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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1965
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 16:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear Players Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature. * We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate * We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay * We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment * We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so * We want Equipment diversity Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent. Equipment LimitThe main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE. Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling. Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£. Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others. In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario. This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field. Quality over QuantityWe want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time. ProgressionLogistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment. Logistics vs other DropsuitsOne of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore. DiversityWe can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either. Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements. Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly. Again, your feedback and input is appreciated. couldnt you just simply remove the "max carried" from equipment (except RE) and tweek equipment so you cannot flood the map with varients and just be limited to 1-3 max active (depending on meta/varient)
this woudl also help improve logis by prox of being able to carry unlimieted ammo packs in a way which still need to be dropped and then wait as ammo resupplies.
one problem could be equipment boosting.. so maybe give equipment a cooldown time like active scanners before you can place any more then the current max active, of which older equipment would pop thus NOT having more then your allocated limit of ammo.
now.. i can imagine cal logi with triage hives.. he or she gets to point a.. drops one or two.. then untill he or she goes and changes suit at a depo or dies and respawns they have no real way to pick them up and move them.. so my idea of SELF REPLICATING EQUIPMENT comes into play...
new cal logi, drops triage hive for an engagment.. moves on.. drops triage hive for 2nd engagment moves on, drops a 3rd.. first one pops.. moves on.. and so on.. this is the kind of buff we need to equipment.. including prox mines(the most underused equipment in game)
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1965
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 16:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:John Psi wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:[quote=John Psi]Your suggested solution of having equipment die when the person who places them dies will mean that every member of the team will have to quip Uplinks all the time, just to insure there are always uplinks up. No one would play logi, because the only effective way to keep your Uplinks up after you placed them would be to withdraw from the fight. No team wants to be down a man, so Logi would be useless in PC. Absolutley correct. Logi has no place in combat, since losing the efficiency over for asault/scout/etc. Nobody wants to lose better fighter in pursuit of efficiency, it makes logi stupid suit for battlefield preparation. You can remove his rifle - he does not need. Once equpment drop - play Mario. Yeah no, I disagree...but if you go spawn in as a heavy..yeah all dat logi equipment say bye bye. this dosnt matter.. its just stupid... if equipment were to expire when a logi died (which is goddamned often due to being slow/low ehp/yellow will just make EVERYONE persecute logi even more meaning NO ONE even die hard logi like myself would want to play logi anymore.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1982
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear Players Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature. * We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate * We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay * We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment * We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so * We want Equipment diversity Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent. Equipment LimitThe main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE. Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling. Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£. Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others. In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario. This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field. Quality over QuantityWe want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time. ProgressionLogistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment. Logistics vs other DropsuitsOne of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore. DiversityWe can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either. Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements. Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly. Again, your feedback and input is appreciated. aweful idea.. it only works for drones because they are simple and 1 role..attack..
adding bandwidth to Dust/equipment creates more work for die hard logistics players.. as it makes us have to Micro-manage even more then we already have to!..
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1982
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:John Psi wrote:Guys, Ratatti, let me explain what is happening now.
In serious fights we have the following scenario:
1. At the beginning of battle HALF fighters planted in logi. 2. Equipment spam, die or refit to assaults/scouts/etc 3. No logi in a fight.
Equipment Bandwidth did not save us from the problems, scenario would be:
1. At the beginning of battle ALL fighters planted with equipment fit variant. 2. Equipment spam, die or refit to simular Bandwidth suit (battle fit variant). 3. No logi in a fight.
I understand that the current scenario is simple and effective. Just want to remind you that we wanna play not a Mario style game. This is why the logistics fits need a tone down in CPU/PG and a large buff in their role reduction to Equipment fittings costs. Thus no logistics fits with empty slots fit purely for combat and used only to keep their BW value high. Support logistics could use a meaningful buff, but "slayer logi" can stay dead. 0.02 ISK Cross no its not.. logi can hardly fit 3/5th proto equipment/moduals where scouts/sents/assaults can easly fit like 90% + proto
what you would be doing is essentially nerfing logi EHP even further then it already is.. and as a min logi being the lowest ehp of them all having like 300+ ehp less then an assault and being stupidly slow because we fit ehp just leaves us to be cannon fodder for anyone adn everyone with MLT or higher gear.. and im sick of it. do you even logi? i doubt it. try being a logi for a year and just see your chosen roll receive nerf after nerf after proxy-nerf... and not recive a single godamned buff at all!
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1984
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:I am against the idea of bandwidth. Not only does it limit what suits I can use, but it hurts Cal and Amarr logos harder since they focus on deployables.
Why not just decrease uplink spawn count and increase amount carried? This means you can spam them as long as you are constantly deploying them since they'll run out much faster. when i run proto i have reptool and injector but also uplinks (max of 3 active) and hives (max of 3 active) but yes like you said.. for cal and amarr it would basically kill the caldari logi once and for all.. where as amarr logis only redemption is sidearm and highest ehp of the 4 races logi suits.
proto cal logi would mostly be injector-hive-hive.. now the hives coudl be the varients whcihc get up to 4 active.. they need the ammo.. they need the triage.. with out all those hives on their suit they are done for..
for amarr.. injector uplinks uplinks..
its not the logi role or the equipments fault.. its the fault of stupid goddamned equipment spammers who spam equipment at supply depos and then switch to their chosen slayer suits.. (usually 50% scouts and 30% sentinels 15% assault 5% logi)
BANDWIDTH LIMITS WILL KILL LOGISTICS!
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1984
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Cross Atu wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: ps...I would like to see how this works with Logi suit / role updates that may be coming up. Bandwidth, equip slots, suit specs, and role/racial bonus all starts to connect in this discussion.
SOONtm No, seriously I'm working on this actively right now (first day off in awhile) and hope to have something more meaningful in the near term. Taking into account both the eWar changes and the BW system has given me a bit to adapt too when collating current community feedback on the subject. Shame we don't have someone so adamant about Assaults and Commandos x3 assaults are in a good place.. commandos need some love.. scouts need a goddamned nerf bat to the face..
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1986
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:John Psi wrote:Guys, Ratatti, let me explain what is happening now.
In serious fights we have the following scenario:
1. At the beginning of battle HALF fighters planted in logi. 2. Equipment spam, die or refit to assaults/scouts/etc 3. No logi in a fight.
Equipment Bandwidth did not save us from the problems, scenario would be:
1. At the beginning of battle ALL fighters planted with equipment fit variant. 2. Equipment spam, die or refit to simular Bandwidth suit (battle fit variant). 3. No logi in a fight.
I understand that the current scenario is simple and effective. Just want to remind you that we wanna play not a Mario style game. This is why the logistics fits need a tone down in CPU/PG and a large buff in their role reduction to Equipment fittings costs. Thus no logistics fits with empty slots fit purely for combat and used only to keep their BW value high. Support logistics could use a meaningful buff, but "slayer logi" can stay dead. 0.02 ISK Cross no logi need less cost for equipment and NO NERF TO FITTINGS.. cause maybe then we can actually fit more then 4 proto tank moduals as we eat too much pg and cpu just to carry equipment.. i chalenge you to try fit as much proto on a logi suit as you can on assault or scout.. it just dosnt happen.. hell i have to use advanced on some parts just to make everything fit.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1994
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 21:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear Players Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature. * We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate * We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay * We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment * We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so * We want Equipment diversity Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent. Equipment LimitThe main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE. Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling. Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£. Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others. In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario. This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field. Quality over QuantityWe want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time. ProgressionLogistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment. Logistics vs other DropsuitsOne of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore. DiversityWe can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either. Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements. Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly. Again, your feedback and input is appreciated. aweful idea.. as a logi i already micro manage alot.. and sometimes i even have to flip to an AV role cause other scrubs are too slow and stupid to do so and i should not be penalized for doing this!
how about this Rattatti.. dont even touch equipment yet.. but give the "new orbitals" a chance to see if they balance the problem out or not, got it?!
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1994
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 21:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Excellent news +1 A few Points: UI:I agree with Cat Merc and everybody else in this thread that we need to have a clear and functional way of tracking current BW usage. Both in game and switching suites. Switching Suites:I would also like to have a short (30-60sec) timespan before the equipment is destroyed when spawning in / switching suites. This will enable players to spawn on their own uplinks (once), even if they spawn in a lower BW suite. It would also allow you to quickly correct a mistake when switching to the incorrect suite at a supply depot. The UI should reflect this "overloading" and warn of impending destruction. Skills:I would also link available BW to the logistics skill instead of STD, ADV and PRO suites. The suites themselves should have a standard value based on frame, regardless if they are Standard or Proto. Apart from the Dropsuite logistic skill, a new skill can be created under "Engineering" (which is feeling very lonely compared to Electronics), called "Bandwidth Modulation" (or something), which can increase the available BW for all suites and frames, including of course Logistics. This will have several benefits: - Level 2 and 4 of Logistic class will progress your Logistic role further, even if you can't fit Proto yet. - Since no other suite apart from Logistics increases Equipment slots per tier, there is no logic in increasing BW per tier for those suites. - More skills to dump SP in. - It will allow a support minded players (with "Bandwidth Modulation" 5) to not kill of all their equipment even if they choose to spawn in a BPO, Basic suite or even a Sentinel. I am not advocating that a Scout can take a Logistic role full time since the base value for Light frames should be low (as you suggest). Even at max skill, other suites should not match a level 1 Logistic player without any points in "Bandwidth Modulation". equipment bandwidth is a bad idea.. i as a logi will not be able to use a supply depo to switch to an AV role combat a target then switch back if all my equipment down to a certain level goes BOOM. it will be the final nail in the coffin for logi
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1994
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 21:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Dear Players Based on a lot of feedback, both from CPM, Community and previous CCP designs, one of the things we are able to conjure up is the much wanted Equipment Bandwidth feature. * We want to fix Equipment spam to increase framerate * We want Quality over Quantity Equipment gameplay * We want a solid Logistics progression at using Equipment * We want Logistics to excel at using Equipment, and other roles less so * We want Equipment diversity Now, we want to get your feedback as early as possible, so chime in. But here are some clarifications of intent. Equipment LimitThe main design is primarily based off of Drones in EVE. Every dropsuit has a built-in Equipment Controller, which has a certain Bandwidth Capacity (in MHz). That Controller Bandwidth is used to manage deployed Equipment through constant signaling. Each piece of deployed Equipment has a different Bandwidth Cost (or Usage). Note that all Equipment still has the same current limitations of GÇPdeployed per typeGÇ£. Obviously Logistics are made for this purpose, and some Logistics more than others. In the case of deployed Equipment Bandwidth exceeding the Players current Bandwidth, deployed Equipment self-destructs instantly, in the sequence it was deployed. In the attached spreadsheet, we show an example of such a scenario. This feature will allow proper Logistics to excel at their deployment role, while keeping Assaults & Commandos relatively useful and Scouts will be diminished in capability as they were never meant to be a king of deployables, the additional slot was added for the Cloak Field. Quality over QuantityWe want players to use the best Equipment they have at their disposal. ThatGÇÖs why Bandwidth will not increase with item tiers. We also have the capability and intent to reduce Scan Profile with tiers, so Advanced and Complex gear is not as easy to scan. However, this also allows us to increase the carried amount, for rapid redeployment. Spawn first Nanohive and Drop Uplink at point A, redeploy to Objective B, spawn second Nanohive and Drop Uplink, and so on. Stay out of trouble and you wonGÇÖt need to switch or restock for quite some time. ProgressionLogistics will have the, by far, the highest Bandwidth, with Caldari and Amarr the highest. We may need to reword or change some of their role bonuses. Bandwith progression will follow the Equipment slot progression so a Logistics player can almost always use their full allotment of deployable Equipment. Logistics vs other DropsuitsOne of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore. DiversityWe can now influence players to use more Proximity Mines for example, as Scan Profile will allow them to be hidden from low Precision Vehicle Players, as well as having a lower Bandwidth Cost, allowing more at the same time, without allowing more Uplinks and Nanohives. Extra damage wouldnGÇÖt hurt either. Now, to the numbers found in this spreadsheet. Please remember that these numbers are placeholders, and are definitely up for debate so form your arguments for changes into clear and concise statements. Please read the Example as well, it should explain the whole design clearly. Again, your feedback and input is appreciated. aweful idea.. as a logi i already micro manage alot.. and sometimes i even have to flip to an AV role cause other scrubs are too slow and stupid to do so and i should not be penalized for doing this! how about this Rattatti.. dont even touch equipment yet.. but give the "new orbitals" a chance to see if they balance the problem out or not, got it?! No. Stick to your job and quit trying to solve every problem at once. If your team is ass, then that's the end of it. trust such an indepth and informed rebutted form an elitist piece of filth from THAT corp/alliance... the supply depos are there for a reason.. if they introduce bandwidth then they need to remove suit changing from supply depos but this just puts even more pressure on logi anyway..
as for my team.. iv seen it in FW from members in decent corps too they are far too slow on the threat level present on the field.
dust and eve are about PLAYING HOW WE WANT.. yet they are wanting to take away the ability to flip form your main role into secondary and back to main with out having to then re-drop all equipment? its obsurd.. it will only make equipment spam around supply depos worse!
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