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Llast 326
An Arkhos
5465
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Posted - 2014.11.19 01:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mr. Amadi I hope you don't mind me taking this Idea and putting it in a separate thread. I think the idea has merit and will likely be lost in the EWAR thread, and can be discussed more thoroughly in it's own thread
Aeon Amadi wrote:Originally, CCP wanted players to be able to shoot while cloaked (I have a quote that I can link if you guys need proof) and the community shot that down in a hurry. What we got as a result was... Well, being able to shoot before the de-cloak animation even finished.
It's been said several times that the Shotgun isn't what's over-powered and it's not, it was hardly ever changed since it's inception. What did change however is the Scouts, more importantly the implementation of the cloaking device. Which isn't bad, but the way the CPM 0 wanted the cloaking device to work was for movement from point a to point b. Not predator / 'gotcha' kills. Rightfully so as the entire gameplay mechanic is **** poor, annoying, and silly.
Cloaking is also a nice subject of debate. Judge Rhadamanthus (sp?) brought up the Toupee Fallacy:
"The arguer claims that they can always recognize when something is present. This is likely a fallacy because the arguer is not aware of all of the times that he/she did not recognize it."
The same applies to cloaking. How could you ever know of the times you -DID NOT- see a cloaked scout if the entire premise is that you did not see them?
That being said, we have to consider the factor that the cloaking device was, by the CPM 0 standards, meant for movement and not combat. So the exact contradiction is that cloaking devices are more powerful, visually, when standing still as opposed to moving. I think we could honestly reverse that to discourage camping by making them glow a brighter blue shade (more obvious) when holding still and the cloak being more powerful (perfect invisibility) when moving.
Now, hold your horses because I realize that this sounds contrary to a 'nerf' toward Scouts. The reason being for this change would be to open up more opportunities to hit the de-cloak harshly. Talking several seconds before the user can pull their weapon and begin firing. This way, we encourage the cloaking device for low-profile movement while at the same time encouraging more critical thinking on the Scout's behalf. It would encourage players to want to decloak -BEFORE- entering combat zones instead of making themselves vulnerable when they're already within the optimal range of their shotgun. Or as Arkena Wyrnspire put it, "the spleen removal zone".
Just my 0.02 ISK I recall the original concept and agree with how you explain it and the ensuing changes that followed. In fact I think if the original idea was implemented we would be in a different position of discussion and meta as a wholeGǪ but that is more crystal ball than we should discuss here
Little background and transparency here I have been running scout suits since they were arbiters, and I have no sp in any other suits but scouts, I have them all though. My main suit is Minja, though it is on another account than this one, (started as an alt, became my main lol) In general I run Cloak as a means of getting places relatively unseen, this being said it is more visible to move than to be still. It is not ideal. Cloak delay as it stands mostly affects charge weapons, minor affect to full auto weapons and virtually no change to semi auto weapons. Which seems to be the basis for the cloak fire problem. Your proposal will address the issue in a way that has been overlooked by many other suggestions that i have seen. It will make the cloak useful for movement purposes, while opening the opportunity to heavy hand the Fire Delay. Frankly it has to be heavier in order to impact semi auto weapons. At least according to what my tests have found.
What are your thoughts on removal or changing the Tacnet Blind feature of cloak if it is successfully changed to a maneuverability cloak?
MOAR Ladders
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14798
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Posted - 2014.11.19 02:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think it's a very good suggestion.
Incentivises use as a tactical tool and not as a weapons delivery system.
"The moment passed in thunder and calamitous intent and yet no order was given to retreat or give their ground"
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Vicious Minotaur
1354
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Posted - 2014.11.19 03:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm down with the idea.
As for the tacnet blind thing, why not tie that into movement as well? Stand still while cloaked, you are blinded (and more visible). Start moving, you can see more. Now, perhaps it is unnecessary to even keep it with the proposed change, but who knows. Added incentive to keep moving or make a tactical decloak if you need to see more.
Doesn't sound bad to me, but I don't cloak.
I am a minotaur.
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
7271
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Posted - 2014.11.19 04:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
To clarify, someone brought up that a scout could just circle strafe for a while to circumvent the weapon fire delay. This is impossible. If you have to wait five seconds to be able to fire your weapon after you're decloaked, it doesn't matter if you're walking around, jumping up and down, or just standing there - you're still going to have to wait five seconds of being in plain sight before firing your weapon.
Again, this is to incentive the cloak's use as a movement tool and not as a combat tool. A player should have to consider -where- they de-cloak just as much as where they start to cloak, picking their battles.
Long-Term Roadmap
This Player is Against Proto BPOs
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
5469
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Posted - 2014.11.19 04:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
One issue that has come to mind. Currently if you switch to Cloak in the equipment wheel without activating it, you are stuck on the delay time for switching to something else. Particularly annoying when you accidentally select the cloak instead of the EQ you wanted. Aeon I know you Logi and I bet you understand the EQ fumble (usually at the most inopportune time) I wonder if this could be avoided without adding a unintended buff to say RE usage. Where the delay would only come in from an active cloak? Dev input probably required on that one.
MOAR Ladders
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
7272
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Posted - 2014.11.19 04:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:One issue that has come to mind. Currently if you switch to Cloak in the equipment wheel without activating it, you are stuck on the delay time for switching to something else. Particularly annoying when you accidentally select the cloak instead of the EQ you wanted. Aeon I know you Logi and I bet you understand the EQ fumble (usually at the most inopportune time) I wonder if this could be avoided without adding a unintended buff to say RE usage. Where the delay would only come in from an active cloak? Dev input probably required on that one.
Seems reasonable. Dunno how they'd go about it though. Should only have a delay in the eventuality that you physically hit the button your wrist and turn the cloak on. After that, it should be as unforgiving as possible
Long-Term Roadmap
This Player is Against Proto BPOs
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
5472
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Posted - 2014.11.19 04:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:To clarify, someone brought up that a scout could just circle strafe for a while to circumvent the weapon fire delay. This is impossible. If you have to wait five seconds to be able to fire your weapon after you're decloaked, it doesn't matter if you're walking around, jumping up and down, or just standing there - you're still going to have to wait five seconds of being in plain sight before firing your weapon.
Again, this is to incentive the cloak's use as a movement tool and not as a combat tool. A player should have to consider -where- they de-cloak just as much as where they start to cloak, picking their battles. Moving while Hacking a CRU, SD, or Turret would keep you less visible, though I think that is not really an issue.
MOAR Ladders
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
328
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Posted - 2014.11.19 04:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
In judges videos he also shows completely invisible running scouts. Maybe turrets should be able to lock onto the electrical signal of the cloak.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
5473
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Posted - 2014.11.19 05:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:In judges videos he also shows completely invisible running scouts. Maybe turrets should be able to lock onto the electrical signal of the cloak. They already do, you just need to learn how to troll with turrets
MOAR Ladders
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