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Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1599	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:24:00 - [1] - Quote CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games.
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1010	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:26:00 - [2] - Quote 5/10 SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
Skullmiser Vulcansu 208	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:36:00 - [3] - Quote It depends on the suit. Shield upgrades are vital for a Caldari sentinel, but I have a hard time justifying spending the SP when I mostly use Amarr Logistics suits. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 51	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:43:00 - [4] - Quote NO!
OliX PRZESMIEWCA Bezimienni... Dark Taboo 218	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:44:00 - [5] - Quote Skullmiser Vulcansu wrote: It depends on the suit. Shield upgrades are vital for a Caldari sentinel, but I have a hard time justifying spending the SP when I mostly use Amarr Logistics suits. What U got on left side? Put shields and skill in shields upgrades anyway. That extra HP sometimes matter.
shaman oga Krullefor Organization 3284	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:47:00 - [6] - Quote Why not delete all the skill tree? Wait... i've heard of game called battlefield, there is no skill tree there. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1599	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:53:00 - [7] - Quote Skullmiser Vulcansu wrote: It depends on the suit. Shield upgrades are vital for a Caldari sentinel, but I have a hard time justifying spending the SP when I mostly use Amarr Logistics suits. Thats not what i'm talking about though. In your situation, you are only taking into account one skill. It's ALL the skills that work together to add up and give massive bonuses to any suit. Level up all your shields, CPU/PG, and module skills and watch your overall health increase by several hundred. Start a new character and see for yourself. Health mods give less, they are harder to fit, your base health is lower. It all adds up
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1599	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:55:00 - [8] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Why not delete all the skill tree? Wait... i've heard of game called battlefield, there is no skill tree there. Irrelevant non argument. Having static health upgrades does not set Dust apart from Battlefield. Are you kidding me?
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1336	Posted - 2014.11.23 19:14:00 - [9] - Quote Core skills need their sp cost lowered. i only got 18 cpu from level 4 electronics. I mean thats to low Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2014.11.23 19:16:00 - [10] - Quote I have not used my prototype sentinel suits on put points into core skills because it would lessen my enjoyment of the game, I think there should be occasional optional events where there is an effort to make things less lopsided and more balanced Maybe cheap suits and cheap militia weapons of all types, This would let you try out gear and check if something is better.

Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2715	Posted - 2014.11.23 19:19:00 - [11] - Quote While I do agree that there shouldn't be as difficult for new players as it is, the Passive Skill tree is really not the problem. It is lack of matchmaking that puts people in dedicated squads with high level gear and SP against people that are wondering why some people are Pro while others, apparently, have Sexually Transmitted Diseases. Yes, it took my a while to figure out what the hell the 3 letters meant on a suit when I was brand new. Getting more base Shield and Armor is a fairly limited amount. For a medium suit, it is probably around 100 HP, or about 3 bullets of an Assault Rifle. More CPU and PG is only useful if you are pushing the limit of your suit. New players are not doing this, so it isn't really a factor. Yes, the modules do scale quite sharply. While Shields have been made better, 33-50-66 is still a really sharp curve for Shield Extenders. A Skill Tree is always going to have some level of unfairness it regards to "I have 15 million and you have 900,000; har dee har har" but I think DUST isn't completely terrible. The number of 6 to 8 million for a Prototype role is thrown around quite a bit. After that, you are just growing wider rather than taller. But it is a slippery slope and quite annoying to have to balance "Player Investment" versus "Player friendly" when it comes to what skills should do. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 508	Posted - 2014.11.23 19:45:00 - [12] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games. 0/0 core skills are the first things you should skill into. If you're not wearing proto, you're doing it wrong.
shaman oga Krullefor Organization 3286	Posted - 2014.11.23 19:54:00 - [13] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: shaman oga wrote: Why not delete all the skill tree? Wait... i've heard of game called battlefield, there is no skill tree there. Irrelevant non argument. Having static health upgrades does not set Dust apart from Battlefield. Are you kidding me? Not so irrelevant, your main point is to nerf core skills because new players have troubles, core skills do not cost an incredible amount o SP, nerf them equates to give no purpose to the whole skill tree. First of all CCP should find a way to teach new players how to [tutorial for different game elements]. Then matchmaking should be fixed, Scotty still like to put 2 squads against randoms. Core skills are fine as they are, otherwise they would be subsidiary skills and not core skills. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
Texas Killionaire Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 299	Posted - 2014.11.23 19:57:00 - [14] - Quote omg. Another "nerf whatever advantage my opponent has because I can't be bothered to actually Git Gud" thread. amazing If you're not ready to lose, you're not ready to win. Jello Biafra = God AQUPI
AK Cyberdemon Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 18	Posted - 2014.11.23 20:51:00 - [15] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games. Git Gud Scrub.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2500	Posted - 2014.11.23 20:58:00 - [16] - Quote Ask for a proper battle academy that help players make educated decisions on how to spend and invest their SP. Ask for a Militia game mode... That only allows Militia items to be used. Ask for Militia items to no longer register skill bonuses, to allow for everyone to participate in the game mode, while incentivizing The Militia user to invest into Standard versions for the non MLT game mode. Taking away the scope of skill bonuses and then applying it in a blanket to suits instead creates much the same problem with less of a decision around building up your character and more just racing for the item. "I Dont need electronics 5 I need a Minmatar Proto Assault" There are those who race straight for the item to realize it was a mistake. And those who max out core skills and arre stuck with ADV level items, but still out perform the person who raced for the item.. This has made amazing dynamics on the battlefield and amazing gameplay in competition tat would be non existent without the skill layout working like it does... It does the same thing in EVE online. Blaming a new players position in DUST because of Veterans is assbackwards thinking. A Developer BUILDS a new player experience for their bottom line, To keep their new gained users and potential revenue streams. DUST has spent to no time on battle academy and a new player friendly game mode. CCP knows that throwing a new player up against 2 year old vets is absolutely ret.arded... Yet they ave done nothing about it. Blame CCP's lazzyness... They know better yet they just don't.. The exact explanation of lazyness.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2501	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:00:00 - [17] - Quote Ask for a proper battle academy that help players make educated decisions on how to spend and invest their SP. Ask for a Militia game mode... That only allows Militia items to be used. Ask for Militia items to no longer register skill bonuses, to allow for everyone to participate in the game mode, while incentivizing The Militia user to invest into Standard versions for the non MLT game mode. Taking away the scope of skill bonuses and then applying it in a blanket to suits instead creates much the same problem with less of a decision around building up your character and more just racing for the item. "I Dont need electronics 5 I need a Minmatar Proto Assault" There are those who race straight for the item to realize it was a mistake. And those who max out core skills and arre stuck with ADV level items, but still out perform the person who raced for the item.. This has made amazing dynamics on the battlefield and amazing gameplay in competition that would be non existent without the skill layout working like it does... It does the same thing in EVE online. Blaming a new players position in DUST because of Veterans is assbackwards thinking. A Developer BUILDS a new player experience for their bottom line, To keep their new gained users and potential revenue streams. DUST has spent little to no time on battle academy and a new player friendly game mode. CCP knows that throwing a new player up against 2 year old vets is absolutely ret.arded... Yet they ave done nothing about it. Blame CCP's lazzyness... They know better yet they just don't.. The exact explanation of lazyness.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5051	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:03:00 - [18] - Quote Nah. I prefer the new players suffer tbh. It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2501	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:03:00 - [19] - Quote Texas Killionaire wrote: omg. Another "nerf whatever advantage my opponent has because I can't be bothered to actually Git Gud" thread. amazing Oh and for these people who think Protocake isn't "Gud"? I Laugh at you... The kid is a beast. At every minute he has ever played DUST.
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:12:00 - [20] - Quote I agree, I shouldn't have to spend my sp getting more HP or more CPU and pg, instead I should be able to put it in 15 different weps and 5 different suits (which I'll radomly level to 3 or 4, if it takes more than a week to do I won't put sp in it)

Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 309	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:39:00 - [21] - Quote It's as much a RPG as a FPS, this would destroy the whole RPG part. In MMORPG, do you ask lvl 90 people to use T1 pvp stuff because they are one shoting you otherwise? No, they r*ape you with a t17+ full stuff and YOU are the one who needs to play to reach them and kill them. It's the exact same thing with DUST. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2280	Posted - 2014.11.23 22:27:00 - [22] - Quote The obvious answer is for all newbros to spend their SP on armor/shields. What's the issue again?
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 437	Posted - 2014.11.23 23:27:00 - [23] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games. Tanking modules are the problem. Starter fit can have small piece of what proto suit is capable of, and this progression is not transparent to weapons damage - so proto will always kill militia first because mlt have lower ehp. We can tall that this mechanic works on benefit of someones who suck at aiming but very much want to play game, but those differences equalizing and work in opposite way when good at aiming player skill up uber tank, and he can kill everything. Despite the defects CCP will not resignate from this system.. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4707	Posted - 2014.11.24 00:57:00 - [24] - Quote Except, a Frontline suit still sucks even if you have every skill in the game at 5.
Lloyd Orfay Kinsho Swords Caldari State 233	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:20:00 - [25] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games. All core skills have even done: Sink a shitload of SP into something you can't always benefit from through levels 1-3 Once you get 4+ you have a constant advantage against almost everyone, unfairly doing things where you can actually sneak up against a suit meant for finding stealth units. Only thing worth skilling into is ewar, and yet that imbalances gameplay. Besides that, basic suit are also ridiculous SP sinks, so is the skill granting permission to weaponry, so is the light weaponry skill, in which players should get any weapon they can as early as possible but can't. The fact that you aren't rewarded a certain weapon/equipment variant for each level on a equipment/ weapon skill is also wasting sp. Majority of things that exist you cannot benefit from up until 4+, and that may take you most of a month to actually get the SP for it. "Class, what is the genus that the pig comes from?" "Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher"
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2346	Posted - 2014.11.24 06:05:00 - [26] - Quote Doesn't take long for newbros to get lvl 3 in a double handful of core skills and a single suit/role. But it is kinda an intelligence test and it's one of the reasons DUST is different and interesting. Would hate to see that watered down. I'd much rather see the newbros get a big boost in WP payouts for assists and kills when facing high WP/mu players. PSN: RationalSpark
Steve WINGYIPz Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.11.24 06:18:00 - [27] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games. I agree with getting rid of boring skills that do nothing but unlock the next tier but I don't mind fitting skills as they do actually give you something. Even if they are time gates.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2109	Posted - 2014.11.24 06:22:00 - [28] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Why not delete all the skill tree? Wait... i've heard of game called battlefield, there is no skill tree there. nowp.. battlefield is going the way of cod because EA just wont stop flogging that dead horse #[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2402	Posted - 2014.11.24 08:01:00 - [29] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games. So because new players don't know what to do, everything else should be nerfed to accommodate them? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
axis alpha Red Star. EoN. 364	Posted - 2014.11.24 08:25:00 - [30] - Quote are you ******* serious............. I cut you up so bad.... You gonna wish I no cut you up so bad.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1469	Posted - 2014.11.24 13:20:00 - [31] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: The obvious answer is for all newbros to spend their SP on armor/shields. What's the issue again? They even start you out now when you create a character , eventhough I thought they shouldn't take that out of the pool that they give when starting and you don't get as much ISK , another thing that they shouldn't have changed . Should just start out with what they give now along with what was before . Now it would just seem like a penalty for not knowing what to do when first starting . I agree more with being instructive though , there's not much emphasis in that area . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Marcus Stormfire G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 37	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:36:00 - [32] - Quote One of the biggest mistakes I have made was not to skill into my core skills as soon as I could. They provide bonuses to all suits. Profile Dampening, Range Amplification, Precision Enhancement skills benefit all suits. No need to nerf the core skills since everyone has access to the same bonuses when they skill into them. Thus giving no-one an unfair advantage. -Marcus -I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1543	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:47:00 - [33] - Quote A radical notion but it has some merit. Hard skill bonuses are bad in general. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5070	Posted - 2014.11.24 15:57:00 - [34] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CPU/PG, shield and armor skills should only give 10% bonuses, just like the shield/armor module skills. These 5 skills, when leveled up all the way as they are, give too much of an advantage. I've been looking at the militia/starter suits i've been ganking and these medium suits only have around 350 total hp. My light suits, and others i've seen have that much or more thanks to core skills. This is absurd. It's no wonder why people don't try anymore and stop playing after their first few real matches after the academy. Alternatively, you can just completely get rid of these SP sinks and the game would be much more balanced because of it. This is coming from someone with max core skills, and someone who wants better games. I don't agree on Electronics (CPU) and Engineering (PG) because you don't really have to level them too far early on. It is only when you have skilled into higher end modules that use more PC/CPU that you need to skill farther into Electronics and Engineering. So, this is not a direct and immediate impact on new players. However I accept that your argument has merit when it comes to the Shield and Armour skills. It would be reasonable to change the bonuses for these skills from +5 per level to +2 per level, and then add 15% to the base health of all suits to maintain the current balance. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 582	Posted - 2014.11.24 16:05:00 - [35] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: A radical notion but it has some merit. Hard skill bonuses are bad in general. Bad for what? Bad for random casuals? Bad for people who want fast action without an ever-so-slight investment of intelligent decision making? "What's a character sheet? I just want to shoot faces durr." Hard skill bonuses are preferred over unlocking equipment or simply unlocking other skills. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]


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