DUST Search - Meta Level lockout needs to be a high priority feature.

Duke Noobiam wrote:

Dubya Guy wrote:

In my opinion, what most people describe as "proto stomping" has less to do with differences in gear, or even experience, than with differences in coordination and communication levels.

Any effort which improves new players' coordination and communication, or controls for the amount of it between both sides in a battle will more dramatically reduce what is described as "proto stomping" than limiting access based on gear.

This is just an opinion of a mid-experience player who has only run Proto suits in pub matches maybe 10x, ever.

I agree that the elite teams do not win because they are using proto gear. Coordination of attack (running together), mastery of game mechanics, map knowledge, maxed core skills, all of these are factors that contribute to victory.

That said, these vet squads are also running 6 deep, all decked out in full proto gear. Doesn't matter how many times they die in a match, it's proto all the way all the time. You don't see squads of Nyan San or Capital Aquisition or Outer.Heaven or Fatal Absolution (or any of the other stompers) running Quafe BPO suits and using combat riffles.

So they have all the advantages I listed initially plus they have the best gear in the game. Furthermore, maxed skills are much more effective on Proto gear due to the fact that bonuses in DUST are multiplicative, this makes the usage of the gear that much better.

I know that personally, the inequality in gear was one of the most infuriating things when I started playing and was getting stomped. If you have all the disadvantages of a new player topped with the fact that you need to put twice as many bullets in your enemy to kill him than he has to kill you, the game borders on lunacy and only masochist and/or philosophers can deal with it.

BTW, I'm not a noob (but I'm far from elite) I play a dozen hours a week and I have north of 45 million SP. The proto-stomping is not a huge issue for me personally (I still get stomped but not frequently) but I did recommend the game to a few friends who loved the academy and quit within days of "graduating" to the real player base. As a result of this and to help new player retention, I run basic or advanced gear in pubs unless I am up against a team that is stacked with players running proto.

FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.


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Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 167	Posted - 2015.01.02 19:22:00 - [1] - Quote In my opinion, what most people describe as "proto stomping" has less to do with differences in gear, or even experience, than with differences in coordination and communication levels. Any effort which improves new players' coordination and communication, or controls for the amount of it between both sides in a battle will more dramatically reduce what is described as "proto stomping" than limiting access based on gear. This is just an opinion of a mid-experience player who has only run Proto suits in pub matches maybe 10x, ever. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 168	Posted - 2015.01.02 20:54:00 - [2] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Dubya Guy wrote: In my opinion, what most people describe as "proto stomping" has less to do with differences in gear, or even experience, than with differences in coordination and communication levels. Any effort which improves new players' coordination and communication, or controls for the amount of it between both sides in a battle will more dramatically reduce what is described as "proto stomping" than limiting access based on gear. This is just an opinion of a mid-experience player who has only run Proto suits in pub matches maybe 10x, ever. I agree that the elite teams do not win because they are using proto gear. Coordination of attack (running together), mastery of game mechanics, map knowledge, maxed core skills, all of these are factors that contribute to victory. That said, these vet squads are also running 6 deep, all decked out in full proto gear. Doesn't matter how many times they die in a match, it's proto all the way all the time. You don't see squads of Nyan San or Capital Aquisition or Outer.Heaven or Fatal Absolution (or any of the other stompers) running Quafe BPO suits and using combat riffles. So they have all the advantages I listed initially plus they have the best gear in the game. Furthermore, maxed skills are much more effective on Proto gear due to the fact that bonuses in DUST are multiplicative, this makes the usage of the gear that much better. I know that personally, the inequality in gear was one of the most infuriating things when I started playing and was getting stomped. If you have all the disadvantages of a new player topped with the fact that you need to put twice as many bullets in your enemy to kill him than he has to kill you, the game borders on lunacy and only masochist and/or philosophers can deal with it. BTW, I'm not a noob (but I'm far from elite) I play a dozen hours a week and I have north of 45 million SP. The proto-stomping is not a huge issue for me personally (I still get stomped but not frequently) but I did recommend the game to a few friends who loved the academy and quit within days of "graduating" to the real player base. As a result of this and to help new player retention, I run basic or advanced gear in pubs unless I am up against a team that is stacked with players running proto. Thanks for the explanation Duke. I share your goal. You have admirable motivations and I believe that you, like me, want to do everything possible to keep Dust flourishing. I am a rather serious chap so I would be flattered to be considered a philosopher, but more likely I am just a masochist so take what I am about to say with that in mind... I don't mind getting killed by someone running better gear than me. I don't even mind getting killed by someone with higher skill levels than me. I consider them to be dangerous parts of the environment and challenges to be avoided or maneuvered around or experiences to be learned from. Totally serious here What DOES frustrate me is what you describe as the "6 deep" effect happening no matter where I spawn on the map. This IMO is more an aspect of the squad (or q-sync'd team) being well formed with the right mix of roles and taking full advantage of squad coordination to seek out, hunt down, and eliminate opponents systematically via team-tactics and chat channels. This bothers me when MY squad and team aren't doing the same, and I feel foolish and pwned. The fact that they are good at these (IMO) legitimate warfare tactics means they can AFFORD to run proto without risk of losing it. Not the inverse. They run Proto because they have better coordination, and wouldn't run proto if they didn't. I'd warrant that most of the players that do this, if they were to run solo without comms, would not run proto very often. It is the relative rarity of running into another coordinated team that allows them to (reasonably) feel invincible enough to risk their ISK and officer gear. ...again, just my perspective and perception. And yes, I have suggested a way to control for this, but it is probably too far out of group-think at this point. <-Philosophy FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.