DUST Search - Logistic and Bandwidth revision

John Demonsbane wrote:

Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

Not sure if I understand. Are you suggesting that the bandwidth is already spit up into those 4 parts as a basic property of the suit?

While having specific BW categories sounds nice on one hand so you wouldn't pop an uplink by dropping an RE, prespecifying and locking the way your BW is allocated sounds overly restrictive.

Now, if you could choose the allocation yourself with some kind of slider in the fitting screen, that would be pretty bad-ass, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not likely to be possible with the current code...

yeah it was to have a fixed amount per suit, not quite as restrictive as you'd imagine. a logi would still be able to field 2 uplinks, 2-3 explosives, 2 nanohives and a prox scanner, it would just allow racial logis to use and carry more of their own equipment. as i say someone with more time could draw up better BW allowances but it just helps keep the equipment you want out, out.
several times i've placed a ocuple of uplinks for squad mates. dropped a hive and lost the uplink that was in a strategic spot just becuse i needed ot drop a triage hive down not an ammpo one

I totally agree with your point about not losing uplinks, but I don't think this is the best way to do it.

I didn't mean restrictive as in limiting EQ further, I meant it in terms of limiting your overall flexibility:

- Sometimes I need 5 links, sometimes only 2 or 3. Depends on the map and who else is around.
- In Dom meat grinder matches I'm really not going to "need" any nanohives but in a nice balanced ambush or skirmish with a semi-defined frontline (as rare as that is) I may need a whole lot.
- God only knows when or if I'll need RE's

Take the APEX suits: Some people really like the way they are set up... and some people really hate them.
The Seraph logi, for example, I really like because it's set up similar to the way I make my own generalist suit... possibly due to the fact that no one else really seemed to care about that particular suit and my feedback in the original thread was about all there was. (That or everyone agrees with my amazing ideas, which is much less likely).

Either way, my point is, for every one of those suits there was at least one or two people who gave reasonable feedback as to why they felt that that was the 'best' way to build the suit, and clearly that's not a unanimous opinion. Taking the suits and similarly dividing up their bandwidth in a fixed manner is going to make even more people unhappy, imo. At least with the APEX you can just not get one or use a different suit. If you made ALL logi suits like this, that option no longer exists and...

Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience

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Nirwanda Vaughns 1182	Posted - 2015.01.06 17:15:00 - [1] - Quote So the whole logistics (and other suits) bandwidth system was a good idea, done badly, and has lead to a slightly confusing system for new players and some old due to all equipment using the same bandwidth. My idea was to have equipment assigned its own bandwidth amount tailored towards racial equipment as well keeping logis using their preffered racial equipment and other racial suits having an even amount of bandwidth per item as well as skill bonus ontop of the current skill bonus to that races equipment bandwidth and the carry amount) so the idea is to have 4 bandwidth divisions Explosives Nanohive Proximity Detection Unit. new Gallente equipment. placed on the ground to detect infantry/behicle movement. 4mbps. detection range/precision ect determined by metalevel. Uplink And to have each suit have enought bandwidth to deploy a full compliment of deployable equipment but with additional bandwidth given to their racial equipment. Amarr Logistics 5% PG/CPU reduction 10% spawn time reduction +1 Drop uplink carried per level Bandwidth allocation Explosives - 6mbps (2 REs or 3 PEs) Nanohive - 8mbps (2 ammo hive or 1 Triage) PDU - 4mbps (1 PDU) Uplink - 12mbps (3 Uplinks) And follow suite with other logis, caldari has a higher nanohive, minmatar have a higher RE/PE amount and each can carry more of their own racial equipment. this means that even though only 1 or 2 can be deployed and amarr and caldari lose the spawn amount and nanocluster amount. each suits racial equipment will have far more uplink or hive carried to drop them as they're used up. the battlefield is still kept clutter free as they can still only drop 2-3 of their equipment befor eit explodes and only 1 or 2 of other racial equipment but it allows a squad to move aorund the battlefield while still having a usefull equipment availavle over longer periods of time. a caldari logi can carry upto 8 ishukone gauged hives but still only have 2 active at once but it allows the logi to still have ammo available when the squad repositions without having to travel to a supply depot as often. same as with an amarr, he can deploy a fresh uplink near his squad so terminated mebers can regroup faster and easier. as for the gallente equipment its been request for some kind of proximity alarm equipment. the idea i had is a deployable equipment similar to a drop uplink or nanohive that has an effective area. any infantry or vehicle that moves into the detection area appears onto the mini map for the squad. In order not to make it too OP the scan precision will have to be balanced per meta level. a basic module will pickup a heavy at range but may struggle with assaults and scouts will negate it but with a 'scan range' of 30m. ADV level it will pickup heavy/assault/logi at 40m and a proto will pickup all basic suits but a scout with profile damps can negate it but it has a range of 50m. its just a rough set of figures that i'm sure players/cpm/devs with more time could put together the full set of logi bandwidth amounts as well as other suits amounts. my idea is socuts get bandwidth geared towards uplinks, commando and assault towards explosives and nanohives ect. but its just an idea i had that could make bandwidth easier to keep track of equipment so you can have uplinks out and not to worry too much about droping a hive without a strategic uplink popping. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5042	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:23:00 - [2] - Quote Not sure if I understand. Are you suggesting that the bandwidth is already spit up into those 4 parts as a basic property of the suit? While having specific BW categories sounds nice on one hand so you wouldn't pop an uplink by dropping an RE, prespecifying and locking the way your BW is allocated sounds overly restrictive. Now, if you could choose the allocation yourself with some kind of slider in the fitting screen, that would be pretty bad-ass, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not likely to be possible with the current code... (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Nirwanda Vaughns 1185	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:44:00 - [3] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Not sure if I understand. Are you suggesting that the bandwidth is already spit up into those 4 parts as a basic property of the suit? While having specific BW categories sounds nice on one hand so you wouldn't pop an uplink by dropping an RE, prespecifying and locking the way your BW is allocated sounds overly restrictive. Now, if you could choose the allocation yourself with some kind of slider in the fitting screen, that would be pretty bad-ass, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not likely to be possible with the current code... yeah it was to have a fixed amount per suit, not quite as restrictive as you'd imagine. a logi would still be able to field 2 uplinks, 2-3 explosives, 2 nanohives and a prox scanner, it would just allow racial logis to use and carry more of their own equipment. as i say someone with more time could draw up better BW allowances but it just helps keep the equipment you want out, out. several times i've placed a ocuple of uplinks for squad mates. dropped a hive and lost the uplink that was in a strategic spot just becuse i needed ot drop a triage hive down not an ammpo one Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1650	Posted - 2015.01.06 18:45:00 - [4] - Quote I understand and you've set up a basic frame work that could actually be revisited and heightened if necessary . It would kill the anti-crowd seeing as how they would understand what it takes and what one has to sacrifice in using equipment . The one thing that I might change is the fact that " spam " is a issue , one has to really define what constitutes spam because people in THIS forum have the habit of exaggerating in making a case in point . I would keep links at the highest BW # but also think about what it takes to max out a role and consider the effort in doing so . Pro links should amount to something more but given the circumstances less likely to be " spammed " . I had no problem with the previous set up and I do not hide my dislike for the current changes but since there here they might as well have a construct that could benefit those who work hard at their craft , while implementing a structure in place that if those with complaints try as they might , the structure is strong and understood and one would realize that you would have to sacrifice a lot ( i.e: effort / SP's to be productive .) , right now the forums have turned into a bully pull pit of sorts . Structure needs to be more defined and understood by the laypeople . Right now we have no structure and it's muddled in a complex setup that makes it's true effort and intention moot , hence the disliking of the changes . This really came about from those complaining about link spam instead of just getting in DS's and elevating the problem or using OB's . Most of the complaints came from known people who squad and in known corps . People who have more then enough of an advantage and just wanted more of an " easy mode " . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5042	Posted - 2015.01.06 19:18:00 - [5] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not sure if I understand. Are you suggesting that the bandwidth is already spit up into those 4 parts as a basic property of the suit? While having specific BW categories sounds nice on one hand so you wouldn't pop an uplink by dropping an RE, prespecifying and locking the way your BW is allocated sounds overly restrictive. Now, if you could choose the allocation yourself with some kind of slider in the fitting screen, that would be pretty bad-ass, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not likely to be possible with the current code... yeah it was to have a fixed amount per suit, not quite as restrictive as you'd imagine. a logi would still be able to field 2 uplinks, 2-3 explosives, 2 nanohives and a prox scanner, it would just allow racial logis to use and carry more of their own equipment. as i say someone with more time could draw up better BW allowances but it just helps keep the equipment you want out, out. several times i've placed a ocuple of uplinks for squad mates. dropped a hive and lost the uplink that was in a strategic spot just becuse i needed ot drop a triage hive down not an ammpo one I totally agree with your point about not losing uplinks, but I don't think this is the best way to do it. I didn't mean restrictive as in limiting EQ further, I meant it in terms of limiting your overall flexibility: - Sometimes I need 5 links, sometimes only 2 or 3. Depends on the map and who else is around. - In Dom meat grinder matches I'm really not going to "need" any nanohives but in a nice balanced ambush or skirmish with a semi-defined frontline (as rare as that is) I may need a whole lot. - God only knows when or if I'll need RE's Take the APEX suits: Some people really like the way they are set up... and some people really hate them. The Seraph logi, for example, I really like because it's set up similar to the way I make my own generalist suit... possibly due to the fact that no one else really seemed to care about that particular suit and my feedback in the original thread was about all there was. (That or everyone agrees with my amazing ideas, which is much less likely). Either way, my point is, for every one of those suits there was at least one or two people who gave reasonable feedback as to why they felt that that was the 'best' way to build the suit, and clearly that's not a unanimous opinion. Taking the suits and similarly dividing up their bandwidth in a fixed manner is going to make even more people unhappy, imo. At least with the APEX you can just not get one or use a different suit. If you made ALL logi suits like this, that option no longer exists and... (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Nirwanda Vaughns 1186	Posted - 2015.01.06 22:14:00 - [6] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not sure if I understand. Are you suggesting that the bandwidth is already spit up into those 4 parts as a basic property of the suit? While having specific BW categories sounds nice on one hand so you wouldn't pop an uplink by dropping an RE, prespecifying and locking the way your BW is allocated sounds overly restrictive. Now, if you could choose the allocation yourself with some kind of slider in the fitting screen, that would be pretty bad-ass, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that's not likely to be possible with the current code... yeah it was to have a fixed amount per suit, not quite as restrictive as you'd imagine. a logi would still be able to field 2 uplinks, 2-3 explosives, 2 nanohives and a prox scanner, it would just allow racial logis to use and carry more of their own equipment. as i say someone with more time could draw up better BW allowances but it just helps keep the equipment you want out, out. several times i've placed a ocuple of uplinks for squad mates. dropped a hive and lost the uplink that was in a strategic spot just becuse i needed ot drop a triage hive down not an ammpo one I totally agree with your point about not losing uplinks, but I don't think this is the best way to do it. I didn't mean restrictive as in limiting EQ further, I meant it in terms of limiting your overall flexibility: - Sometimes I need 5 links, sometimes only 2 or 3. Depends on the map and who else is around. - In Dom meat grinder matches I'm really not going to "need" any nanohives but in a nice balanced ambush or skirmish with a semi-defined frontline (as rare as that is) I may need a whole lot. - God only knows when or if I'll need RE's Take the APEX suits: Some people really like the way they are set up... and some people really hate them. The Seraph logi, for example, I really like because it's set up similar to the way I make my own generalist suit... possibly due to the fact that no one else really seemed to care about that particular suit and my feedback in the original thread was about all there was. (That or everyone agrees with my amazing ideas, which is much less likely). Either way, my point is, for every one of those suits there was at least one or two people who gave reasonable feedback as to why they felt that that was the 'best' way to build the suit, and clearly that's not a unanimous opinion. Taking the suits and similarly dividing up their bandwidth in a fixed manner is going to make even more people unhappy, imo. At least with the APEX you can just not get one or use a different suit. If you made ALL logi suits like this, that option no longer exists and... i did have an idea of giving say a 10% per level to BW amount to racial equipment so if you needed more nanohives then the caldari logi would be able to deploy 4-5 at once as well as the other equipment. same as with uplinks the amarr logi would be able to deploy them. the reason i kinda limited it to just 2-3 is due to limiting equipment spam that the devs are so eager to do/have done. i understand other players will kinda think but oh i want my minmatar logi with 10 uplinks, but with the New EDen universe things are always tailored to benefit 'going racial' a rail rifle should be far superior on a caldari assault than a gallente, just as the laser rifle is at its peak on an amarr assault then the logis need to be more refined. yup you can fill your minmatar logi with nanohives but you can only have 2 active whereas by keeping things racial you can have 4-5 out on a caldari. the logis are supposed to carry a variety of equipment and specializing in one in peticular and not spamming 11 uplinks out, then 9 nanohives and then 15 prox mines like we used to. thats precisley the thing CCP want to eliminate and to also improves game performance for us Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5046	Posted - 2015.01.06 23:47:00 - [7] - Quote Right, but that's why the cal/am logi's have more BW in the first place. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
benandjerrys NECROM0NGERS 90	Posted - 2015.01.07 00:14:00 - [8] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=186838&find=unread Food for thought. Yours is more executable mine is more canon/ modus operandi with eve


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