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Encrypted Strongbox - moving closer to P2W

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Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1163	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:29:00 - [1] - Quote So, since you can purchase keys for AUR one could say this essentially means: pay money -> receive officer weapons I have my concerns about this and I sure hope CCP will monitor the effects very closely. I really don't want this to be a way for people with too much money on their hands to gain a ton of officer weapons and stomp even harder than before. But to determine this we first have to see how frequently boxes and keys will drop. Still, either way, I'm not sure we are moving in the right direction here. I understand that CCP has to earn money, but giving away more powerful gear for AUR doesn't sound like the best of ideas to me. You have been scanned
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2365	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:37:00 - [2] - Quote but strongboxes are only available via salvage. buying thousands of keys for AUR is worthless if you only get two strongbox drops :P /thread Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
al nize mk2 No Skillz inc. 210	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:38:00 - [3] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: So, since you can purchase keys for AUR one could say this essentially means: pay money -> receive officer weapons I have my concerns about this and I sure hope CCP will monitor the effects very closely. I really don't want this to be a way for people with too much money on their hands to gain a ton of officer weapons and stomp even harder than before. But to determine this we first have to see how frequently boxes and keys will drop. Still, either way, I'm not sure we are moving in the right direction here. I understand that CCP has to earn money, but giving away more powerful gear for AUR doesn't sound like the best of ideas to me. I haven't been following all this - can you clarify what these boxes and keys are for me? much appreciated! GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
Stevez Wingyip Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:39:00 - [4] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: So, since you can purchase keys for AUR one could say this essentially means: pay money -> receive officer weapons I have my concerns about this and I sure hope CCP will monitor the effects very closely. I really don't want this to be a way for people with too much money on their hands to gain a ton of officer weapons and stomp even harder than before. But to determine this we first have to see how frequently boxes and keys will drop. Still, either way, I'm not sure we are moving in the right direction here. I understand that CCP has to earn money, but giving away more powerful gear for AUR doesn't sound like the best of ideas to me. Get them from missions. Next.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6276	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:46:00 - [5] - Quote You get them every time you play a match and can get them through daily missions. It's far from P2W. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Darrius Smithmage 72	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:51:00 - [6] - Quote I fill like people just say p2w but I have no idea what it means I am a calmando.I will fight for Caldari faction warfare even if 15 members are redline snipers I'll be fighting.
Edau Skir2 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.12.03 11:58:00 - [7] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: but strongboxes are only available via salvage. buying thousands of keys for AUR is worthless if you only get two strongbox drops :P /thread I agree with this chap, the only way it would be op is if the person mass-buying the hacked keys was so lucky that they got at least 2 boxes everytime they played. Something tells me they'll be a bit of data encryption at play here anyway. Such as the keys bought with aurum will yield less valuable items from the boxes as opposed to keys found from salvage. Sounds unlikely, but with all the technological coding going into gaming these days, easily a possibility
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 365	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:09:00 - [8] - Quote We don't know the droprate of keys and boxes yet. Anyway we're not gonna get some at every battle that's for sure. What we can see on the picture is that (very easy) daily missions give you boxes but we dont see keys in the picture. We'll have to check if we can also earn these keys from daily missions, and if so, how many of them do you get ompared to the ammount of boxes you can earn ^^ I hope it won't be like Guild Wars 2 where you were getting boxes by hundreds everyday, but keys were so rare that you needed to buy them. I fear this for Dust. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 210	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:13:00 - [9] - Quote In the same sentence which says you can purchase the keys (which you obviously read) it says the keys can also be earned through the daily missions "Hacked Decryptor Keys can also be earned by completing Daily Missions and/or purchased for AUR."
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1165	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:22:00 - [10] - Quote al nize mk2 wrote: I haven't been following all this - can you clarify what these boxes and keys are for me? much appreciated! How I understand this is after a match there is a chance that these strongboxse are dropping. These strongboxes contain rare items like officer gear, and can only be opened with keys. These keys can also drop from salvage, you can obtain them by completing daily missions, and you can buy them for AUR. Now, we don't know the droprates of those items and we don't know how common it will be to get keys and boxes for daily missions. Ghosts Chance wrote: but strongboxes are only available via salvage. buying thousands of keys for AUR is worthless if you only get two strongbox drops :P It all depends on the droprates of boxes and keys. And all I'm doing is raising concerns about this. If you get two boxes a match and each contains X amounts of an officer weapons, but keys only drop every 20th match, someone with lots of money can get himself a nice supply of powerful gear for money. Also, boxes will also be obtainable by completing daily missions. Darrius Smithmage wrote: I fill like people just say p2w but I have no idea what it means Care to explain then what p2w really means? It sure is p2w if you can pay money to get more powerful weapons. Now if these weapons can also randomly drop for everyone, but people who pay money can get those much more frequently it isn't p2w? Is that what you are trying to say? --- If this system's intention is NOT to increase the number of officer weapons obtained, then why implement it in the first place? Why did we have to change from a random drop system for everyone to a system where people who pay money potentially have an easier access to officer gear? And if the intention was just to increase the amount of officer gear, then why not increase overall droprates? It just doesn't make sense to me to implement such a system if the goal was not to give more powerful weapons to people with more money. You have been scanned

Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 366	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:24:00 - [11] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: In the same sentence which says you can purchase the keys (which you obviously read) it says the keys can also be earned through the daily missions "Hacked Decryptor Keys can also be earned by completing Daily Missions and/or purchased for AUR." Wasnt sure about it^^ Now read the newt part of my sentence please. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
WARxion ForDUST G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 153	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:35:00 - [12] - Quote It would be P2W if you could get the keys only by AUR. Yes, I'm that desperate...
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 210	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:36:00 - [13] - Quote Since they've managed to avoid p2w so far I'm giving them the benefit of doubt Most likely that more boxes will drop through salvage and more keys will be given through missions. Aur allows those that are time poor and can't get 16k wp in one day a chance to pay for that time and get the keys
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1166	Posted - 2014.12.03 12:39:00 - [14] - Quote WARxion ForDUST wrote: It would be P2W if you could get the keys only by AUR. So it's not p2w as long as there is a chance that everyone can get those weapons no matter how tiny the chances are? It's not p2w when people with money can run these weapons regularly and people who don't want to pay can't? You have been scanned

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 1373	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:25:00 - [15] - Quote Plus paying money for keys opening a box with contents I don't use was a waste of my money. Since I wouldn't be surprised if the contents of the box is just like the stupid salvage of today - play only as a sniper and get only officer shotguns, play as a shotgunner and only get sniper rifles... worthless salvage. Last time I saw a Thale in my drop was before I tried sniping for the first time, and that's soon two years ago. /c DUSTSearch DUSTBoard DUST Server Status

Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1166	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:32:00 - [16] - Quote ChribbaX wrote: Plus paying money for keys opening a box with contents I don't use was a waste of my money. Since I wouldn't be surprised if the contents of the box is just like the stupid salvage of today - play only as a sniper and get only officer shotguns, play as a shotgunner and only get sniper rifles... worthless salvage. Last time I saw a Thale in my drop was before I tried sniping for the first time, and that's soon two years ago. /c This is true, for now. But as we can see on the roadmap there is "simple trading" planned for the next release after 1.10, coming sometime in February. So, if you don't get the officer weapon of you choice you will be able to simply trade it for the one that you want to have. You have been scanned
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1041	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:53:00 - [17] - Quote Guys, explain me pls, keys 4 this boxes - only 4 aurum? 0o Please support fair play!
Ryme Intrinseca Dead Man's Game RUST415 2163	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:58:00 - [18] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: but strongboxes are only available via salvage. buying thousands of keys for AUR is worthless if you only get two strongbox drops :P That depends on the frequency of strongbox drops versus key drops. If there are ten strongbox drops for every key drop it is very much PTW.
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1167	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:00:00 - [19] - Quote John Psi wrote: Guys, explain me pls, keys 4 this boxes - only 4 aurum? 0o No, there are 3 ways to get keys: Salvage at the end of match. Reward for completing daily missions. Purchase keys with AUR. You have been scanned
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 274	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:11:00 - [20] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Since they've managed to avoid p2w so far I'm giving them the benefit of doubt Most likely that more boxes will drop through salvage and more keys will be given through missions. Aur allows those that are time poor and can't get 16k wp in one day a chance to pay for that time and get the keys They didn't manage to avoid P2W at all. You can buy respecs for AUR. Pay money, undo mistakes, have better character than everyone else, win. You can now triple boost, if you spend more money you get a hell of a lot more SP, your character will soon be much stronger than everyone who doesn't constantly boost. Winning. This game is already P2W.

Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2178	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:27:00 - [21] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: It would be P2W if you could get the keys only by AUR. So it's not p2w as long as there is a chance that everyone can get those weapons no matter how tiny the chances are? It's not p2w when people with money can run these weapons regularly and people who don't want to pay can't? We don't even know the drop rates. For all we know, as so far, we could end up with more salvage/mission keys then lockboxs. Sit the fuk down and wait until certain of how this works. I Live for Tears
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2118	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:33:00 - [22] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: ChribbaX wrote: Plus paying money for keys opening a box with contents I don't use was a waste of my money. Since I wouldn't be surprised if the contents of the box is just like the stupid salvage of today - play only as a sniper and get only officer shotguns, play as a shotgunner and only get sniper rifles... worthless salvage. Last time I saw a Thale in my drop was before I tried sniping for the first time, and that's soon two years ago. /c This is true, for now. But as we can see on the roadmap there is "simple trading" planned for the next release after 1.10, coming sometime in February. So, if you don't get the officer weapon of you choice you will be able to simply trade it for the one that you want to have. And this is where someone like Chribba can become useful. Simple trading is the ability to give another merc something from your inventory. They then give you money, like you can already. This means there is element of trust and of course, the ability to scam. Anyone wanting to become a trusted broker, taking a cut of the transaction is going to be a popular merc. As to drop rates for the keys, they are of course not going to drop all the time or it'll be rather pointless having locked strongboxes at all. But they're not going to be the hens teeth that Thales or Balacs are, you'll just have grind a bit for them. Plus you have the daily missions giving them as rewards. The Aur variant is for lazy swine like myself who dont have the time to grind. Pay 2 Win would be having then as Aur only. That isn't the case here. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Darrius Smithmage 76	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:55:00 - [23] - Quote WARxion ForDUST wrote: It would be P2W if you could get the keys only by AUR. This and in most cases it pay to get faster. Also it not that only officer gear out you might just get something like a gek from it. P2W is buying something with real money and there no way or you to it from just playing the game. Plus can't buy boxs just keys. And keys are worthless anyway unless you play the game for box's. So again sense keys can be gain from things such as missions it not p2w period. I am a calmando.I will fight for Caldari faction warfare even if 15 members are redline snipers I'll be fighting.
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 275	Posted - 2014.12.03 14:58:00 - [24] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: ChribbaX wrote: Plus paying money for keys opening a box with contents I don't use was a waste of my money. Since I wouldn't be surprised if the contents of the box is just like the stupid salvage of today - play only as a sniper and get only officer shotguns, play as a shotgunner and only get sniper rifles... worthless salvage. Last time I saw a Thale in my drop was before I tried sniping for the first time, and that's soon two years ago. /c This is true, for now. But as we can see on the roadmap there is "simple trading" planned for the next release after 1.10, coming sometime in February. So, if you don't get the officer weapon of you choice you will be able to simply trade it for the one that you want to have. If we could give each other AUR items like boosters and respecs I think the whole P2W argument would be eliminated. With the ability to buy them off other players for items or ISK, they could be attained without spending money - yet the demand for these items would grow as they would now be available to people who do not spend real money on the game. People would buy boosters for AUR in order to sell to other players for ISK or Officer weapons, and because of this booster and respec sales would grow. CCP get increased sales and players get AUR items without having to spend AUR. It's a win for everyone.
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 104	Posted - 2014.12.03 15:37:00 - [25] - Quote The logic of this game is 'pay to reduce grind' which really helps the people that have to... you know... work and stuff. Enjoy playing on the servers though, you're welcome my KDR = 0.62 my contributions = elite pack, mercenary pack, tactical edition Seriously though... you're welcome. See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10388	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:49:00 - [26] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: It would be P2W if you could get the keys only by AUR. So it's not p2w as long as there is a chance that everyone can get those weapons no matter how tiny the chances are? It's not p2w when people with money can run these weapons regularly and people who don't want to pay can't? Exactly. Pay to Win implies or means that you can purchase an advantage that no one else can access with any other means. Of course, by that definition, BPOs use to fall into that category until you realize that A) every player has access to starter suits from the moment their character has been created and B) you can earn faction variants of APEX suits through the Faction Warfare Loyalty Store which are actually better than the starter suits though not as good as an ADV ISK-variant fittings. And since we know for sure that "simple trading" is now on the list of things CCP wants to add to Dust later on -- according to the Trello board they posted in the 1.10 patch notes -- the pay to win scenario will only be vastly eliminated if players are given the ability to trade AUR items in exchange for ISK. If there is any P2W scenario remaining at all in Dust. Again, P2W means getting an advantage that others can't get without paying cash. The only few P2W scenarios I can think of are Jara Kumora the Market Agent with her 15% bonus to item sell back value -- even then you don't get much in return even for proto and complex items -- and the Templar Suits but even then you can sell the codes to another player for ISK via the Code Bazaar section of the Dust forums which is the closest thing we have so far to "simple trading". Code Bazaar https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=1683 Respecs hardly qualify as P2W. I use to think they would be P2W until I realized a few things after their recent implementation. Given how they are designed in Dust -- no SP refund for corporation skills, only 80% ISK refund for skill books and they're a bit pricey -- and given how SP in Dust never equates to winning a match, respecs don't really help you win especially against veteran players who grind a lot of SP for free and knew how to carefully invest their SP ahead of time. Also, respecs are meant more for allowing players to adapt to any game play changes CCP makes if they are not in the mood to grind more SP. But for players like me who already invested their SP into core skills that affect all suit types, dabbled into being Jack of all Trades, and kept a reserve of leftover unallocated SP, these game play changes hardly affect the veterans who grind for free. They are also meant to help players undue their mistakes they made early on in their careers -- which to be honest is a concept I don't really like as I believe all players should live with their mistakes. The only exception I make to this is for new players who just got started with the game since this is a very confusing game after all and we don't have any of the tools so far for new players that could help them make the right decisions for them early on. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17955	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:51:00 - [27] - Quote I am pretty sure the plan is to have both keys and strong boxes be very obtainable via ingame activities. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10388	Posted - 2014.12.03 16:54:00 - [28] - Quote Mahal Daj wrote: The logic of this game is 'pay to reduce grind' which really helps the people that have to... you know... work and stuff. Enjoy playing on the servers though, you're welcome my KDR = 0.62 my contributions = elite pack, mercenary pack, tactical edition Seriously though... you're welcome. my KDR = 0.92 my contributions = merc pack, 'Quafe' scout suit, and Jara Kumora Funny, I was in a squad last night when everyone was acting like 5.0 KDR was too low for them and I was like LOL as I looked at my own KDR. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2256	Posted - 2014.12.03 17:11:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am pretty sure the plan is to have both keys and strong boxes be very obtainable via ingame activities. If the droprate is the same there is no point to implementing the option to buy keys for AUR. So surely the droprate for keys will be significantly lower than boxes, which may or may not be a "problem" depending on how low that droprate is. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.


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