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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
140
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Posted - 2014.11.22 05:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Do you happen to have the link to the original quote? I went looking for it for 45 minutes and couldn't find it and would like to double check my assertion.
Don't bother- considering your exact words were:
Imp Smash wrote:The DPS and accuracy on the ACR are both pretty good. They tear through armor and shields. It is the most bought / highest KDR light rifle in PC (as per last released stats.)
Basically, it's already a very good weapon.
(Emphasis mine)
You're still correct- you specifically indicate that of all the racial rifles (which are light weapons), the ACR has the highest kill ratio on PC matches.
RRs, ARs, and ScRs of all varieties are significantly lower on the totem pole... to the point that, IIRC, they aren't even listed. While it is true that shotgun scouts, HMG heavies, and missile Pythons are higher up on the list, none of them are racial rifles.
I would also like to mention that, personally, I consider CRs/ACRs to still be borderline overpowered, considering that proto variants cost less PG than most proto sidearms.
Seriously, an IoP/BP/Magsec/SMG/AScP all cost more grid than the CR/ACR at proto... and in general, actually. 3 PG at STD is not a bad value. But 4 PG at ADV, and freakin' 8 PG at PRO? Yeah, that seems pretty broken to me that a proto light weapon is sucking less PG than most proto sidearms, and is generally sitting at anywhere from 40-60% the PG consumption of almost every other light weapon in the game.
Then of course, there's the scrambler, which is hogging around two and a half to four times as much PG as the CR/ACR... which, IMO, is an indication that the CR needs it's PG requirements to be increased.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
140
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 06:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:if you disregard fitting as that is not the issue here.. you go shoot a proto cal assault with a CR or ACR and you will find you die faster then them.. and will mostlikly die alot against shield tankers.. UNLESS you get the drop on them or catch them with their shields down.
...I brought up the absurdly low fitting in part because the whole "hey, CR/ACR takes less PG than a proto sidearm" thing means you can basically be all "screw you, I have damage mods" with it.
Or you can brick tank like nothing else, since there's such an enormous amount of PG left over after fitting your weapon(s).
As far as CR/ACR struggling against shield tankers... working as intended, fool. It's got a 15% damage penalty against shields. If you're so butthurt about it, then considering carrying flux grenades, a scrambler pistol, or both.
You think the ACR struggles against shield suits? You obviously don't know what it's like to try and hammer through a heavy-duty armor brick using a scrambler.
Further, whatever you may try to say to the contrary, the ACR is still the top racial rifle in PC matches. I'm sure that there can't possibly be a reason for that, hmm? /sarcasm
While I do admit to spec'ing out of the CR, it's not because the gun is bad- in fact, I still feel like I would be able to build a superior logi fit using an ACR instead of an ARR... but I just prefer the feel of the ARR, even if it does suck down three bloody times the PG of an ACR.
If you'd like a TL;DR: then here it is: stop whining that your gun has drawbacks. All guns have drawbacks, and this is only right.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
140
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 07:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't think you understood me in the slightest, because if you had, you would be thinking less "Amarr Assault+ScR" and more "everybody else".
Literally, you can use a CR/ACR on, say, a scout suit or a logi and have vastly more PG to fill out your fit than any other weapon in the game.
Take, for example, the Amarr Logi. Or even the Amarr Scout for that matter. It's pretty nearly impossible to fit a scrambler to the Amarr Logi and still be able to get anywhere near a useful tank- it demands the use of low-end mods and a minimum of Dropsuit Core Upgrades 5 and Engineering 4. In the case of the Scout suits, at low ends the fitting bonus to cloaks is simply not enough to be able to fit a weapon that draws more PG.
Bringing up a suit that not only has a glut of PG (that is then rapidly consumed by the armor tank and scrambler rifle), but also has a fitting bonus that reduces the PG requirement of light weapons, is a strawman- especially considering that ScR PG requirements are pretty much obscene enough that it requires every bit of PG reduction it can get, and the CR/ACR incidentally gains almost no benefit from PG reduction skills because the PG draw is already so bloody low.
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:you mean like the amarr proto assault 700 armor damage mods like 30 rep per sec AND a SCR ? yeah...
Citation needed on referenced fit.
While I do know that saxonmish has recently published several videos of him rocking an Assault ak.0 with a proto ScR, his fit appears to have 20 hp/second armor rep, damage mods (based on referencing his listed shield value in gameplay), and around 640-650 armor... that's not anywhere near "700 armor...30 rep per sec".
Also, take it from someone who has probably got a greater appreciation of all things Amarrian than you do... loading up on enhanced/complex armor plates on an Amarr suit is somewhere between "bloody idiotic" and "suicidal". And it's not even because you then lack reps.
Maybe I'll give you a cookie if you can figure out why you shouldn't do such things.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
143
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 19:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1307/9526
690.x armor hp, 30 or 31 hp/s, proto damage mod 2x, adv damage mod 1x, flux, smg so yeah.. there you have it.. and i was just like 1 pg off fitting a 3rd complex damage mod.. but swapping for an advanced alot let me slip in a compact nanohive.
#proovedyouwrong
First off, don't say "proved you wrong" unless you can actually spell "proved" correctly. It just makes you look like an idiot.
Secondly... that's not actually a great fit. I was able to build something better by:
Swapping a rep and both plates for 3x Complex ferroscales
Swapping that enhanced damage mod for a Complex Sidearm damage mod
Upgrading from basic flux and basic Breach SMG to Core Locus and a PRO Breach SMG.
It loses ~50 armor HP and ~10 reps per second... but it also gains 0.5-0.7 m/s movement/sprint speed, and about 0.4 m/s strafe speed.
For those tradeoffs... I'd say that PRO sidearm, PRO grenade, and a complex sidearm damage mod (the 3rd damage mod for the scrambler is actually of little benefit) are far better than 50 armor HP and 10 rep/second, given that compact nanos rep armor.
Of course, then I just had to try another idea- that being to fit a full rack of complex reactives. The results were thusly:
4.56 m/s move, 6.71 m/s sprint, 4.11 m/s strafe speeds; ~724 armor hp, 17 hp/s reps, and I was able to swap the compact nano for a K-2 ADV nano, so you can spam Core locus at people.
If that's too much in one go for you're tiny Minmatar brain, then I'll make it simpler: it's faster, has more armor, a better sidearm, and PRO grenades. Oh, and a better nano to resupply those grenades.
Congratulations, you are bad at fitting Amarr Assault suits.
You should listen to Breakin:
Breakin Stuff wrote:I love the argument here.
The CR is under performing because while it is flat out the mos successful battle rifle, completely unrelated weapons are beating it in usage statistics. Clearly it needs a buff...
Get out.
Because, you know, he's right. Seriously, he is.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
143
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 06:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:Coming from a CR user, yes it does need some more PG required. Because getting the fitting optimization skill makes you end up spending millions of SP on nothing.
I am slightly shocked that somebody agrees with me on this. It's not the end of the world is it? I don't have any popcorn...
VikingKong iBUN wrote:But both ACR and CR feel very weak compared to how they used to be, and seem to be consistently outperformed by Scramblers and ARs.
Well... I don't know what to say really. It might be that there's an uptick in people shield tanking- I know that I personally have been seeing a few more shield-tanked suits around, but that could just be my TZ or it could be perception bias.
The other option is that there could just be an uptick in people who've figured out how to abuse the inertialess strafe mechanics- mostly this is done using scout suits- and doing that does seem to break hitreg a lot.
Also, as far as ARs go... I think that right now everything is being outperformed by the Breach AR. I think I've seen the Burst AR once in the past 2-3 weeks, and TacARs show up once every few days it seems, and regular ARs show up regularly enough... just not to any real effect. The BAR though? Yeah, it seems to show up and then loudly make statements about how OP it is by killing everything in sight.
As far as ScRs... no comment. Partly because I am a huge ScR fan (and avid user), and I would say it makes me biased in the ScR's favor, but also because I find that the Scrambler only seems to really tear it up if the enemy is either shield/thinly/not tanked, or out-ranged.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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