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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3459
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
In EVE for the most part the most you will ever fit in shields and armor is usually one, maybe two HP increasing modules, some ships can tank a crap ton of mods but for the most part one or two is enough, sometimes even none. The rest of your slots being used for utility and resistances.
So what if...
All shield suits gained +165 shield hp
Shield extenders had their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled, and penalties tripled.
And all armor suits gained + 225 armor hp
And all armor mods got their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled,and penalties tripled.
The idea behind this is to focus less on tank and more on optimizing your tank with supporting modules, EWAR, utility mods etc, and you could run perfectly viable fits without using any hp mods at all.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Heimdallr69
Nyain San General Tso's Alliance
3886
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't think I could fit a suit with that =ƒÿü unless you increase our pg and CPU by a lot.
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3462
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:I don't think I could fit a suit with that =ƒÿü unless you increase our pg and CPU by a lot.
Nope! Because now you need to use PG and CPU mods which you can actually use since you don't need to stack a billion hp,mods! Also stacking one these is like stacking 3 hp mods for the price of 4 should be viable somewhat.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
13777
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:I don't think I could fit a suit with that =ƒÿü unless you increase our pg and CPU by a lot. 48 PG from a complex plate. It's fittable as long as you only use one.
Though at the same time, basic plates would cost 9PG, which is clearly bad scaling. So we can't simply quadruple costs and expect it to all work out.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
13777
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:In EVE for the most part the most you will ever fit in shields and armor is usually one, maybe two HP increasing modules, some ships can tank a crap ton of mods but for the most part one or two is enough, sometimes even none. The rest of your slots being used for utility and resistances.
So what if...
All shield suits gained +165 shield hp
Shield extenders had their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled, and penalties tripled.
And all armor suits gained + 225 armor hp
And all armor mods got their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled,and penalties tripled.
The idea behind this is to focus less on tank and more on optimizing your tank with supporting modules, EWAR, utility mods etc, and you could run perfectly viable fits without using any hp mods at all. Don't give scouts the HP increase. *Giggles on the inside*
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3462
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:In EVE for the most part the most you will ever fit in shields and armor is usually one, maybe two HP increasing modules, some ships can tank a crap ton of mods but for the most part one or two is enough, sometimes even none. The rest of your slots being used for utility and resistances.
So what if...
All shield suits gained +165 shield hp
Shield extenders had their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled, and penalties tripled.
And all armor suits gained + 225 armor hp
And all armor mods got their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled,and penalties tripled.
The idea behind this is to focus less on tank and more on optimizing your tank with supporting modules, EWAR, utility mods etc, and you could run perfectly viable fits without using any hp mods at all. Don't give scouts the HP increase. *Giggles on the inside*
No your right their hp gain would be about half though
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14382
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Posted - 2014.12.12 23:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
I like this idea as the TTK remains the same, but fittings are able to be far more diverse while remaning competitive. Though with only having to fit 1-2 Extenders my MinAssault will do everything. :3
Speed Tank, Regen, Hacks, eWAR, Melee, you name it...
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3462
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Posted - 2014.12.13 00:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I like this idea as the TTK remains the same, but fittings are able to be far more diverse while remaning competitive. Though with only having to fit 1-2 Extenders my MinAssault will do everything. :3
Speed Tank, Regen, Hacks, eWAR, Melee, you name it...
But your shield delay would be extremely long lol! (Tripling penalties does not account for stacking hahaha) so your delay would be like 40% longer, also if you fit two of these you won't have room for anything. Although I will have to do a long term analysis because other modules would need to be balanced with it, like CPU/PG and supporting mods.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
13779
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Posted - 2014.12.13 00:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I like this idea as the TTK remains the same, but fittings are able to be far more diverse while remaning competitive. Though with only having to fit 1-2 Extenders my MinAssault will do everything. :3
Speed Tank, Regen, Hacks, eWAR, Melee, you name it... Such a change would require quite the comprehensive change tbh.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3462
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Posted - 2014.12.13 00:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Atiim wrote:I like this idea as the TTK remains the same, but fittings are able to be far more diverse while remaning competitive. Though with only having to fit 1-2 Extenders my MinAssault will do everything. :3
Speed Tank, Regen, Hacks, eWAR, Melee, you name it... Such a change would require quite the comprehensive change tbh.
Just about every module would require some balancing, although initially just balancing PG/CPU and supporting mods would suffice if this is ever even considered lol. Some modules could be entirely omitted like the ones that do not rely on HP at all.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1183
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Posted - 2014.12.21 13:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
The principle of the idea is pretty great though the numbers are a bit squiffy But making it so pure tanking is difficult/less useful is a laudable goal!
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Jacques Cayton II
Kaalmayoti Warzone Control
1271
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Posted - 2014.12.21 14:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:In EVE for the most part the most you will ever fit in shields and armor is usually one, maybe two HP increasing modules, some ships can tank a crap ton of mods but for the most part one or two is enough, sometimes even none. The rest of your slots being used for utility and resistances.
So what if...
All shield suits gained +165 shield hp
Shield extenders had their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled, and penalties tripled.
To compare, 5 shield extenders gives 363 HP.
This idea would give shields with a shield extender 382.8 hp.
And all armor suits gained + 225 armor hp
And all armor mods got their hp tripled, fitting costs quadrupled,and penalties tripled.
To compare the average armor hp per module is 91.6, so average hp of 5 armor mods is 458.3.
This idea would give an armor suit with a armor mod 499.8 hp.
The idea behind this is to focus less on tank and more on optimizing your tank with supporting modules, EWAR, utility mods etc, and you could run perfectly viable fits without using any hp mods at all.
There is a small net gain of hp, like 20+ up but in a more compact form and slightly more fitting intensive so you will require using cpu/pg mods in some cases, with the crippling penalties overreacting would be stupid. I like it honestly especially since i wont have to focus on hp while also focusing on regen. Damn you shields.
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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ScI-Iurk
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
26
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Posted - 2014.12.21 14:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
It would make more sense to add stacking penalty to hp armour mods. Wouldn't work the same for shields without more diverse choices. |
BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3496
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Posted - 2014.12.21 14:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
ScI-Iurk wrote:It would make more sense to add stacking penalty to hp armour mods. Wouldn't work the same for shields without more diverse choices.
There shouldn't be a stacking penalty but, I highly doubt many would stack more than 2 of these mods. Firstly they have 4 times the fitting costs, one complex ferroscale would cost 32 PG, two would cost 64 which is slightly higher than 2/3 of the entire PG buffer of the suit, and thats just in pg unless the suit stacks pg mods he has no room for anything else and his utility will suck providing a less than optimal fit, the suit would have no rep, no speed from kin catz, (hopefully implemented) no bonus from resistance plates.
On the other hand heavy plates (speed penalty plates) would provide high base HP but at the cost of 30% of your speed and 96 PG (the entire PG of the average suit)
Also CCP could implement a 2 HP module limit per suit.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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emm kay
G0DS AM0NG MEN
233
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Posted - 2014.12.21 15:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
no. simply, no.
a) fitting costs. nobody will be able to fit the complex items except logis. Logis would be able to mega-tank and prety much be a sentinel. b) fitting costs. it would kill cal commandos, and minmatar scouts. c)triple penalties. Simply put. your shields wouldn't recharge for half the game.if you're supposed to 'fit mods' in the low slots as you so graciously put it, there is no room for shield energisers, or any other shield mod.
There is a reason you never see me in battle.
it's because I see you first.
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance
1341
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Posted - 2014.12.21 15:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:I don't think I could fit a suit with that =ƒÿü unless you increase our pg and CPU by a lot. Nope! Because now you need to use PG and CPU mods which you can actually use since you don't need to stack a billion hp,mods! Also stacking one these is like stacking 3 hp mods for the price of 4 should be viable somewhat.
How about we keep it as it is and it seems to be working fine.
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3496
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Posted - 2014.12.21 16:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:I don't think I could fit a suit with that =ƒÿü unless you increase our pg and CPU by a lot. Nope! Because now you need to use PG and CPU mods which you can actually use since you don't need to stack a billion hp,mods! Also stacking one these is like stacking 3 hp mods for the price of 4 should be viable somewhat. How about we keep it as it is and it seems to be working fine.
Depends on what you define as fine, fine as in using mostly hp modules and ignoring 70%-90% of all the modules we have?
In my opinion that is not fine, I would love to create a viable fit that doesn't require stacking all my slots with hp.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Leovarian L Lavitz
NECROM0NGERS
1206
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Posted - 2014.12.21 16:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Heres my proposition: These are new modules in addition to the hp modules we currently have. These new, high HP modules will be called Efficient Shield Extender/ Efficient Armor Plate
The standard Efficient Shield Extender module will have 3x basic shield extender hp and use the same fitting as 2 complex shield extenders, and will have the quadruple penalty.
so, it will give 99 HP, and use 24* pg
The Advanced Efficient Shield Extender Will have triple the HP of an advanced shield extender, and use triple Complex shield extender fitting (36pg). and quadruple penalti
so it will give 150 HP and use 48 PG
The Complex Efficient Shield Extender will have triple the hp of a complex shield extender, and cost four times the cost of a complex shield extender. (48 PG)
So it will give 198 HP and use 60 PG
Omni-Soldier
Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
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duster 35000
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2014.12.21 17:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Heres my proposition: These are new modules in addition to the hp modules we currently have. These new, high HP modules will be called Efficient Shield Extender/ Efficient Armor Plate
The standard Efficient Shield Extender module will have 3x basic shield extender hp and use the same fitting as 2 complex shield extenders, and will have the quadruple penalty.
so, it will give 99 HP, and use 24* pg
The Advanced Efficient Shield Extender Will have triple the HP of an advanced shield extender, and use triple Complex shield extender fitting (36pg). and quadruple penalti
so it will give 150 HP and use 48 PG
The Complex Efficient Shield Extender will have triple the hp of a complex shield extender, and cost four times the cost of a complex shield extender. (48 PG)
So it will give 198 HP and use 60 PG Yes pls.
I will be able to fit 3 energizers...or a mycrofil if it increased speed.
Choo Choo
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
884
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Posted - 2014.12.21 17:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
I absolutely agree with the notion that the general hp per fitting requirement ratio should be decreased. This then results in a reduction in hp module usefulness that will thus result in increased usage of utility modules. If total hp is to stay the same this needs to go along with an increase in hp module efficacy, as per your suggestion.
Personally I'd suggest going smaller steps. Like increase efficacy 25% while increasing fitting requirements 50%. Also, align the hp per fitting requirement ratio between the tiers of items (std, adv & cpx). |
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Stupid Blueberry
Hyasyoda Terrestrial Acquisitions Firm
728
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Posted - 2014.12.21 17:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
emm kay wrote:no. simply, no.
a) fitting costs. nobody will be able to fit the complex items except logis. Logis would be able to mega-tank and prety much be a sentinel. b) fitting costs. it would kill cal commandos, and minmatar scouts. c)triple penalties. Simply put. your shields wouldn't recharge for half the game.if you're supposed to 'fit mods' in the low slots as you so graciously put it, there is no room for shield energisers, or any other shield mod.
Electronics.
Powergrid Management.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Haajakin Kalen.
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ishtellian
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
79
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Posted - 2014.12.21 17:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
I like this idea, it would allow alot more diversity than stacking 3 armor plates and 2 reps on you fit, however some of the numbers need to be balanced out, like Eve you should be able to make stupid and bad fits, but they shouldn't be viable, but at the same time there shouldn't be one or two fits that only work. If this happened, i think itd be pretty cool if they added armor/shield hardeners in Dust, maybe like a passive 10-20% resist and than you can activate it for 10-20 seconds for 35-40 resist.
My Heavy Never Dies.
Logibro In training.
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Robin Raizer
Horizons' Edge Proficiency V.
7
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Posted - 2014.12.21 17:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
I wan't the devs to see this....
Guy 1-Whats that thing shooting shooting at us
Guy 2-looks like a walking frog!
Guy 1-OH SH** A WALKING FR-
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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3498
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Posted - 2014.12.21 18:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
emm kay wrote:no. simply, no.
a) fitting costs. nobody will be able to fit the complex items except logis. Logis would be able to mega-tank and prety much be a sentinel. b) fitting costs. it would kill cal commandos, and minmatar scouts. c)triple penalties. Simply put. your shields wouldn't recharge for half the game.if you're supposed to 'fit mods' in the low slots as you so graciously put it, there is no room for shield energisers, or any other shield mod.
You get the hp of 3 modules for the cost of 4 I don't get it?I can easily fit 4 hp modules so the cost is not a problem... Triple the penalty would increase depleted shield delay by like 1 or 2 seconds... And you have more room for regulators since there is absolutely no point to dual tank.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Dauth Jenkins
Titans of Phoenix
620
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Posted - 2014.12.21 18:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
i like this, as it allows for diversification. right now, the only pure shield suit i run with regulators and energizers is my prot callogi. i run 3 complex extenders, 2 enhanced energizers, and 3 enhanced regulators. If this idea is implemented, i could use a similar setup on my advanced suits, without being completely gimped in terms of HP. the question is, how would this work with scouts? would they get the same hp bonus?
Also, as some people complain about shields not having a downside, how about giving them a increased profile when using extenders. maybe you could keep the current extenders in the game, so that shield scouts have a way to increase HP without such a large penalty, in the same way that armour scouts have ferroscale plates to reduce the weight reduction.
-Sincerely
--The Dual Swarm Commando
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BL4CKST4R
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3498
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Posted - 2014.12.21 19:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dauth Jenkins wrote:i like this, as it allows for diversification. right now, the only pure shield suit i run with regulators and energizers is my prot callogi. i run 3 complex extenders, 2 enhanced energizers, and 3 enhanced regulators. If this idea is implemented, i could use a similar setup on my advanced suits, without being completely gimped in terms of HP. the question is, how would this work with scouts? would they get the same hp bonus?
Also, as some people complain about shields not having a downside, how about giving them a increased profile when using extenders. maybe you could keep the current extenders in the game, so that shield scouts have a way to increase HP without such a large penalty, in the same way that armour scouts have ferroscale plates to reduce the weight reduction.
Scouts wouldn't be able to fit the super heavy plates, the hp abuff would be lower for them, and a reductio of fitting + cloak fitting bonus buff would make it hard for them to use thesemodswithout butchering their own utility.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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