DUST Search - Questioning Scout Bandwidth

Kaze Eyrou wrote:

Clone D wrote:

...and yet logis still claim that there are a shortage of logis...

When was this ever stated?

Breakin Stuff wrote:

The logi numbers problem will settle itself if the suit is made less squishy. Which is, to my knowledge, on the table.

Active support play is wildly unpopular.

If you want to have lots of equipment on the field then play a logi and quit complaining that they are now under-represented now that the tourist toilet was flushed.

As logis become more critical and in demand more players will skill in and use them.

A lot of old logis quit the role entirely because anything they could do assaults or scouts could do better.

I disagree with the claim that support game play is "widely unpopular". I see many people who come into the game finding out about the support playstyle and actively asking about it on Rookie Training Grounds. Many admit their gungame and 1v1 skills aren't that great and vouch to support their team in other ways.

I've been a Logi since the Uprising respec, and recently skilled into all the racial Logis as well as a couple of other roles. Those roles are very much situational, but I will still continue to use my Logistics suits in battle because support play is my favorite role in the battle. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I've been a Logi and I'm still a Logi and I'm still around. All those other "Logis" you mentioned were either posers and/or Slayer Logis whose era of slaying was up when Logistics became more and more of a supportive role.


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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5073	Posted - 2015.01.08 15:35:00 - [1] - Quote We get it. You want to keep running your ~~scout~~ do everything light assault suit that makes everyone else obsolete. Scout 514 FTW. But, I'm just gonna focus on this statement, because it makes nonsense. Clone D wrote: [quote=Ripley Riley]The meta has settled. If the meta has settled, and yet logis still claim that there are a shortage of logis, then this ABSOLUTELY needs to be addressed by loosening up the bandwidth constraints.[/quote} If you loosen the constraints, allowing non-logistics suits to use a lot of EQ again, by what possible logic or reason would that result in more people becoming logis? There's absolutely no way that would be the result. You can't possibly be suggesting that some fundamental shift has happened, and despite ample historical data, the Dust playerbase needs significantly more than a month to adjust to a change in the meta? Especially since unlimited on-demand respecs are now a thing. Honestly, I'm not even sure which is more preposterous, the sudden inability of people to adjust, or that a "transitional period" which means they dont have to adjust, would get them to do it. Seriously, just stop. It's getting sad. If you want to advocate for lower BW for RE's or something, go for it. But the QQ about your scout suit not being able to do everything by itself is tiresome /thread. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5075	Posted - 2015.01.08 15:59:00 - [2] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: The meta has settled. If the meta has settled, and yet logis still claim that there are a shortage of logis, then this ABSOLUTELY needs to be addressed by loosening up the bandwidth constraints. If you loosen the constraints, allowing non-logistics suits to use a lot of EQ again, by what possible logic or reason would that result in more people becoming logis? If you are stating that the meta has settled, and logis also state that there aren't enough logis, then that implies one of two things: EITHER 1. the meta has not settled, and more people will soon spec into logi once they get tired of running out of ammo or spawning from the redline. OR 2. Logi suits are in desperate need of a revamp. FTFY. More importantly, I'll restate my actual point: In none of these scenarios would giving scout suits more BW result in a proliferation of logis. (Also: Would not happen in any other possible scenario that does not involve living on Bizarro world.). (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5075	Posted - 2015.01.08 16:08:00 - [3] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Clone D wrote: ...and yet logis still claim that there are a shortage of logis... When was this ever stated? Breakin Stuff wrote: The logi numbers problem will settle itself if the suit is made less squishy. Which is, to my knowledge, on the table. Active support play is wildly unpopular. If you want to have lots of equipment on the field then play a logi and quit complaining that they are now under-represented now that the tourist toilet was flushed. As logis become more critical and in demand more players will skill in and use them. A lot of old logis quit the role entirely because anything they could do assaults or scouts could do better. I disagree with the claim that support game play is "widely unpopular". I see many people who come into the game finding out about the support playstyle and actively asking about it on Rookie Training Grounds. Many admit their gungame and 1v1 skills aren't that great and vouch to support their team in other ways. I've been a Logi since the Uprising respec, and recently skilled into all the racial Logis as well as a couple of other roles. Those roles are very much situational, but I will still continue to use my Logistics suits in battle because support play is my favorite role in the battle. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I've been a Logi and I'm still a Logi and I'm still around. All those other "Logis" you mentioned were either posers and/or Slayer Logis whose era of slaying was up when Logistics became more and more of a supportive role. I agree to an extent. Yes, a lot of the old early uprising logis were not really logis. Just FoTM chasers. But, I maintain that the major problem is still the limitations of the suits themselves. Even with BW there is enough incentive to use other suits that people would probably prefer having fewer uplinks than running a suit that has the awesome combination of being squishy/less effective in combat while also being more expensive (in terms of both SP and ISK). (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5077	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:13:00 - [4] - Quote Clone D wrote: That is the problem. *You are bent on making more people do what they obviously don't want to do: play logi.* There is a natural balance, and bw is offsetting the player base by attempting to shift more people into the logi role, whereas the players don't want to perform that role and you end up with all red letters and no friendly uplinks because there is no role transference, which essentially is agreed upon by the community, that all roles support each other, hence we all need a little spare bw to give a buffer between the role we want to play and the tad bit of team support that each person must contribute in order to run a successful team. One, see my response above about the logi suits themselves. Two, I'm absolutely not interested in forcing people to play logi. Quite the opposite. I'm going to take your advice and use some extreme language and abrasive opinion to make my point more clear (wall of text incoming), so fair warning that I'm going to be less civilized than usual: *Get the fck out of my role! What I AM bent on is getting rewarded again for doing what I've always done, which is tactical support and map control. I used to be pretty damn good at it too, until every map turned into a massive blue sea of sh!t uplinks dropped by fcking EQ spam logi tourists* who crapped them out in the middle of the road or some tailor-made-for-spawn-camping dead end (facing the damn corner, no less) on their way to the supply depot so they could switch into their l33t cloaked shotty scout or HMG sentinel (complete with fatty taxi). Or before doucheb@gs would spawn on the expertly placed Amarr-bonused uplink I expended a ton of effort (and possibly died) trying to place and then put not one, but TWO of their mlt uplinks literally right on top of mine, which provides no tactical advantage and for which there is no purpose other than to steal my WP because anything that would destroy my uplink would get theirs too. They deserve a special place in hell. I'm bent on stopping these fcks from taking my role away from me. I'm bent on getting paid for all the time, effort, SP, and ISK I've put in to uplinks, Amarr logi suits, situational fittings, learning the maps, finding the best spots, constantly watching the map, and developing ways to counter the possible tactics of the other team by always having places to spawn which allow a rally point for a counter-attack, reinforcement of failing lines, etc. That alone would not uncommonly turn the tide of battles and I would be rightly rewarded with over a thousand WP from uplinks alone in tight matches. That may sound like a lot, but remember, I devoted the majority of my time making sure we always had uplinks and studying the map and enemy movement. Back then I could look at the map and actually tell which uplinks were mine* Running around shooting things on the same 4 maps and the same 3 game modes over and over and over bored me to tears; this was the thing that kept me interested in Dust, the intellectual challenge of countering the enemy without needing to be the FC. Or even in a highly organized squad. The logi tourist a-holes and self-proclaimed "Solo omni super soldiers" took that away from me. The game got old even faster and I've hardly played for months because of it. Oh, but how selfish of me! How dare I want to be able to enjoy and be more effective at my primary specialty than someone in a completely different one! So... TL;DR:Oh, I'm sorry, did BW make it slightly harder to do #4 on the list of roles you "play", the one you don't like enough to actually specialize in but manage to do on the side? The one I love but couldn't do anymore because you ruined it by doing that? Here, let me get you a tissue... (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5078	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:20:00 - [5] - Quote Clone D wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Clone D wrote: look guys I've discovered a trick that's been in use since the beta test doors first opened! I R SMRT Confirming that you have successfully learned a new trick. Bane did a FTFY in order to avoid actually following an argument to conclusion. I was simply responding to the gimpiness. And most eloquently, at that. (Pro tip: It's not misrepresentation of your statement if clearly labeled as edited by the person quoting it..) Your argument was flawed and the solution completely unrelated to the problem it allegedly aimed to address. I didn't need to follow it any further. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5080	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:54:00 - [6] - Quote Clone D wrote: These are reasonable concerns, and I'm glad you are seeking intellectual challenge. However, if tourist logis were setting uplinks in the middle of the roads, then why didn't you put your uplinks in a more desirable position so that people would opt to use your uplinks instead of the tourist logi uplinks? I did. They still get lost in the sea of blue on the map, hampering both my ability to replace them and for others to figure out the "best" one to use... it's unecessarily diffcult to see where an uplink is in 3 dimensions on the respawn screen. Clone D wrote: There's no reason to put a hamper on everyone else's play style because you were upset. . lolwut? Pot call kettle black much? First off, MY playstyle was the one being marginalized for nearly a year. Nobody's stopping anyone from using EQ, you just need to use a logi suit to gain maximal efficacy. Don't waste everyone's time trying to make logis look like the selfish ones, that is an argument you can't possibly win anywhere but in your own mind. Second, upset vs unable to perform my preferred role are not the same things. I have a life, and don't need to be on the top of the leaderboard so I can wave my epeen. Loss of WP is annoying but hardly a deal-breaker... No longer enjoying the game because of this was. Clone D wrote: Just figure out a way to play your role smarter and better. I did But you can't now because....? (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)