DUST Search - [Suggestion for Community, CPM, and CCP consideration] EWAR System S...

Jathniel wrote:

korrah silain wrote:

Jathniel wrote:

Still putting pictures together.

Is the proposal hard to understand?

I believe I understand it, but am still concerned about the infinite range on remote hacking you proposed, I believe it should be limited in some way, not hugely, but just enough to prevent snipers from hacking across maps down their scopes, unless they specialize in it. I feel I am beating a dead horse and forgive my redundance if it offends, but I suggest an initial hacking range of 3 meters, with new moduals to extend the range...say...5x,10x,15x with medium to high stacking penalties, and/or an additional time to hack penalty per modual. I believe this would be a nice way to shake up the meta, and encourage people to move away from HP stacking as much, especially if it were made particularly valuable (I also suggest the ability to control turrets at range to add to this incentivation of wear focus)
That being said...I REALLY WANT AN EMP GRENADE HOW DO WE CALL DEV ATTENTION TO THIS!?!
(I'm kinda new on the forum...post wise anyway I've been lurking for awhile...)

No. Please. I'm NOT offended at all!
Disagreements when a valid point is made are completely welcome! lol
Pointless disagreements are what I frown at.

Elaborate a bit more on the hack range modifying modules. I can see something like that working in the high slots, so that the low slots can be occupied by codebreakers.

I did picture snipers making use of this. In fact, good snipers would become a very valuable resource because of all this.
How about removing the hack speed penalty cap? Instead of it capping at -99.5% at extreme ranges, it will simply not work.

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Jathniel G I A N T 1277	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:44:00 - [1] - Quote This is a 3-piece EWAR system proposal. Thesis: This proposed system is meant to externally balance, and expand EWAR gameplay in Dust 514; by the use of TACNET Jammers, LoS Hacking mechanics, and EMP Grenades. The tacnet jammers, are meant to blind all hostile suits within range; and there is nothing to stop the enemy team from throwing down their own. Mutually-assured blindness in EWAR (Chaos). Multiple jammers can be deployed in patterns, or scattered, to create vast fields of EWAR blindness. In turn, tacnet jammers can be destroyed (creating gaps in the field), or hacked (flipping an enemy field to be under your control). IF multiple tacnet jammers are within each other's radii, the entire composite interference field they create will be flipped if hacked. (Order) As a wild card, Hack Beams can be used to hack jammers (and other objects of opportunity) from a distance, outside of the jamming field, enabling long-distance field flipping. If LoS can be maintained. This expands EWAR, since you will have entire groups of players dedicated to either destroying or remotely maintaining control of the field, while simultaneously killing the enemy that's trying to do the same. Instead of just slayer squads, you'll have hacker squads as well. Control of the field would be absolutely vital, since a hostile jammer neutralizes all uplinks within its range, and has a chance at flipping some of those uplinks for enemy use as well. This puts EWAR maintenance and control in OUR hands. This makes it something that can be fought over, instead of something that exclusively belongs to Scouts and Gal Logis. This, coupled with EMP Grenades, which I proposed to work as a temporary ewar blinder, and cloak disabler, puts offensive ewar power in everyone's hands, WITHOUT taking away the advantages that Scouts and Gal logis can enjoy (low profile, broad scanning). Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1277	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:45:00 - [2] - Quote PART 1 - TACNET Jammers A deployable TACNET jammer that completely disables active and passive scanning for all hostile suits within X meters radius (range increases with tier). - The jammer will also create a barrier preventing an attacker's active scan readout done OUTSIDE of the field from being shared with their units WITHIN the field. - These jammers will also prevent the enemy from spawning on (but will not destroy) any uplinks caught within their radius (as the uplinks will be cut off from TACNET). Disable, or hack the jammers to regain access to the uplinks. - Red chevrons will only be present, when a target is in line-of-sight. - This can permit a defending squad or team to set up jamming zones. - The jammers can be destroyed just like any other piece of equipment. - However, If a hostile unit finds and hacks the jammer, every other jammer within that jammer's range is hacked, and the jamming field will then work against the defending team instead. - This effect can cascade, across all jammers no matter the range, so long as each jammer's radius is slightly overlapping. This will enable a "Chain Hack", which could potentially give large amounts of WP depending on the number of jammers that are linked, and number of uplinks blocked. - Only one to be carried at a time. - These jammers can be hacked remotely. Proposed jammer radii: std TACNET Jammer - 35m adv GIA-N7 TACNET Jammer - 70m pro Duvolle TACNET Jammer - 105m VS. Vehicles - Vehicles that breach the perimeter of the jammer are immune to its effects. (e.g. a dropship with active CRU, will not have its CRU disabled within the jamming field.) - Vehicle profiles cannot be hidden by the jammers. - Vehicles can equip "Active Jammer" modules, with reduced radii. Between 25-50m. Enabling them to electronically conceal infantry in their wake. - Vehicles with "Active Jammer" modules, can be used to hack infantry jammer fields, remotely. So long as they are within range. :) PART 2 - Line-Of-Sight Remote Hacking (Hack Beam Devices) A remote hacking device for long range hacks. (IR sight? Laser device? apply whatever name makes sense.) - Hacking range is theoretically unlimited. The greater the range, the longer the hack. (e.g. hacking an enemy turret within the enemy redline from YOUR redline would take dramatically longer, than hacking from in front of their redline.) - All hackable objects will be hackable at long range starting @ a -75% hack speed modifier. - The hack is considered "long range" starting at 7m. Distance penalties will start accruing at 150m, at a rate of -0.5% per additional 10m, and cap at -99.5% - Hacked objects cannot be controlled remotely. (e.g. you cannot pilot an enemy tank or turret remotely) - Multiple allies remotely hacking an object simultaneously will make the hack go SLOWER. 3 or more will completely halt the hack. But infantry hacking on the ground will hack faster with remote aid. - Previously mentioned TACNET Jammers, will be remotely hackable. - Remote hacking can be buffed by Codebreaker modules. :) PART 3 - EMP Grenades VS. Infantry - Temporarily, completely scrambles enemy HUD. - Temporarily, prevents ADS with scoped weapons. (Scopes being electro-mechanical.) - Permanently [Temporarily], severs a hostile's connection to TACNET. That hostile can perform no scanning or scan-sharing until repaired via logi repair tool, or dropsuit is swapped via supply depot. [EDIT: Duration for tacnet disconnection should be discussed.] - Forces a 100% cooldown time on active cloaks (scouts NOT cloaked, will not have their cloak field reset). - Destroys [Temporarily] disables equipment. [EDIT: For a larger effective blast radius.] - Does NOT disable shields. VS. Vehicles - Temporarily, completely scrambles HUD. - Temporarily severs TACNET connection. - Forces a 100% cooldown time on running active modules (active modules NOT running, will not have their active modules reset). - Does NOT disable shields. - Does NOT home in on vehicles. - Nade must hit vehicle directly; splash will not trigger the procs. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1277	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:46:00 - [3] - Quote There are notable potential additions to this system: Including Hack Relays and augmentation mechanics for Active Scanners. Details of which have not yet been worked out. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
korrah silain True Illuminate 3	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:04:00 - [4] - Quote ok so my .02 isk on expanding ewar i dont think i had anything to add into part one remote hacking: i propose limiting range smoehow to prevent redliners from abusing this with little to no risk, my initial suggestion being we have alternate code breaker modules to give a finite range amplification to the hacks, allowing for limited rmote hacking while still requiring suits to risk manuvering themselves into neutral territorry. i also propose remote operation for turrets using these moduals. this may go some way to mitigating the problem of hp tanked scouts. however it has also been suggested that a piece of equipment be used instead (a hacking relay) and i conceptually like this idea, you deploy it on a target (must be placed on a turret, istallation, or objective) and while within its range you place the "detonate" button to initiate hack. only one is deployable at a time, better versions giving larger radiuses. this will allow for hackers to maintain tactical awareness, and is easily countered by a simple flux grenade destroying the equipment. emp grenades: by far my favorite idea here. essentially a "flashbang" disorientation weapon. downs ALL hud(including hipfire recticle, while possibly introducing minor static effects, and disables most non hp related moduals until the suit can boot up. further it disables all equipment both hand held and deployed while it is in effect (reboot times based on parent suit) and completely disables remote explosives without an explosion. further i propose we tune these effects to effect light frames for longer (sug. 8 seconds) medium frames for a modest time (sug. 5 seconds) and heavies for the shortest (sug. 3 seconds) due to increased shieldings and such. which brings me to my final idea: further ewar moduals that will mitigate the effects somehow (probably time limit, though if someone wants to maybe actually run numbers so this somehow works with the Db system that may work as well.)
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4771	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:14:00 - [5] - Quote Flux grenades are basically EMPs. And I know they're already quite powerful, and there's hesitation to add additional power/functionality to them. Remote hacking seems troublesome, particularly if it applies to existing hackables, like objectives, turrets, and vehicles. TACNET jammers aren't an inherently bad idea, though they'd need to be visible on the map themselves, more than likely, so you could find them and destroy them. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Terry Webber molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 498	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:18:00 - [6] - Quote I agree with you on the jammer. When it's deployed, its area of effect will appear as a darkened circle on the map and on the mini-map.
korrah silain True Illuminate 5	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:19:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Flux grenades are basically EMPs. And I know they're already quite powerful, and there's hesitation to add additional power/functionality to them. Remote hacking seems troublesome, particularly if it applies to existing hackables, like objectives, turrets, and vehicles. TACNET jammers aren't an inherently bad idea, though they'd need to be visible on the map themselves, more than likely, so you could find them and destroy them. So why not develop a fourth flavor of grenade like i outlined that disrupts infantry rather than destroying shield and equipment. The would then be LIKE flux but would still allow each to maintain specific roles. As for remote hacking keeping it tied to a piece of equipment or moduals would at least require choices be made (I particularly like the hack relay idea as it would be easy enough to counter with a flux grenade near said object
Vulpes Dolosus molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 2594	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:21:00 - [8] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Flux grenades are basically EMPs. And I know they're already quite powerful, and there's hesitation to add additional power/functionality to them. Remote hacking seems troublesome, particularly if it applies to existing hackables, like objectives, turrets, and vehicles. TACNET jammers aren't an inherently bad idea, though they'd need to be visible on the map themselves, more than likely, so you could find them and destroy them. I think OP was suggesting a new grenade, whether or not it's EMP or some other ECM lore-wise doesn't really matter except for flavor. But I agree to make them a new grenade and not add it to the flux. Yeah, remote hacking, even if it's only for one type of mod, doesn't appeal to me. I think some kind of hacking of enemy equipment would be interesting though. Also agree that the jammers should be visible within their effective range (or slightly beyond). Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Jathniel G I A N T 1277	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:33:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Flux grenades are basically EMPs. And I know they're already quite powerful, and there's hesitation to add additional power/functionality to them. Remote hacking seems troublesome, particularly if it applies to existing hackables, like objectives, turrets, and vehicles. TACNET jammers aren't an inherently bad idea, though they'd need to be visible on the map themselves, more than likely, so you could find them and destroy them. I understand. No changes were proposed for the Flux Grenades. The EMP Grenade proposed would be its own device, a less aggressive version of the flux. It doesn't bite you, but it messes with your head. The remote hacking would require a focused line of sight mechanic, that can easily be broken or cut off by a player's body, friend of foe. To get a good grasp of how fast the hacks would occur, subtract the hack speed penalty from the highest achievable hack speed percentage modifier. The entire intention is to provide more than one way of approaching hackables, and to ensure that the jamming field remains in a state of constant flux. EWAR would constantly be fought for. Instead of simply being established, and a game therefore decided. New players will catch on when they see how the field changes when they hack a jammer. Yeah, I wanted the jamming/distortion field itself to be clearly visible on the overview map or radar, but the actual position of the jammer would remain hidden, so as to promote gameplay biased in favor of field control instead of field destruction. As a principle, the jammer can be located at the center of its bubble. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1277	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:46:00 - [10] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Flux grenades are basically EMPs. And I know they're already quite powerful, and there's hesitation to add additional power/functionality to them. Remote hacking seems troublesome, particularly if it applies to existing hackables, like objectives, turrets, and vehicles. TACNET jammers aren't an inherently bad idea, though they'd need to be visible on the map themselves, more than likely, so you could find them and destroy them. I think OP was suggesting a new grenade, whether or not it's EMP or some other ECM lore-wise doesn't really matter except for flavor. But I agree to make them a new grenade and not add it to the flux. Yeah, remote hacking, even if it's only for one type of mod, doesn't appeal to me. I think some kind of hacking of enemy equipment would be interesting though. Also agree that the jammers should be visible within their effective range (or slightly beyond). You are correct with the grenade. The LoS hacking is vital to the proposal because it will help ensure that gameplay involving a jamming field (especially a large field) is balanced, and in a constant state of flux. If you remove the LoS hacking from this trifecta, it will adversely effect balance, and the hacker team gameplay I'm trying to promote. Hackers have to be within a reasonable range, AND have line-of-sight to effect the field. Hackers or stealth teams can combat each other outside of the field, in order to control the field. In turn, since the field disables uplinks (and has a chance at flipping them), the remote hacks can snag CRUs, to give an attacking team a fast rebound position. This is deliberate. Physical control of an area, is determined by slayer teams. Electronic control of that same area, can be determined hackers. If a field can simply be secured from the inside, and is under no danger of remote flipping, that defeats the entire point of the proposal. The idea is that if you want to establish a foothold, you will have to do it on two fronts. Physically, and electronically. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.

Jathniel G I A N T 1279	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:18:00 - [11] - Quote Still putting pictures together. Is the proposal hard to understand? Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
korrah silain True Illuminate 6	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:36:00 - [12] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Still putting pictures together. Is the proposal hard to understand? I believe I understand it, but am still concerned about the infinite range on remote hacking you proposed, I believe it should be limited in some way, not hugely, but just enough to prevent snipers from hacking across maps down their scopes, unless they specialize in it. I feel I am beating a dead horse and forgive my redundance if it offends, but I suggest an initial hacking range of 3 meters, with new moduals to extend the range...say...5x,10x,15x with medium to high stacking penalties, and/or an additional time to hack penalty per modual. I believe this would be a nice way to shake up the meta, and encourage people to move away from HP stacking as much, especially if it were made particularly valuable (I also suggest the ability to control turrets at range to add to this incentivation of wear focus) That being said...I REALLY WANT AN EMP GRENADE HOW DO WE CALL DEV ATTENTION TO THIS!?! (I'm kinda new on the forum...post wise anyway I've been lurking for awhile...)
Jathniel G I A N T 1282	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:10:00 - [13] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Jathniel wrote: Still putting pictures together. Is the proposal hard to understand? I believe I understand it, but am still concerned about the infinite range on remote hacking you proposed, I believe it should be limited in some way, not hugely, but just enough to prevent snipers from hacking across maps down their scopes, unless they specialize in it. I feel I am beating a dead horse and forgive my redundance if it offends, but I suggest an initial hacking range of 3 meters, with new moduals to extend the range...say...5x,10x,15x with medium to high stacking penalties, and/or an additional time to hack penalty per modual. I believe this would be a nice way to shake up the meta, and encourage people to move away from HP stacking as much, especially if it were made particularly valuable (I also suggest the ability to control turrets at range to add to this incentivation of wear focus) That being said...I REALLY WANT AN EMP GRENADE HOW DO WE CALL DEV ATTENTION TO THIS!?! (I'm kinda new on the forum...post wise anyway I've been lurking for awhile...) No. Please. I'm NOT offended at all! Disagreements when a valid point is made are completely welcome! lol Pointless disagreements are what I frown at. Elaborate a bit more on the hack range modifying modules. I can see something like that working in the high slots, so that the low slots can be occupied by codebreakers. I did picture snipers making use of this. In fact, good snipers would become a very valuable resource because of all this. How about removing the hack speed penalty cap? Instead of it capping at -99.5% at extreme ranges, it will simply not work. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
korrah silain True Illuminate 7	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:51:00 - [14] - Quote Jathniel wrote: korrah silain wrote: Jathniel wrote: Still putting pictures together. Is the proposal hard to understand? I believe I understand it, but am still concerned about the infinite range on remote hacking you proposed, I believe it should be limited in some way, not hugely, but just enough to prevent snipers from hacking across maps down their scopes, unless they specialize in it. I feel I am beating a dead horse and forgive my redundance if it offends, but I suggest an initial hacking range of 3 meters, with new moduals to extend the range...say...5x,10x,15x with medium to high stacking penalties, and/or an additional time to hack penalty per modual. I believe this would be a nice way to shake up the meta, and encourage people to move away from HP stacking as much, especially if it were made particularly valuable (I also suggest the ability to control turrets at range to add to this incentivation of wear focus) That being said...I REALLY WANT AN EMP GRENADE HOW DO WE CALL DEV ATTENTION TO THIS!?! (I'm kinda new on the forum...post wise anyway I've been lurking for awhile...) No. Please. I'm NOT offended at all! Disagreements when a valid point is made are completely welcome! lol Pointless disagreements are what I frown at. Elaborate a bit more on the hack range modifying modules. I can see something like that working in the high slots, so that the low slots can be occupied by codebreakers. I did picture snipers making use of this. In fact, good snipers would become a very valuable resource because of all this. How about removing the hack speed penalty cap? Instead of it capping at -99.5% at extreme ranges, it will simply not work. Well I don't have an opinion on which slots they would occupy(initially I thought as alternate versions of the codebreakers in the same veign of ferroscale and reactive plates are to armor) but again it doesn't matyer. I do agree that the speed penalty should be mitigated (still there but much less noticeable) because the moduals system forces people to specialize more, thus allowing for balance so say a sniper wants to skill into ewar: he decides to stack 2 adv moduals giving him 300meter hacking range, with a speed penalty of oh say 10%/modual, a not insignificant range(still requiring los) still allowing them to hack in a still timely manner...


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