle where someone named V-E-X popped out of his cloak with Ishukone Nova Knives; I spotted him, and emptied almost half a clip into his face while he jumped around and failed with his novas. I could hear the god-****ed tinking of the bullets hitting *as I was firing them.* I could *SEE* his shields flashing blue!

What I didn't see was his shield meter budge. Like not even a sliver. When he finally did kill me, I'd had enough. This has been a small problem in the past, but lately it's become intolerable. What. The. ****.

CCP, I *WISH* you would explain what the **** is going on, and whether I need to start leading someone with my gun or not, because whatever is going on, a huge number of so-called "good" players aren't ***ing taking any damage while I'm sitting there unloading full clips of CreoDron Breach Assault in their BACKS. Entire squads of internet cafe jerks appear to be either gaming your ****** hit logic, or magically benefitting from a ping advantage.

Here's the thing: people *could* learn to lead their shots. But the god-***ed audible feedback mechanism INDICATES THAT I AM HITTING THEM. WHY IS IT DOING THAT IF I AM NOT. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ADAPT IF THE ONLY INDICATION OF HOW FAR AHEAD I'M SUPPOSED TO LEAD MY OPPONENT IS WHETHER I DIE AFTER A 30-SECOND FIREFIGHT?

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Sudog Northmead Circuits of Time 0	Posted - 2015.01.11 10:35:00 - [1] - Quote Been playing since.. I dunno. One of the Betas, either open or closed. Who gives a ***. I've been playing FPS games since Duke Nukem and Quake. (The original Quake.) And Unreal Tournament. (The original Unreal Tournament.) In those old Quake levels, E1M7, any of the DM levels, and .. well basically any level, really, I'm the guy that people thought was a bot. I'm the guy who could rocket jump without a macro and while in the air, shoot an open doorway that a guy was about to appear in, trimp down the hallway, change direction in mid-air, and polish someone off with an axe just for flourish. But you know? I get it. People who were modem players sucked not because they sucked, but because on average their reflexes couldn't keep up. I'm sure it was super annoying for them. I'm sure. So Quake's logic wasn't great, but it was simple, and it was predictable. When you were 100ms slower than your opponent, you were at a disadvantage because of the slight delay in your ability to respond. LPB, as they are called, got their name in part from Quake. (Well, and Netrek, but still.) So what, you learn to spam with the rocket launcher.. the great equalizer, and you didn't bother pulling out the Shaft. And so here's the thing. in Dust514, I'm really god*ed tired of something I've been seeing for a really long time, and that is this: the hit logic is unbalanced either in favour of players with low ping, or in favour of players with high ping. I don't yet know which, because I assumed that if I built a lagswitch for my router I'd eventually be caught and benned. Obviously this assumption is wrong. I have a ridiculously overpowered cable modem. I have 100+Mbps connectivity, and a 40ms ping to San Diego. I am not capped. I am not QoS'd. I pay a huge monthly bill for unmetered internet. I just came out of a battle where someone named V-E-X popped out of his cloak with Ishukone Nova Knives; I spotted him, and emptied almost half a clip into his face while he jumped around and failed with his novas. I could hear the god-*ed tinking of the bullets hitting as I was firing them.* I could SEE his shields flashing blue! What I didn't see was his shield meter budge. Like not even a sliver. When he finally did kill me, I'd had enough. This has been a small problem in the past, but lately it's become intolerable. What. The. ***. CCP, I WISH* you would explain what the ** is going on, and whether I need to start leading someone with my gun or not, because whatever is going on, a huge number of so-called "good" players aren't ing taking any damage while I'm sitting there unloading full clips of CreoDron Breach Assault in their BACKS. Entire squads of internet cafe jerks appear to be either gaming your ***** hit logic, or magically benefitting from a ping advantage. Here's the thing: people could learn to lead their shots. But the god-***ed audible feedback mechanism INDICATES THAT I AM HITTING THEM. WHY IS IT DOING THAT IF I AM NOT. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ADAPT IF THE ONLY INDICATION OF HOW FAR AHEAD I'M SUPPOSED TO LEAD MY OPPONENT IS WHETHER I DIE AFTER A 30-SECOND FIREFIGHT?
Union118 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 218	Posted - 2015.01.11 11:09:00 - [2] - Quote Sudog Northmead wrote: Been playing since.. I dunno. One of the Betas, either open or closed. Who gives a ***. I've been playing FPS games since Duke Nukem and Quake. (The original Quake.) And Unreal Tournament. (The original Unreal Tournament.) In those old Quake levels, E1M7, any of the DM levels, and .. well basically any level, really, I'm the guy that people thought was a bot. I'm the guy who could rocket jump without a macro and while in the air, shoot an open doorway that a guy was about to appear in, trimp down the hallway, change direction in mid-air, and polish someone off with an axe just for flourish. But you know? I get it. People who were modem players sucked not because they sucked, but because on average their reflexes couldn't keep up. I'm sure it was super annoying for them. I'm sure. So Quake's logic wasn't great, but it was simple, and it was predictable. When you were 100ms slower than your opponent, you were at a disadvantage because of the slight delay in your ability to respond. LPB, as they are called, got their name in part from Quake. (Well, and Netrek, but still.) So what, you learn to spam with the rocket launcher.. the great equalizer, and you didn't bother pulling out the Shaft. And so here's the thing. in Dust514, I'm really god*ed tired of something I've been seeing for a really long time, and that is this: the hit logic is unbalanced either in favour of players with low ping, or in favour of players with high ping. I don't yet know which, because I assumed that if I built a lagswitch for my router I'd eventually be caught and benned. Obviously this assumption is wrong. I have a ridiculously overpowered cable modem. I have 100+Mbps connectivity, and a 40ms ping to San Diego. I am not capped. I am not QoS'd. I pay a huge monthly bill for unmetered internet. I just came out of a battle where someone named V-E-X popped out of his cloak with Ishukone Nova Knives; I spotted him, and emptied almost half a clip into his face while he jumped around and failed with his novas. I could hear the god-*ed tinking of the bullets hitting as I was firing them.* I could SEE his shields flashing blue! What I didn't see was his shield meter budge. Like not even a sliver. When he finally did kill me, I'd had enough. This has been a small problem in the past, but lately it's become intolerable. What. The. ***. CCP, I WISH* you would explain what the ** is going on, and whether I need to start leading someone with my gun or not, because whatever is going on, a huge number of so-called "good" players aren't ing taking any damage while I'm sitting there unloading full clips of CreoDron Breach Assault in their BACKS. Entire squads of internet cafe jerks appear to be either gaming your ***** hit logic, or magically benefitting from a ping advantage. Here's the thing: people could learn to lead their shots. But the god-***ed audible feedback mechanism INDICATES THAT I AM HITTING THEM. WHY IS IT DOING THAT IF I AM NOT. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ADAPT IF THE ONLY INDICATION OF HOW FAR AHEAD I'M SUPPOSED TO LEAD MY OPPONENT IS WHETHER I DIE AFTER A 30-SECOND FIREFIGHT? I thought it was only me having this problem as well. You just explained some of my most frustrating matches against some protostompers that couldnt touch. I too thought I had to lead my shots but even if I was aim down sights at a 40m distance the hits didnt show I was hitting them and I was 100% sure I was. Even the crosshairs told me I was but the health bar over their head didnt go down. So I keep thinking people cheat. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Sudog Northmead Circuits of Time 0	Posted - 2015.01.11 11:20:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah, I have no idea if people cheat. Players (good players) always tell me there's some advantage to certain Internet Cafes in Japan, or there's some kind of advantage to certain players they can't explain. But you know, that's all story this and no evidence that. I don't really care. All I want to know if how the servers register a hit. If I knew how the servers registered hits, I could adapt and change my tactics. The problem is, it's not the same for everyone.
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 291	Posted - 2015.01.11 11:24:00 - [4] - Quote i don't have the best of connections but its not bad either. sometimes ill be watching a couple of players and one is moving normally - the other doing small warps from place to place, so almost impossible to hit. the longer the range the more problems i find i have, on my alt i have the RR and its seems that its either highly effective or no use at all depending who i am shooting at. needless to say i don't have one point in it on my main as a result. anyway most of the times i play at NA times although i am EU due to my times of work, which could be part of the problem. saying that i have never had a rage mail about me glitching so i don't think its me
pumping up Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2015.01.11 11:56:00 - [5] - Quote I lnow what you mean. Ill keep a look out for it now.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1717	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:17:00 - [6] - Quote Sudog Northmead wrote: Here's the thing: people could learn to lead their shots. But the god-***ed audible feedback mechanism INDICATES THAT I AM HITTING THEM. WHY IS IT DOING THAT IF I AM NOT. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ADAPT IF THE ONLY INDICATION OF HOW FAR AHEAD I'M SUPPOSED TO LEAD MY OPPONENT IS WHETHER I DIE AFTER A 30-SECOND FIREFIGHT? That really is the thing. Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7015	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:34:00 - [7] - Quote I'll say something more later and edit this post though I will say this. V-E-X is a punk. He lags more than most players in the game and absolutely refuses to fight one versus one. I tried to fight his proto scout with my militia scout and he ran for the hills. He didn't even comeback until he had his proto Assault and three friends with him. I killed him three times in one game and he was so surprised by it that he felt the need to send me mail telling me how he hadn't been killed because of skill but that I had gotten lucky [:roll]. I have noticed that most players who are benefitting from lag are usually top tier players because since they have an automatic advantage they tend to rise through the cranks quickly. Anyways there is something that truly annoys me and that is that there are players who can't be shot at all. Not even slightly. This is odd because if you shoot any other player in the match they will die as expected. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 7015	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:35:00 - [8] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Sudog Northmead wrote: Here's the thing: people could learn to lead their shots. But the god-***ed audible feedback mechanism INDICATES THAT I AM HITTING THEM. WHY IS IT DOING THAT IF I AM NOT. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ADAPT IF THE ONLY INDICATION OF HOW FAR AHEAD I'M SUPPOSED TO LEAD MY OPPONENT IS WHETHER I DIE AFTER A 30-SECOND FIREFIGHT? That really is the thing. We are on dedicated servers so not everyone lags equally. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
CrotchGrab 360 Yon Hyaku Nijuu Moyase 1905	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:41:00 - [9] - Quote I was playing LOADOUT on PS4 yesterday, I got a message saying "your internet connection has become too slow to keep up with internet traffic", then it kicked me out of the game. I was actually happy for that, why doesn't it happen in DUST? Because then games would be half empty....... Don't Be A Scrub, Gimme A Sub!
Skullmiser Vulcansu 237	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:50:00 - [10] - Quote I have had this problem several times. It's not often, but it is obvious when I'm using a weapon with a low fire rate like the breach scrambler pistol. I clearly see the person being hit without taking damage. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.

LAVALLOIS Nash 405	Posted - 2015.01.11 17:09:00 - [11] - Quote Sudog Northmead wrote: Been playing since.. I dunno. One of the Betas, either open or closed. Who gives a ***. I've been playing FPS games since Duke Nukem and Quake. (The original Quake.) And Unreal Tournament. (The original Unreal Tournament.) In those old Quake levels, E1M7, any of the DM levels, and .. well basically any level, really, I'm the guy that people thought was a bot. I'm the guy who could rocket jump without a macro and while in the air, shoot an open doorway that a guy was about to appear in, trimp down the hallway, change direction in mid-air, and polish someone off with an axe just for flourish. But you know? I get it. People who were modem players sucked not because they sucked, but because on average their reflexes couldn't keep up. I'm sure it was super annoying for them. I'm sure. Oh how I miss Quake. I loved it as vanilla in 1999, but as mods like RA3 got added and such, then Quake Live came out later in the decade. Rocketjumping is the most free feeling of tyravelling down the map. Plus prediction rockets, mid air rail shots, plasma gun wall climbs. It might not have been the most popular, but ive never played a more solidly bolted together game. They seriously dont code things like they used to. Sudog Northmead wrote: So Quake's logic wasn't great, but it was simple, and it was predictable. When you were 100ms slower than your opponent, you were at a disadvantage because of the slight delay in your ability to respond. LPB, as they are called, got their name in part from Quake. (Well, and Netrek, but still.) So what, you learn to spam with the rocket launcher.. the great equalizer, and you didn't bother pulling out the Shaft. And so here's the thing. in Dust514, I'm really god*ed tired of something I've been seeing for a really long time, and that is this: the hit logic is unbalanced either in favour of players with low ping, or in favour of players with high ping. I don't yet know which, because I assumed that if I built a lagswitch for my router I'd eventually be caught and benned. Obviously this assumption is wrong. I have a ridiculously overpowered cable modem. I have 100+Mbps connectivity, and a 40ms ping to San Diego. I am not capped. I am not QoS'd. I pay a huge monthly bill for unmetered internet. I just came out of a battle where someone named V-E-X popped out of his cloak with Ishukone Nova Knives; I spotted him, and emptied almost half a clip into his face while he jumped around and failed with his novas. I could hear the god-*ed tinking of the bullets hitting as I was firing them.* I could SEE his shields flashing blue! What I didn't see was his shield meter budge. Like not even a sliver. When he finally did kill me, I'd had enough. This has been a small problem in the past, but lately it's become intolerable. What. The. ***. CCP, I WISH* you would explain what the ** is going on, and whether I need to start leading someone with my gun or not, because whatever is going on, a huge number of so-called "good" players aren't ing taking any damage while I'm sitting there unloading full clips of CreoDron Breach Assault in their BACKS. Entire squads of internet cafe jerks appear to be either gaming your ***** hit logic, or magically benefitting from a ping advantage. Here's the thing: people could learn to lead their shots. But the god-***ed audible feedback mechanism INDICATES THAT I AM HITTING THEM. WHY IS IT DOING THAT IF I AM NOT. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ADAPT IF THE ONLY INDICATION OF HOW FAR AHEAD I'M SUPPOSED TO LEAD MY OPPONENT IS WHETHER I DIE AFTER A 30-SECOND FIREFIGHT? I think its favored for players with a high ping. My internet is generally pretty stellar, and my ping is low on games that let me check it. I live in Montreal and I can ping 70ms to LA on most days. When im up against someone who has a name that heavily implies they are Canadian or American, hit registration works pretty well, the shots we trade register, and if its a close fight, one of us dies with 30HP armor remaining. There is no rubber band lag either. However, when i go up against anyone with a Mexican or Brazil sounding name, alot of the time there is rubber band lag. And this is where hit detection is absolutely out of whack. Youll come up on the side of a player like this, pour 15-20 direct hits with an automatic weapon, not much health removed inspite of hit markers, then they turn at you after a second of this happening and you die in 3 shots. Ive recorded a few games where this happened and I was able to go watch the replay in slow motion....its ridiculous. In the slow motion replay, im closing in, aiming....he still has no idea im there....pow.....pow...pow......the shots leave the gun and trace right into his character, generating sparks and noise. No heath is lost until the 5th shot that hits, then it goes down by about 30, goes down a little more, now hes turning to face me....before my clip is emptied, 3 shots trace from his gun that barely even pointed at me (aim assist) and my health just plummets till my screen turns grey.
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 75	Posted - 2015.01.11 18:34:00 - [12] - Quote Hit detection is unbalanced and exploited and broken.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 3062	Posted - 2015.01.11 18:55:00 - [13] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Sudog Northmead wrote: Here's the thing: people could learn to lead their shots. But the god-***ed audible feedback mechanism INDICATES THAT I AM HITTING THEM. WHY IS IT DOING THAT IF I AM NOT. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO ADAPT IF THE ONLY INDICATION OF HOW FAR AHEAD I'M SUPPOSED TO LEAD MY OPPONENT IS WHETHER I DIE AFTER A 30-SECOND FIREFIGHT? That really is the thing. That is a problem with how the Server updates your client. AKA Net Code. Which has always been a problem in DUST. Otherwise CCP Autopings every at 200 ping... Even if you live next door to their servers you are getting 200 ping... Ofcourse you could be more laggy then 200? CCP Did hit detection server side. So it isn't my client talking to your client on where are characters are and what we have done... It is my DUST Client talking to CCP's proxy server.... That then talks to your client.... And puts the information together. More often then not.... Where you are standing in the map on your client... Is in a completely different location on CCP servers and is even worse for a different location on your opponents client... This is often why we get skipping and enemies that don't move fluid... Because the server is chugging away updating our clients extremely poorly. Net code, Hit detection, Aiming system..... The Fundamental mechanics to building a solid FPS Game... And CCP Shanghai spend more time showing off their fancy lighting effects then their ability to build a solid FPS game first.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1458	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:25:00 - [14] - Quote I was pretty skeptical about many of these posts about hit detection but the other day I was playing CalAssault and I was getting the benefit of it. I ran around a corner and five guys were pointing their weapons right at me. I strafed an fired and started killing them. I know they should have been killed me, I could hear the bullets all around me and I could tell they had me in their sights, I just wasn't taking hardly any damage. This lasted for a couple of games. It had nothing to do with my skill. Because, that's why.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5434	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:55:00 - [15] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: I was playing LOADOUT on PS4 yesterday, I got a message saying "your internet connection has become too slow to keep up with internet traffic", then it kicked me out of the game. I was actually happy for that, why doesn't it happen in DUST? Because then games would be half empty....... Games do that nowadays?!?! THERE'S HOPE!!!


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