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Is it me or Swarm Launchers are ridiculous?

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Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 450	Posted - 2015.01.10 19:10:00 - [1] - Quote The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 451	Posted - 2015.01.10 19:32:00 - [2] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. -_- Pleez... Vehicle: -Watch out for red installations -Hear a swarm (or just get hit by the silent invisible ones)- get to good cover (can't effectively fight back) -Shield booster, hardener, afterburner, nitro injector activation -Vehicles also need proper positioning (ie. cover) Swarmer: -Proper positioning -Getting ganked by infantry (so does all other infantry) -Timing of swarms I don't get it. A swarmer complains that they get killed by infantry, even though willingly doing it just to kill a tank that really can only kill idiots standing still or people that don't have cover (which can still be killed faster with a light weapon). Why is the hate for tanks so god damn high? If I don't pull out AV, 90% of the time nobody else will. My options are to either pull out AV and run the risk of getting killed by infantry, or stay in my current suit and get killed by the vehicle(s). Lol. Don't give me any of that "tanks can only kill idiots" bull. Have you ever gone up against a decent Madrugar, or even worse, a Gunnlogi? How about multiple types of vehicles? Swarms aren't nearly as effective as other types of AV when you're between a fustercluck of vehicles and infantry. Edit: Installations? Seriously? Rocks are more effective, and they can't be destroyed. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 452	Posted - 2015.01.10 19:42:00 - [3] - Quote Pagl1u M wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. I dont know if you are trolling or being serious anyway. 1 proper position: do you mean being able to stand still? Cause that's the proper position you need. 2 has to worry about getting ganked: you just need the incredible skill to stay near your friends. 3 while trying not to get killed by the pilot: land an hit on that pilot and he'll make a damn barrel roll, good luck to him on his try to aim you. What does the swarmer have to do? Press R1, stay near friends. What does the pilot have to do? Fly the damn dropship, find the swarmer between all the players, aim at you while flying, try to not crash into every wall or into the ground because of your missiles, maybe activate a couple of modules. Seems fine. Stand still.... Nice. Stand still while I'm taking possible fire from an ADS or an HAV. Do you even use swarms? The fact that you think MLT swarms are some type of super-weapon is leading me to believe otherwise. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 452	Posted - 2015.01.10 19:54:00 - [4] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: If I don't pull out AV, 90% of the time nobody else will. My options are to either pull out AV and run the risk of getting killed by infantry, or stay in my current suit and get killed by the vehicle(s). Lol. Don't give me any of that "tanks can only kill idiots" bull. Have you ever gone up against a decent Madrugar, or even worse, a Gunnlogi? How about multiple types of vehicles? Swarms aren't nearly as effective as other types of AV when you're between a fustercluck of vehicles and infantry. If you say you're good at positioning, then how are you getting killed by tanks? Have you tried getting on a elevated surface? Because hills are pretty good cover. So are roofs believe it or not, at least from tanks. And if you are getting killed by multiple vehicles, well you should be. Its like saying "i can't solo three or four guys easily with an AR," because, well, you weren't intended to. I only called people standing still idiots, because it's probably true. And, as I said, people out in the open should get wrecked by a tank, swarmer or not. Also, i'm glad to know that you know that you are sacrificing anti-infantry for AV, which is how it should be. It's kind of hard to find a hill or an elevated position in a city, which is where most vehicles will be found. Camping one area with swarms is a terrible tactic. All it takes is for the vehicle to get out of my 175m of range, which is relatively easy btw, and I become useless while Mr. L33t pilot can proceed with his slaughter. Movement is key in a V vs AV battle. As I've stated before, If you aren't out in an open field, swarms are easy to avoid. Turn a corner and watch as the missles smash into a building. Also, I rarely get killed by tanks. 1.7 made me an expert tank dodger Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 453	Posted - 2015.01.10 20:28:00 - [5] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: It's kind of hard to find a hill or an elevated position in a city, which is where most vehicles will be found. Camping one area with swarms is a terrible tactic. All it takes is for the vehicle to get out of my 175m of range, which is relatively easy btw, and I become useless while Mr. L33t pilot can proceed with his slaughter. Movement is key in a V vs AV battle. As I've stated before, If you aren't out in an open field, swarms are easy to avoid. Turn a corner and watch as the missles smash into a building. Also, I rarely get killed by tanks. 1.7 made me an expert tank dodger In those cases, then, swarms should not be used. AV at that point should then switch over to PLCs, giving them decent Anti-infantry capability wile retaining AV capability. But heck, who am I to say that AV needs to switch fits to best reflect the situation at hand, or dare say that AV must use a weapon that uses skill. Also, how much of a slaughter does Mr. 1337 actually do? 10-1, ending the match with 500-600 WP? Mr. 1337's level of slaughter is relative to his skill as a pilot. So it's fine to use FGs and PLCs and other AV in the city, because they take "skill", but swarms shouldn't be used? How fair. The FG also outclasses it out in the open. Have you dedicated yourself to using swarms? It's not a cakewalk, on the contrary to popular belief. Swarms have been nerfed repeatedly, and yet pilots still complain. I give you a valid weakness of the SL, and your answer is "pull out a PLC". How does that empower the SL? It doesn't. My only option is to completely stop using it even though it's never been stated anywhere that SLs aren't supposed to be used in contested areas. God forbid I try to use an AV weapon for AV Swarms are only truly deadly when damage modded on a PRO Min Commando. Until the day comes that the Min Commando becomes FoTM, any complaints about Swarms are complete ***. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum*!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 459	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:09:00 - [6] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Mr. 1337's level of slaughter is relative to his skill as a pilot. So it's fine to use FGs and PLCs and other AV in the city, because they take "skill", but swarms shouldn't be used? How fair. The FG also outclasses it out in the open. Have you dedicated yourself to using swarms? It's not a cakewalk, on the contrary to popular belief. Swarms have been nerfed repeatedly, and yet pilots still complain. I give you a valid weakness of the SL, and your answer is "pull out a PLC". How does that empower the SL? It doesn't. My only option is to completely stop using it even though it's never been stated anywhere that SLs aren't supposed to be used in contested areas. God forbid I try to use an AV weapon for AV Swarms are only truly deadly when damage modded on a PRO Min Commando. Until the day comes that the Min Commando becomes FoTM, any complaints about Swarms are complete ***. Just to make myself clear, I never said that swarms were OP, just overly effective for the skill used to operate them. As a "dedicated AVer," I would think one's strategy would be more than just shoot away with one type of weapon the entire match. After all, for shield tanks, one should use a Plasma Cannon, in an engagement that is in a city, one should use something more effective for the situation (proxies, remotes, AV nades, PLC). And yes, my answer should be if the swarm is weak in one respect use something that is more suited to the situation at hand. Thus, my answer should be the PLC. It's never been stated that SLs can't be used in contested areas because it is possible, just not viable. You said it yourself. This isn't just about the SL, it's about the fact that in 90% of all engagements, swarm launchers are used instead of PLC or Forge. Why is it? Maybe it is more effective than the other options? Maybe it's easy to use? A combo??? I don't get why AV is so focused on the Swarm Launcher, and keeping that viable. Swarm Launcher nerf? Shiii, better keep the SL alive because it is the only easy, effective way to counter vehicles. One does not see, however, that there are other AV options. The popular belief is that SLs take much less skill because they lack one of the requirements of the other AV weapons, which is decent aim. The SL may not require aim per se, but it has tons of other skillfull requirements in order to properly destroy other vehicles. I rarely see Swarms that aren't PRO tier, yet I see FGs of all types. Starter fit SLs are a non factor. Swarms are most commonly used due to 1. New players are introduced to them first with the Anti-Armor fit. As useless as it is for higher tiered vehicles, it's still somewhat useful against LAVs and such. 2. Swarms can be fit on a wider variety of suits. Think: why properly spec into a heavy suit and have to lug around a Forge gun when you can fit your Wyrkomi swarms on a med or light frame and go to work? It's less effective, but it's fine for chasing away that pesky ADS or HAV. Swarms don't even have the killing power of other types of AV. Who would you like to have on your side? Two PRO forge gunners, or two PRO SL users? Ehh knowing you, you would rather have two PLCers. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum*!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 460	Posted - 2015.01.10 21:45:00 - [7] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The popular belief is that SLs take much less skill because they lack one of the requirements of the other AV weapons, which is decent aim. The SL may not require aim per se, but it has tons of other skillfull requirements in order to properly destroy other vehicles. I rarely see Swarms that aren't PRO tier, yet I see FGs of all types. Starter fit SLs are a non factor. Swarms are most commonly used due to 1. New players are introduced to them first with the Anti-Armor fit. As useless as it is for higher tiered vehicles, it's still somewhat useful against LAVs and such. 2. Swarms can be fit on a wider variety of suits. Think: why properly spec into a heavy suit and have to lug around a Forge gun when you can fit your Wyrkomi swarms on a med or light frame and go to work? It's less effective, but it's fine for chasing away that pesky ADS or HAV. Swarms don't even have the killing power of other types of AV. Who would you like to have on your side? Two PRO forge gunners, or two PRO SL users? Ehh knowing you, you would rather have two PLCers. Pssh... Do you think the other forms of AV don't require these skills? Add Aiming while using these skills and the other skills are much harder. As for #2, if you can fit the SL onto a wider variety of suits, and you claim this is why the SL is more effective, than why isn't the PLC used at least sometimes against HAVs, even if it's a shield based one? Oh yeah, because swarms are more effective due to aiming not being needed, with no particular drawbacks. As for your last point, what if the 2 SL users had a commando suit? And also, it wouldn't matter, as the tank or dropship would be dead anyway. However, I would choose the swarms as with the forges, I run the risk of one of them missing the vehicle. You also run the risk of the vehicle escaping you're 175m of range, whereas the Forge gunners are good up to 300m. You also run the risk of your missiles running into terrain, which is equivalent to missing. The missiles are also much slower than a FG shot, increasing the odds of your pray escaping. Swarms on a Min Commando are a completely different story. Actually, it's the only way to use SLs to their full potential. How is this in any way lacking of skill? And have you forgotten that PLCs get a damage buff on Gal Commandos? They aren't overshadowed by SLs. They are much more effective towards shield vehicles, along with the fact that they have a more balanced damage profile. I guess people aren't as open to them because they were a laughing stock for a year. Did you use them before the buff? Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 460	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:49:00 - [8] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: You also run the risk of the vehicle escaping you're 175m of range, whereas the Forge gunners are good up to 300m. You also run the risk of your missiles running into terrain, which is equivalent to missing. The missiles are also much slower than a FG shot, increasing the odds of your pray escaping. Swarms on a Min Commando are a completely different story. Actually, it's the only way to use SLs to their full potential. How is this in any way lacking of skill? And have you forgotten that PLCs get a damage buff on Gal Commandos? They aren't overshadowed by SLs. They are much more effective towards shield vehicles, along with the fact that they have a more balanced damage profile. I guess people aren't as open to them because they were a laughing stock for a year. Did you use them before the buff? Edit: Nevermind. PLCs don't get that damage buff. I was under the impression that it did. Swarms only lock on at 175 meters. However, once the swarms are away, how far do you think the swarms go? 400-500 meters? How many salvos can you get off before the vehicle notices? Also, with forges, not only do you have to aim, you have to aim at where you think the vehicle will be in the time it takes for the shot to travel. It's called leading, something swarmers don't have to worry about. Also, if you don't think PLCs are overshadowed, tell me the last time you saw one actively engaging in competitive gameplay against vehicles. Travel range is 400m. Irrelevant to HAVs, thanks to the turn speed nerfs making it so that turning a corner causes your missiles to crash into the nearest building. ADS can activate afterburners, or fly to the flight ceiling. I don't get the kill, and he doesn't lose his ADS. At most, you'll get two salvos off against any pilot that isn't brain dead. After that, they zoom away. See, to be a successful Swarmer, you have to predict the path of your missiles in order to minimize the chance of losing salvos to a wall. It's different from leading, yet it doesn't take less skill. Mashing the R1 button and releasing every volley in short order doesn't work on decent people. Lack of use compared to other weapons Gëá being underpowered or overshadowed. The fact that the ScR is probably the least used rifle doesn't mean the other rifles overshadow it. It has its pros and cons, and it succeeds where other rifles have a tough time, just like the PLC and the SL. As I said before, the PLC was a joke for over a year. People aren't quick to spend SP on a weapon with such a reputation. Also, anecdotal evidence hardly suffices as real evidence. I could easily tell you about the times when my SL failed to kill a vehicle regardless of how much I prepped, but does it get me anywhere? No. It makes me look narcissistic talking about my own experiences without any actual facts. Me this, me that. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 466	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:29:00 - [9] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Edit: You never answered my question. Did you use PLCs before the buff? Sure I did. Why? I'm glad. I'm sure you remember how terrible they were. Considering the majority of the playerbase doesn't visit the forums, I doubt they know it isn't laughable anymore. That and it's more expensive than a SL, especially at PRO tier. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 475	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:09:00 - [10] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: That and it's more expensive than a SL, especially at PRO tier. Are you sure? I'm pretty sure every weapon of equal meta level is the same price now... Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher: 28,2845 ISK Allotek Plasma Cannon: 47,220 ISK Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!

Cheydinhal Guard Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 475	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:11:00 - [11] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: The swarmer also needs proper positioning, and he also has to worry about getting ganked by infantry, all while trying not to get killed by the pilot. What does the pilot have to do? Turn a corner. Not that I'm complaining, but swarms aren't the skill-less god-mode AV weapon that some people make them out to be. wow....so are you really implying that it takes more skill to use swarm launchers than ADS??? Is this the sort of player thinking that I'm up against every time that I post on the forums? I'm not implying anything of the sort. I'm simply stating the Swarm Launcher's obvious weakness. Don't get so worked up over a simple statement. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!

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