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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
736
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having read the Roadmap 2015 I must say I am very impressed with what CCP has planned.
But I've been wondering where will the casual player base will fit into all this? What are CCP and the Community's stance on them? When I say casual players I mean the people who rarely check the forums and aren't active in PC. The players that just like to turn the game on, play some public matches and turn the game off.
Before Forum elitists claim they should "go back to CoD", remember a large player base is good for everyone.
In short, I love what CCP has planned for Dust, but I think it should be done in a way that doesn't intimidate new players into leaving right away.
I would like to see a shallow but steady learning progression that starts at the Academy/Pubs, and leads up to FW wars and custom warbarge building in PC.
Dust can already be very intimidating for noobs, and with it becoming set to turn into an even more mega-hardcore FPS, I'm concerned about the staying power this game has with new players.
I want the NPE and Public aspect of the game to be so friendly, inviting and satisfying that noobs can stay there indefinitely, and when and if they feel comfortable can graduate themselves to FW and PC.
Like it or not, you need the casual players.
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
922
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
the more ccp does to keep the casual players the better. they are the fodder we all feed on.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5758
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
I believe Rattati said that mercs can earn personal warbarges. These warbarges allow players to invest in themselves beyond earning SP and ISK. That will help retain players, for sure.
My advice to you, playa...
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
20568
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Obligatory: fukin casuls
I agree. The NPE is a harrowing experience that chews up scores of newbies with few survivors. It really, really needs some love.
Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
894
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:I believe Rattati said that mercs can earn personal warbarges. These warbarges allow players to invest in themselves beyond earning SP and ISK. That will help retain players, for sure. It will also be another layer of rules to chew on after they understood SP, ISK, skills, dropsuits, fittings, meta-levels, eWar, damage profiles, FW, ... |
7th Son 7
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
just leave players in the academy longer, problem solved |
Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
709
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:I believe Rattati said that mercs can earn personal warbarges. These warbarges allow players to invest in themselves beyond earning SP and ISK. That will help retain players, for sure.
I missed this "warbarge" talk... Where can I find this thread please???
Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5758
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:It will also be another layer of rules to chew on after they understood SP, ISK, skills, dropsuits, fittings, meta-levels, eWar, damage profiles, FW, ... I agree we need better NPE, but we have to work with what we are given. Adding a social aspect to Dust like warbarges will put new players in contact with veterans who can explain SP, ISK, skills, dropsuits, fittings, meta-levels, eWar, damage profiles, FW ...
My advice to you, playa...
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5758
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:I missed this "warbarge" talk... Where can I find this thread please??? It starts around here.
My advice to you, playa...
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Michael Epic
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
382
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
This game is incredibly difficult for new players...but we all started there and we stuck around! My character has existed for a year and a half but after 1.7 and 1.8 I was gone for 6-8 months....but I played my ass off and earned 30 million SP from 6/2013 to now even with HUGE times when I've left.
Recently, I've begun playing in the battle academy over multiple profiles, to earn isk with the frontline suits and to swipe the 25,000 starting isk as well as liquidate the assets. I've been piling up ISK by doing this, but have begun a new thing as well.
I find players that are new...the ones who SOS on the teamchat for help (it happens often) and I've come across numerous players ages 12-34 or so who have no clue what is going on and I've explained the game to them and added them on PSN and offered to mentor them while I am online.
I tell them upfront, if you're weak willed and you expect a COD kill streak, you're on the wrong game but if you want fierce competition, grueling gameplay and feel like putting up or shutting up, this is the game for you but you have to really want it or you're not going to "get it" so to speak.
The players I've talked too seem to appreciate me telling them upfront this game is hard...I'd say out of 10 players, I've retained 6 or so that still play weeks later and when we talk they tell me I wasn't kidding and they can barely even get a kill and don't understand the skill tree.
So that's my part of retaining new players for Dust 514
TL;DR - I help new players as much as I can so we have a growing playerbase. |
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
20569
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:This game is incredibly difficult for new players...but we all started there and we stuck around!
I know I'm tunnel visioning on this point here and the rest of your post is much more laudable, but this is honestly a terrible thing to say about the NPE.
Firstly, it is not an excuse for a poor NPE. That some people managed to bear it does not mean it isn't terrible.
Secondly, I, personally, never experienced the level of newbie stomping that exists now when I started out. A solid number of vets never have, because at the time we started playing there were no protostompers and people with gigantic SP advantages - everyone was on an even playing field. Seeing vets suggest that there's nothing wrong with the NPE because they survived it irks me, because actually their experience was much easier.
Again, I've no problem with you personally, Michael, but this particular statement does not seem to me to be indicative of a healthy attitude towards new players.
Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
740
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Posted - 2014.12.29 18:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Michael Epic wrote:This game is incredibly difficult for new players...but we all started there and we stuck around! My character has existed for a year and a half but after 1.7 and 1.8 I was gone for 6-8 months....but I played my ass off and earned 30 million SP from 6/2013 to now even with HUGE times when I've left.
Recently, I've begun playing in the battle academy over multiple profiles, to earn isk with the frontline suits and to swipe the 25,000 starting isk as well as liquidate the assets. I've been piling up ISK by doing this, but have begun a new thing as well.
I find players that are new...the ones who SOS on the teamchat for help (it happens often) and I've come across numerous players ages 12-34 or so who have no clue what is going on and I've explained the game to them and added them on PSN and offered to mentor them while I am online.
I tell them upfront, if you're weak willed and you expect a COD kill streak, you're on the wrong game but if you want fierce competition, grueling gameplay and feel like putting up or shutting up, this is the game for you but you have to really want it or you're not going to "get it" so to speak.
The players I've talked too seem to appreciate me telling them upfront this game is hard...I'd say out of 10 players, I've retained 6 or so that still play weeks later and when we talk they tell me I wasn't kidding and they can barely even get a kill and don't understand the skill tree.
So that's my part of retaining new players for Dust 514
TL;DR - I help new players as much as I can so we have a growing playerbase.
That's awesome. I like to help new players as well. I'll send you a million ISK
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
5273
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Posted - 2014.12.29 18:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Obligatory: fukin casuls
I agree. The NPE is a harrowing experience that chews up scores of newbies with few survivors. It really, really needs some love.
Beat me to it. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
894
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Posted - 2014.12.29 18:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:A solid number of vets never have, because at the time we started playing there were no protostompers and people with gigantic SP advantages - everyone was on an even playing field. Just to underline this point:
I would not be playing this game if I had to start over now. Playing as a new player outside of the academy is terrible and no fun at all.
Seriously, this is game is not fun if you're not a vet. I don't think I'd recommend anyone to start playing this game now, or at any point after January 2013, for that matter. My respect to all those who did start later than that, but I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. |
Michael Epic
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
384
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Posted - 2014.12.29 18:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Again, I've no problem with you personally, Michael, but this particular statement does not seem to me to be indicative of a healthy attitude towards new players.
Ah, I don't even understand what you're saying or talking about. Did you skim my post or actually read it? Its the duality of man, Arkena. The game is hard...this game trumps COD, Battlefield, Halo, Warface, ect in terms of difficulty. This is not even close to an easy game and neither is EVE. Do you play EVE? If you do that should be reasonable to you that EVE is incredibly difficult and so is Dust.
New players don't stand a chance against SP stacked proto players...but they have to tough it out because they have no choice. I am all for expanding the NPE and making it easier to grow the player base. If CCP offers some sort of place for new players to grow and develop and graduate themselves into higher tier gameplay...I'll personally design flyers for Dust 514 and pay for them out of my own money for them to be printed and distribute them at high school's and colleges and walmarts everywhere around where I live to grow the player base. That's how much I believe in this game.
But I have no idea what you're saying and how embracing the truth is not a healthy attitude towards new player, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. That's the sensible thing to do o7. |
Ironblade DEMOINC
Demonic Cowboys
2
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Posted - 2014.12.29 18:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
what is this new player experience you talk about ?
the scout that never was
assault AK.0
logistic Mk.0
scout c/1
sentinel a/1
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
9002
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Posted - 2014.12.29 19:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just have them play Sleepy Head by Passion Pit while they are getting their ass kicked.
It really takes the edge off the butthurt.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Operative 1174 Uuali
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
193
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Posted - 2014.12.29 21:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
New players and casual players are two different things. The NPE is also something separate from what should be offered the casual player.
I don't need more academy as a casual player. I need to be matched against people that are playing the game as I am and not hardcoring it with full proto fits, comms, power player willingness to just pull out anything to win instead of running a specific favorite role and relying on squad que syncing.
I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
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Miokai Zahou
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
433
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:A solid number of vets never have, because at the time we started playing there were no protostompers and people with gigantic SP advantages - everyone was on an even playing field. Just to underline this point: I would not be playing this game if I had to start over now. Playing as a new player outside of the academy is terrible and no fun at all. Seriously, this is game is not fun if you're not a vet. I don't think I'd recommend anyone to start playing this game now, or at any point after January 2013, for that matter. My respect to all those who did start later than that, but I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
Eh just extend the academy experience until the newbros are at 10 million skill points or something and add better tutorials etc.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
389
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quoted from the Roadmap thread:
CCP Rattati wrote:Lac Nokomis wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:@Community
Another thing I strongly encourage the playerbase to do is to also come up with their own ideas as well revolving around the base concepts of these ideas.
Presented here is a foundation; there time to build on it still and the final design has not happened yet it is still mostly all on paper and you guys have the chance to heavily influence that.
For example the war barge does not have to be so tied down into PC that it cannot be an asset enjoyed elsewhere. It could be upgraded to support non pC actions such as FW or Pubs even.
I mean what if the personal ship doesn't start out as a barge but the barges become something more synonymous to titans of eve online; the highest end personal goal you can set for yourself being a daunting task to upgrade to that size and you're starting with a war junker the size of a slightly larger mcc. As a newerish player (2 months) I wanted to show my support this type of idea. It even made me log in. :P As someone who knows not of PC experience other than what I hear, I would LOVE to be able to utilize what referenced in OP. Even though PC seems to be the "flagship" of Dust gameplay, I would really like to enjoy these expansions on my own. I also believe making this warbarge available to every player will lead to a more pleasant experience for EVERYONE WHO PLAYS. Not just players that stick with it long enough to get involved with PC. I mean shoot. If I could have had this type of thing to spend my time looking at/"specing" into/thinking about when I was new, my frustration with dust would have been greatly reduced. Plus something makes me think CCP getting a fair amount of money from players who don't play PC currently. So it might benefit to cater to that also. I don't know. Just a noob's .2 o7 That's exacly the point, I, as a solo player, lack the feeling of ownership and progression, yes I see my SP and ISK go up, but I want to invest in something that I personally own and reflects my power. Then, joining a corporation that both wants me and the power of my warbarge, while augmenting my own warbarge and opening up PC to me through "free or earned" clone packs, daring to attack one of the old powers in PC, is the underlying concept of this vision.
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Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
918
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think first and foremost we need to define these "classes" of players and find different ways we can "feed" there enjoyments into this game so far. Right now we are full of vets and new players and some casuals. Most games survive off the casuals as they usually are in steady. We need to focus at the foundation if CCP wants this game to have a good mark in their future games like lol Legion. So, let's define these classes?
No one does it better than PIE
Lasers4life
"Jesus!" yelled the blues "No, my name is Forever"
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demonkiller 12
G.L.O.R.Y
General Tso's Alliance
403
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Posted - 2014.12.29 23:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:A solid number of vets never have, because at the time we started playing there were no protostompers and people with gigantic SP advantages - everyone was on an even playing field. Just to underline this point: I would not be playing this game if I had to start over now. Playing as a new player outside of the academy is terrible and no fun at all. Seriously, this is game is not fun if you're not a vet. I don't think I'd recommend anyone to start playing this game now, or at any point after January 2013, for that matter. My respect to all those who did start later than that, but I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Eh just extend the academy experience until the newbros are at 10 million skill points or something and add better tutorials etc.
^ this exactly, this games menus are quite difficult to navigate for people in their first few hours, i run an alt account where i go into battle academy and get as many new bros as I can, try and get them all into my training corp and teach them as much as i can before they go to an older corp, but most new players have no idea how to navigate the neocom, they need a new hand holding tutorial for that - also maybe like 10 or 20x SP while in battle academy |
demonkiller 12
G.L.O.R.Y
General Tso's Alliance
403
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Posted - 2014.12.30 00:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:I think first and foremost we need to define these "classes" of players and find different ways we can "feed" there enjoyments into this game so far. Right now we are full of vets and new players and some casuals. Most games survive off the casuals as they usually are in steady. We need to focus at the foundation if CCP wants this game to have a good mark in their future games like lol Legion. So, let's define these classes?
ive been playing since OB back in feb? 2013 and the game play feels kinda boring to me, but having a personal ship and or station, or even like a ship/station for my corporation would be freaking amazing, i would solely play games just to get isk and upgrade my ship/station, somewhere i can socially interact with my corp in-between matches, who knows maybe even play some mini games? bet on another corps PC battle? |
Forever ETC
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
918
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Posted - 2014.12.30 02:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
demonkiller 12 wrote:Forever ETC wrote:I think first and foremost we need to define these "classes" of players and find different ways we can "feed" there enjoyments into this game so far. Right now we are full of vets and new players and some casuals. Most games survive off the casuals as they usually are in steady. We need to focus at the foundation if CCP wants this game to have a good mark in their future games like lol Legion. So, let's define these classes? ive been playing since OB back in feb? 2013 and the game play feels kinda boring to me, but having a personal ship and or station, or even like a ship/station for my corporation would be freaking amazing, i would solely play games just to get isk and upgrade my ship/station, somewhere i can socially interact with my corp in-between matches, who knows maybe even play some mini games? bet on another corps PC battle?
Nice suggestions, I feel this seems to be guided to the casuals? Well we need to define them. I'll start with what I think the classes are.
New Players(Aka Stupid Blueberries)- Victims of the game. Academy Graduates and players under 10 mil SP. Often run starter fits or basic to advance. Can be decent or horrible players. If feel this class need the most attention and that can be solved by corps. Getting them engaged into groups like Immortal Guides and squads from Learning Coalition are key. If we can advertise tho game as social we can keep more players as vets can train them. Thus the need for tutorials won't be needed. Also a mode for training would also be ideal.
Casuals(Aka most open class)- Anyone 15 mil or above usually. Play for the fun of it. Often squad up and play usually pubs. May or may not do FW but hardly ever do PC. Social aspects and matchmaking are crucial for this class to stay alive. If the game becomes to competitive or repetitive we can risk losing them. Opening new ways to play and interactions are the way to go.
No one does it better than PIE
Lasers4life
"Jesus!" yelled the blues "No, my name is Forever"
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Everything Dies
Santa is coming...FOR BLOOD
1150
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Posted - 2014.12.30 03:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Currently have a little over 37 million SP, but I'm the definition of a "casual" Dust player. I've been in a grand total of 1 PC match, and that was probably within three months of when I started playing. Since then, I've occasionally joined established corps but I just don't find the enjoyment out of the "win at all costs" mentality, so I remain running solo in skirmish matches around 90% of the time (it's almost impossible to find a Gal/Min FW match as a solo player, unfortunately) while doing my best to finish the match with a tidy profit. Hell, with the daily missions often calling for "kill x number of players" I've taken to running a standard assault suit that costs me 11,000 ISK.
If you really want to help the new players out, leave a spot open in your squads and hit up the squad finder/chats to find a player that needs help learning from the best in the game. Always a little saddened to see full six-man squads of elite players/corps in battle as you'll inevitably see a bunch of 0/12 players on the opposite team by the end of the match, and those are the players that aren't going to stick around for long.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
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GLOBAL fils'de RAGE
Consolidated Dust
118
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Posted - 2014.12.30 03:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:I believe Rattati said that mercs can earn personal warbarges. These warbarges allow players to invest in themselves beyond earning SP and ISK. That will help retain players, for sure. It will also be another layer of rules to chew on after they understood SP, ISK, skills, dropsuits, fittings, meta-levels, eWar, damage profiles, FW, ... My question is: What do personal Warbarges do that the already implemented progression systems can't handle?
Generate more revenue.
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