DUST Search - CCP, A way to "balance" matchmaking

deezy dabest wrote:

Alex-ZX wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

Alex-ZX wrote:

deezy dabest wrote:

This sounds like a broken mechanic waiting to happen aside from the multitude of additional problems.

50 Million SP vets running mlitias all day exploiting their core skill advantage over newbs and a horrible division of our already small player base are the first two issues that come to mind.

well in this case after you hit a certain amount of sp you won't play militia, standard, advance etc, so you stay into your sp level
also keep the same ambush. if someone else wants to play as it is right now.

Then you get into squad formation including or excluding people based on if they are blocked or not.

At this point I think they should just make matchmaking out right random because obviously CCP did not hear a single one of us that said we do not want Scotty to decide matches before hand.

If we don't speak directly and with numbers, they will never listen us, so we need to make it in this way. if it is a good idea that many approve I'm sure CCP will do something about it.
thanks for comment.

I agree putting forth a proposal would be the most constructive way to go about it.

Personally I do not feel that numbers have a place in matchmaking in this game. The playerbase is so small and divided in SP / experience that all numbers are going to do is continue to create one sided matches.

Pure random team building possibly with the inclusion of dividing it into two queues of high level vets and novices / newbies really is the best thing we could have right now in my opinion. Matching the chaos that is our player base with chaos in matchmaking would at least make exciting battles take place from time to time as well as encourage squad building as a necessity to be able to handle what may or may not be thrown at you.

The number one thing that should be in mind when creating whatever system comes about is that scotty CAN NOT decide matches for us.

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Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 119	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:13:00 - [1] - Quote I-¦ve been seeing many people that is p"-+$% with the matchmaking since 1.9, also many posts saying that ban advance gear in pubs. the way i see it, or a way to "balance" matchmaking is really simple, also i believe it will be able to fix many actual "issues" that I'll explain in its proper time, without further preamble. My main idea is to make matchmaking based in meta level. (how?) in one easy way to see it. Change for example ambush with the next bases: Militia ambush Standard ambush Advance ambush Pro ambush OFFICER ambush As we all can see, every item has its own meta level, militia dropsuits have 0, some militia weapons have 0, some moduls also have 0 meta level, (NOTE, there are some equipment things that have 1, also some weapons) so by adding all the points that many items give you in MILITIA ambush, you will be able to only use suits that have something like a meta level of 0 to 3, more or less (this because of some weapons or equipment) Standard ambush, the game will be in the same way we will have to plus something like a maximum and a minimum meta level lets say 3 to 8 or something like that, (how would you add all meta points?) easy way to do a really basic math, most of modules (weapons to) have 1 meta level, so for example in a Gallente scout (std) we have 1 high powered slot, 1 light, 1 sidearm,1 grenade slot, 2 equipment, and 3 low powered slots, so in that case we can have a meta level of 1 to 10 meta supposing that we used all the slots only with standard modules (NOTE, if you watched the math properly 1 to 10 meta points, is because there are some standard weapons that have a meta level of 2) Advance ambush, the same mechanic will apply here, just advance modules with advance weapons (Note, some modules will need a change of meta level, for example enhance shield extenders doesn't have the same meta level as enhance armor repair) with the same mechanic we need a minimum amount of meta points and a maximum amount of meta points because some roles will need a higher amount of tolerance, for example logistics are able to carry many modules, in other words higher amount of meta points, so depending in dropsuits there is going to be a higher number or a lower, depending in the amount of stuff that you can use. Pro ambush, same mechanic here, a maximum and a minimum. OFFICER ambush, I'm still thinking how this one will work, because first we need more officer stuff, we already have some weapons and a suit, as u can see their meta level is 10, so we will need new dropsuits and modules. I'll explain the idea of it a little bit below. Along with all of this there are some other issues that many say "-+$%& it, for example payment after games, some others say "-+$%& to the salvage after a public game, so let's take a look about how it'll work. As you can see with the META level ambush, there's a risk vs reward things that i believe need a tweak in DUST 514, because in my opinion they are nonexistent. in Militia ambush there's nothing to risk, in other words i would say that in here we need a payment of 130,000 isk (for example) and a salvage rate of 25% (maybe a little bit less, like actual ambush, there's not too much to lose) Standard ambush, also there's not too much to lose, so, 160,000 isk payment and a salvage of 28% (again, for example) Advance ambush, it has a little bit more to lose, so, i would say 200,000 isk payment and a salvage rate of 40% Pro ambush, it has a lot of risk because we are talking about suits that will reach over 210,000 isk value, so i would say that the payment is "going to be" 600,000 to 800,000 isk with a salvage rate of 60% OFFICER ambush, in its proper time to "release" i believe the risk is "extreme for some people" so the payment will be 1,000,000 isk in case that you do not die in battle, or in case you died a salvage of the same amount of modules that you lost in battle, (for example, your suit had 15 officer modules, you will recover 15 modules, they could be the same that you used, or others from the another players that died in the game. in other words a salvage rate of 100% in case you died in battle) as i said i do not have the main idea well grounded, because we don't have the technology the salvage of 100% is because everyone keeps their officer weapons in chests that will never be opened, because we don't want to lose our officer weapons. (most of us don't) As a last thing, i believe this basic idea will be something good to add into the game because many are tired of a bad matchmaking, so if i am a new player i just want to play with people with my same level, in this case will be militia. At least with this idea you won't be able to say "i got militia stomped" or "nerf militia, it is op", you will face the level of dificult that you fell better to you, if you feel that standard is your best position, you will fight in standard ambush, if you feel that prototype is where your skills are, jump into prototype ambush. NOTE, I just post about ambush because is a basic game that everyone at some point wants to play to make isk faster NOTE 2, i you don't have a dropsuit with the proper meta points you won't be able to spawn. ( your suits will be in red) at this point i have said almost all my idea of how to "balance" matchmaking, of course there are some things that need a tweak, I'll post the here whenever the idea hits me. if you like this idea please give it a like and comment, so others will see it, if you don't like it please comment why you don't like it and I'll try to find a logic answer to the issue. if you will post nonsense things please save your comments. i want this post to be serious.Fell free to change some numbers if you think they aren't good, in your opinion. Have a nice hunt out there. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1725	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:16:00 - [2] - Quote This sounds like a broken mechanic waiting to happen aside from the multitude of additional problems. 50 Million SP vets running mlitias all day exploiting their core skill advantage over newbs and a horrible division of our already small player base are the first two issues that come to mind.
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 119	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:19:00 - [3] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: This sounds like a broken mechanic waiting to happen aside from the multitude of additional problems. 50 Million SP vets running mlitias all day exploiting their core skill advantage over newbs and a horrible division of our already small player base are the first two issues that come to mind. well in this case after you hit a certain amount of sp you won't play militia, standard, advance etc, so you stay into your sp level also keep the same ambush. if someone else wants to play as it is right now. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1726	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:21:00 - [4] - Quote Alex-ZX wrote: deezy dabest wrote: This sounds like a broken mechanic waiting to happen aside from the multitude of additional problems. 50 Million SP vets running mlitias all day exploiting their core skill advantage over newbs and a horrible division of our already small player base are the first two issues that come to mind. well in this case after you hit a certain amount of sp you won't play militia, standard, advance etc, so you stay into your sp level also keep the same ambush. if someone else wants to play as it is right now. Then you get into squad formation including or excluding people based on if they are blocked or not. At this point I think they should just make matchmaking out right random because obviously CCP did not hear a single one of us that said we do not want Scotty to decide matches before hand.
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 121	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:24:00 - [5] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Alex-ZX wrote: deezy dabest wrote: This sounds like a broken mechanic waiting to happen aside from the multitude of additional problems. 50 Million SP vets running mlitias all day exploiting their core skill advantage over newbs and a horrible division of our already small player base are the first two issues that come to mind. well in this case after you hit a certain amount of sp you won't play militia, standard, advance etc, so you stay into your sp level also keep the same ambush. if someone else wants to play as it is right now. Then you get into squad formation including or excluding people based on if they are blocked or not. At this point I think they should just make matchmaking out right random because obviously CCP did not hear a single one of us that said we do not want Scotty to decide matches before hand. If we don't speak directly and with numbers, they will never listen us, so we need to make it in this way. if it is a good idea that many approve I'm sure CCP will do something about it. thanks for comment. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1726	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:32:00 - [6] - Quote Alex-ZX wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Alex-ZX wrote: deezy dabest wrote: This sounds like a broken mechanic waiting to happen aside from the multitude of additional problems. 50 Million SP vets running mlitias all day exploiting their core skill advantage over newbs and a horrible division of our already small player base are the first two issues that come to mind. well in this case after you hit a certain amount of sp you won't play militia, standard, advance etc, so you stay into your sp level also keep the same ambush. if someone else wants to play as it is right now. Then you get into squad formation including or excluding people based on if they are blocked or not. At this point I think they should just make matchmaking out right random because obviously CCP did not hear a single one of us that said we do not want Scotty to decide matches before hand. If we don't speak directly and with numbers, they will never listen us, so we need to make it in this way. if it is a good idea that many approve I'm sure CCP will do something about it. thanks for comment. I agree putting forth a proposal would be the most constructive way to go about it. Personally I do not feel that numbers have a place in matchmaking in this game. The playerbase is so small and divided in SP / experience that all numbers are going to do is continue to create one sided matches. Pure random team building possibly with the inclusion of dividing it into two queues of high level vets and novices / newbies really is the best thing we could have right now in my opinion. Matching the chaos that is our player base with chaos in matchmaking would at least make exciting battles take place from time to time as well as encourage squad building as a necessity to be able to handle what may or may not be thrown at you. The number one thing that should be in mind when creating whatever system comes about is that scotty CAN NOT decide matches for us.
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 123	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:37:00 - [7] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Alex-ZX wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Alex-ZX wrote: deezy dabest wrote: This sounds like a broken mechanic waiting to happen aside from the multitude of additional problems. 50 Million SP vets running mlitias all day exploiting their core skill advantage over newbs and a horrible division of our already small player base are the first two issues that come to mind. well in this case after you hit a certain amount of sp you won't play militia, standard, advance etc, so you stay into your sp level also keep the same ambush. if someone else wants to play as it is right now. Then you get into squad formation including or excluding people based on if they are blocked or not. At this point I think they should just make matchmaking out right random because obviously CCP did not hear a single one of us that said we do not want Scotty to decide matches before hand. If we don't speak directly and with numbers, they will never listen us, so we need to make it in this way. if it is a good idea that many approve I'm sure CCP will do something about it. thanks for comment. I agree putting forth a proposal would be the most constructive way to go about it. Personally I do not feel that numbers have a place in matchmaking in this game. The playerbase is so small and divided in SP / experience that all numbers are going to do is continue to create one sided matches. Pure random team building possibly with the inclusion of dividing it into two queues of high level vets and novices / newbies really is the best thing we could have right now in my opinion. Matching the chaos that is our player base with chaos in matchmaking would at least make exciting battles take place from time to time as well as encourage squad building as a necessity to be able to handle what may or may not be thrown at you. The number one thing that should be in mind when creating whatever system comes about is that scotty CAN NOT decide matches for us. i agree with you, but also i agree with may of us that say matchmaking in 1.8 was way better, this post is just a "way" to ix it. also keeping new players in one environment less aggressive, many players leave DUST 514 in a couple of days because they can't grow as players, they are threw into hell as fast as they finish the academy. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 272	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:49:00 - [8] - Quote Dividing the player group on experience cannot happen until they solve the latency problem. Ping based matchmaking first, then they can look at other ways Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
Niuvo Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1423	Posted - 2015.01.07 02:33:00 - [9] - Quote There's no saving this game. Leave game as is and fix other stuff first, right?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1526	Posted - 2015.01.07 02:44:00 - [10] - Quote Aliens: Colonial Marines had many a worst part, but the worst part of all was seeing the same player names over-and-over-and-over again. Dust's playerbase is loyal, but it is not large.

thehellisgoingon The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 116	Posted - 2015.01.07 02:51:00 - [11] - Quote Once in a while you get rolled by a superior squad running full proto. Slayers. It happens. Figure out a way to combat them. Re. Hide. Idk
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 125	Posted - 2015.01.07 02:59:00 - [12] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: Once in a while you get rolled by a superior squad running full proto. Slayers. It happens. Figure out a way to combat them. Re. Hide. Idk There's no need to hide, in PCs where they have to proof whom they are..... They sux, lol, most of them Also in ambush, playing tactically u won't die against many "proto stompers" of course I can do that because of 3 freaking years of experience, but a new player, will easily overwhelm. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1692	Posted - 2015.01.07 04:05:00 - [13] - Quote Alex-ZX wrote: . . OP POST . . Props for putting that much effort into your suggestion. First, question: After certain point, players can't join lesser rank matches. 1) how about squads? Would the be forced to limit themselves to the highest/lowest player? 2) What if a player has a lot of SP but is broke moneywise (running proto is expensive). What can he do? Now disappointing facts for the suggestion. - Dust matchmaking struggles to create at least adequately satisfying matches because of low player count - The player count is further divided into smaller groups: server (asia, EU, US) and within each Amb, Skrim, Dom, FW AvsM, FW GvsC). That is means whatever players are online, they are divided into FIFTEEN (15) groups from which matchmaking should create several sensible matches at the same time. - Splitting each ambush, skirm and dom even further into five different would mean 75 different subgroups. (doing math, assume 3000 concurrent players, split into 15 would be 200 ppl which is the current. The new suggestion would mean that there would be.... 40. Forty people. In that case there would actually be zero matchmaking, just tossing those into game and let balancing do it's stuff) Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
GRIM GEAR PredaKonZ 445	Posted - 2015.01.07 04:09:00 - [14] - Quote We will have a nice hunt once you fix your Mexican internet until then may the lag input be with you. Cup of tea anyone? I came here to mingle can you hear that jingle that would be me lingle.
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 126	Posted - 2015.01.07 04:56:00 - [15] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Alex-ZX wrote: . . OP POST . . Props for putting that much effort into your suggestion. First, question: After certain point, players can't join lesser rank matches. 1) how about squads? Would the be forced to limit themselves to the highest/lowest player? 2) What if a player has a lot of SP but is broke moneywise (running proto is expensive). What can he do? Now disappointing facts for the suggestion. - Dust matchmaking struggles to create at least adequately satisfying matches because of low player count - The player count is further divided into smaller groups: server (asia, EU, US) and within each Amb, Skrim, Dom, FW AvsM, FW GvsC). That is means whatever players are online, they are divided into FIFTEEN (15) groups from which matchmaking should create several sensible matches at the same time. - Splitting each ambush, skirm and dom even further into five different would mean 75 different subgroups. (doing math, assume 3000 concurrent players, split into 15 would be 200 ppl which is the current. The new suggestion would mean that there would be.... 40. Forty people. In that case there would actually be zero matchmaking, just tossing those into game and let balancing do it's stuff) After doing a little bit if math and some analysis I had that little mistake about squads. Indeed. After talking with some friends what they think about this they did the same observation, the issue is that right now there's one ocean of difference between each category.. The amount of hp is way way different, they agreed that sp shouldn't be something that just throws away from militia, STD, after check some numbers is true that there would be a good difference about damage and hp, simply because the skills are lvl 5.( proficiency and shield armor buff) I believe that would depend in a future after getting some data about the mechanics if vet players with militia can coexist with new players with militia ( personally I don't think so)... About a vet broken, lol, advance gear is cheap u will see the jump of prices if u play proto. Si this one doesn't matter, a saw this coming, if u don't believe me do an advance suit with just advance gear and check the price, it isn't high.. U didn't read well last part, the thing of militia, STD adv pro will be just in ambush, not in dom, not in skirmish. After all by spreading a little bit in ambush nothing will happen, there are many players in ambush, many of them also new players that would appreciate the idea of playing against ppl with the same meta level. After all this mechanic will improve the base player amount. Like 80% of my friends left the game ( new players) because to them it was impossible to beat protos and adv ppl for many reasons... Hp, dmg etc.. I can beat them 1 vs 1 without too much problem but after 3 years if freaking experience.. Things that many don't have. Not because they are bad, because this isn't a conventional fps. We aren't talking about destiny, call of shi#()# or bf.. In those games u don't need to much skills to get kills. I hope this answers most of ur questions. Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
Alex-ZX Valor Coalition Red Whines. 126	Posted - 2015.01.07 05:02:00 - [16] - Quote GRIM GEAR wrote: We will have a nice hunt once you fix your Mexican internet until then may the lag input be with you. My Mexican Internet has no issues my ping, lag issues are minimum, lol, talking about ping and things like that with another dude above.. I can't fix that, ccp will have to buy a better communication service to fix the ping issue, in Eve ping doesn't affect too much, but in this kind of game, I agree that we need a really good connection to play. Can't talk about this because a friend that have played for at least 2 years, lives in USA has a lot of connection issues, he has a good Internet and a freaking crazy router that in my house would murder everyone easily everytime I play dust. Lol Alex's modified ZX-030 HMG Luis' modified VC-107 CR Alex's modified VC-107 SMG *Owner of this beasts*
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 5370	Posted - 2015.01.07 05:45:00 - [17] - Quote Nothing should ever be based on SP. You can accrue SP by doing literally nothing. If a player creates a character and leaves it until he has 50 million SP, he would still be a new player because he hasn't played a single game yet. It should be based on WP and taking the SP into a minimal account.


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