DUST Search - CCP, take notes.

Forlorn Destrier wrote:

Avinash Decker wrote:

Forlorn Destrier wrote:

Avinash Decker wrote:

Crimson ShieId wrote:

Don't dumb your products down.

Everyone else, especially those who got Destiny and found it to be nothing like what was promised... I feel for you. It's such a shame that so many game publishers these days push out mediocrity simply to sell to the masses instead of shooting for innovative designs and complex in game systems. It almost makes me want to play Eve, just to be able to experience the economy and complexity, but my puny laptop would commit Seppuku at the mere thought of such a game.

Dust was not immune to marketing , whatever happened to all things CCP promised before the games release? Hardly anything came out of it. Really you can use the same argument the guy used to apply to Dust . CCP promised a lot of things which everyone should know what they were , but at the end it turned out the Dust was just a lobby shooter that really didn't do all the much different and in some cases worse than other lobby shooters on the PS3 and other platforms.

Anyway , the concept of dumbing down is usually confused with simplification which sometimes is used to get rid of certain mechanics or streamline them. Sometimes it is needed and really Eve has been doing that for awhile.

Positive about this: CCP has pretty much acknowledged that they failed, and admitting the mistakes of the past is good thing.

And? That doesn't mean anything at all hardly any of the promise came about and all that's left is a lobby shooter that hardly anyone knows about anymore . It doesn't change the fact of what the game became and it won't change of what the game is in the future . Bungie understand they made mistakes especially with the story, but that doesn't change how the story is already. Admitting mistakes is a good thing, but correcting them is far more important . You can say CCP is attempting to do that, but the question is will it matter in the future? All they are really doing is balancing the already unbalanced game and after fanfeast Legion most likely will never come out on consoles anymore, thus leaving the fanbase the built behind, and to addition to that Legion may never even come out and Dust has a chance of shutting down.

But that wasn't really the what OP was saying, whatever that was applied to Destiny's "dumbing down" can and/or already happened with Dust.

It means there are always positives and you should look for them to balance the negative. Being negative 100% of the time is the fast path to heart ache, heart break, and heart attack. My hand to God, I know what I am talking about with life I have led.

Also - admitting a problem is the first step to correcting the problem. Bungee hasn't done this yet if this video is true.

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Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1381	Posted - 2014.11.15 20:06:00 - [1] - Quote Don't dumb your products down. Everyone else, especially those who got Destiny and found it to be nothing like what was promised... I feel for you. It's such a shame that so many game publishers these days push out mediocrity simply to sell to the masses instead of shooting for innovative designs and complex in game systems. It almost makes me want to play Eve, just to be able to experience the economy and complexity, but my puny laptop would commit Seppuku at the mere thought of such a game. I want to punch.
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 94	Posted - 2014.11.15 20:34:00 - [2] - Quote Wow. That is the most logical speech I have ever heard. I do not have Destiny and I thought it was gona be a legit "Halo Killer". Such a shame Bungiey went on Revenue Management strategies typically reserved for the Hospitality Industry and Airlines. I think CCP is different. They have gone threw mistakes, but they have learned. I think and believe. That is my opinion. Amarr Victor
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5137	Posted - 2014.11.15 20:59:00 - [3] - Quote I find both games dreadfully short in expectations and limits. I thought destiny would be a little more....multi dimensional. Same with dust. I've gone dark for so long most people I probably knew playing this game are gone. Bojo For CPM
JIMvc2 The Wanga Empire Strikes Back 403	Posted - 2014.11.15 21:04:00 - [4] - Quote I agree. Yet people call Destiny a MMO = I don't think it is since matches are 6 vs 6. Atleast CCP doesn't do expansion packs for Dust 514. MAG Raven vet 7 times. Favorite weapon F90 and Highest Kills 78 and 23 deaths.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 249	Posted - 2014.11.15 21:13:00 - [5] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I find both games dreadfully short in expectations and limits. I thought destiny would be a little more....multi dimensional. Same with dust. I've gone dark for so long most people I probably knew playing this game are gone. Bojo! Call me Quil. And no, Llast, I am not a Hobbit.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4584	Posted - 2014.11.15 21:19:00 - [6] - Quote I still cry for those 60$ dollars I spent on the digital version :( (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Vicious Minotaur 1307	Posted - 2014.11.15 21:27:00 - [7] - Quote JIMvc2 wrote: Atleast CCP doesn't do expansion packs for Dust 514. You almost say that as if expansion packs are a bad thing. I am a minotaur.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14646	Posted - 2014.11.15 21:27:00 - [8] - Quote Speaks volumes about how EVE has established itself and how the disparity between someone like myself, very new to in game economy and not wholly concerned about profits, is rapidly out stripped in terms of power by another more clever player. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5035	Posted - 2014.11.15 21:33:00 - [9] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I find both games dreadfully short in expectations and limits. I thought destiny would be a little more....multi dimensional. Same with dust. I've gone dark for so long most people I probably knew playing this game are gone. Holy crap I thought you were dead. Welcome back. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1385	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:06:00 - [10] - Quote Isa Lucifer wrote: Wow. That is the most logical speech I have ever heard. I do not have Destiny and I thought it was gona be a legit "Halo Killer". Such a shame Bungiey went on Revenue Management strategies typically reserved for the Hospitality Industry and Airlines. I think CCP is different. They have gone threw mistakes, but they have learned. I think and believe. That is my opinion. I'd hoped something similar... well, not so much as a Halo killer, but my thoughts were that it was cool that I was going to get a game similar, if not better than the Halo games on the PS3/4. I've never owned an Xbox, but I've loved those games for years and have quite a few fond memories of playing with friends on their systems. Sadly, it didn't go that route, and while the shooting might have been polished, everything else about the game felt lacking. As for CCP, I'm a tad nervous, hearing things about Legion, how dropsuits might not have tiers any more, how they might all be rolled into one, plus things in Dust such as removing entire trees (Lol, get it?) of skills and vehicles to balance them, most of which we still don't have back. I want to punch.

Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1385	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:07:00 - [11] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I still cry for those 60$ dollars I spent on the digital version :( Maybe you can sell it for Plex or- oh wait... Digital copy... welp! That sucks! I want to punch.
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1385	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:11:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Speaks volumes about how EVE has established itself and how the disparity between someone like myself, very new to in game economy and not wholly concerned about profits, is rapidly out stripped in terms of power by another more clever player. This. The more experienced, more thoughtful player can win and control more than the person who has less experience. I'd love to see more mechanics like this in games, things that could take much longer to learn than the mere controls of a game, aspects that could truly require investment. Still allowing newer players access is a good thing, but wanting to make every player feel awesome or equal is just wrong. Not every player wants to be the Dovahkiin, and vice versa, not every player wants to be that random prisoner who's merely a helper to the true emperor. It's good to give options depending on the playstyle and time willing to be put into the game. I want to punch.
Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1385	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:12:00 - [13] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: JIMvc2 wrote: Atleast CCP doesn't do expansion packs for Dust 514. You almost say that as if expansion packs are a bad thing. Technically, they kind of do, they just don't charge extra for them. But the option to pay extra is still there for things like the APEX suits, which I rather enjoy. I want to punch.
JIMvc2 The Wanga Empire Strikes Back 403	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:16:00 - [14] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Isa Lucifer wrote: Wow. That is the most logical speech I have ever heard. I do not have Destiny and I thought it was gona be a legit "Halo Killer". Such a shame Bungiey went on Revenue Management strategies typically reserved for the Hospitality Industry and Airlines. I think CCP is different. They have gone threw mistakes, but they have learned. I think and believe. That is my opinion. I'd hoped something similar... well, not so much as a Halo killer, but my thoughts were that it was cool that I was going to get a game similar, if not better than the Halo games on the PS3/4. I've never owned an Xbox, but I've loved those games for years and have quite a few fond memories of playing with friends on their systems. Sadly, it didn't go that route, and while the shooting might have been polished, everything else about the game felt lacking. As for CCP, I'm a tad nervous, hearing things about Legion, how dropsuits might not have tiers any more, how they might all be rolled into one, plus things in Dust such as removing entire trees (Lol, get it?) of skills and vehicles to balance them, most of which we still don't have back. Just wait for the old variants to be RE introduced. I'm looking forward to Logi Dropships !!! MAG Raven vet 7 times. Favorite weapon F90 and Highest Kills 78 and 23 deaths.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2562	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:35:00 - [15] - Quote This year, two games have come out in the Sci-Fi Shoot People genre that feel quite short. Titanfall got all this hype, everyone loved it for a week or two, but then it was "wait, that's it?" as soon as they realized that it was a 60 dollar game with no single player and a variety of other features that were not there. Basically, people paid 60 dollars for a game that wasn't filled with 60 dollars of content. Still fun to parkour and shoot people with a shotgun though. Destiny is the other game. I have not played it myself but have only heard critical and disappointed things. I believe the joke is "half a billion dollars is not enough to make a good video game." But, unlike Titanfall, it has a single player and has more stuff in it for 60 dollars. The problem is that this hype train was built up so much with the idea of "10 year plan and commitment to the game" that when it turns out it is 'just' a game where you shoot people, shoot AI, and grind for guns, the hype train explodes into Disappointment Valley. What I will say is this: it is a bloody shame that Bungie has moved away from "10 Year Plan with Destiny" and is instead pushing for "10 Year Plan with the franchise" after it was revealed that Destiny 2 is in the work rather than more stuff for Destiny 1. That's not how an MMO works, by the way. But back on point: "Dumbing down" is not exactly a bad thing depending how it works. The best example I have ever seen is the original UFO Defense and X-COM. X-COM most certainly is "dumber" than UFO Defense because it is more simple. However, the mechanics of play are still quite high and the strategy is still enormous. "User Friendly" is the way they went and it works wonders. I don't think using EVE as an example for "how to do things correctly" is a good idea on most things. In truth, the original game concept in EVE is quite mediocre. Combat is slow and dull. It takes ages to "do anything." If it were not for the luck that people built close knit bonds and worked together and CCP didn't have the foresight to change the game from "kill the NPC, get the loot" to this entire player owned universe the game would have died long ago. One of the FanFests, Hilmar mentioned the fact that the game was meant to be a "kill the monster, get loot" game with just a hard crafting mode put in. He was playing it and borrowed someone's Cruiser and, of course, got it blown up by the NPC. As he put it, "that drive to rebuild this thing because I had lost someone's ship got in the way of me actually making the game for everyone else!" Slight shift in focus of game design and EVE is the game that is both incredibly boring and the game that offers players something that no one else can. I would say CCP got lucky with EVE and it works because the game is meant to be super slow paced. If DUST/Legion and especially Valkyrie look to EVE's super slow model, I can't see the games being super successful. They probably can't offer the massiveness that is EVE and trying to be EVE is like trying to be the stinky old dog that defecates gold but mixing up "gold" with "liquid death." "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries 1013	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:47:00 - [16] - Quote Company's can get away with this **** because CoD and Activision have been getting away with it for years.. Till the ignorant gamers out there stop buying half ass DLC no company is going to miss out on the opportunity to bend em over...
Kuruld Sengar Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 42	Posted - 2014.11.15 23:59:00 - [17] - Quote Yes! Make your product the way you want.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 151	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:13:00 - [18] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Don't dumb your products down. Everyone else, especially those who got Destiny and found it to be nothing like what was promised... I feel for you. It's such a shame that so many game publishers these days push out mediocrity simply to sell to the masses instead of shooting for innovative designs and complex in game systems. It almost makes me want to play Eve, just to be able to experience the economy and complexity, but my puny laptop would commit Seppuku at the mere thought of such a game. Dust was not immune to marketing issues that Destiny kinda experienced as well , whatever happened to all things CCP promised before the games release? Hardly anything came out of it. Really you can use the same argument the guy used to apply to Dust . CCP promised a lot of things which everyone should know what they were , but at the end it turned out the Dust was just a lobby shooter that really didn't do all the much different and in some cases worse than other lobby shooters on the PS3 and other platforms. Anyway , the concept of dumbing down is usually confused with simplification which sometimes is used to get rid of certain mechanics or streamline them. Sometimes it is needed and really Eve has been doing that for awhile.
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 2985	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:17:00 - [19] - Quote Avinash Decker wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: Don't dumb your products down. Everyone else, especially those who got Destiny and found it to be nothing like what was promised... I feel for you. It's such a shame that so many game publishers these days push out mediocrity simply to sell to the masses instead of shooting for innovative designs and complex in game systems. It almost makes me want to play Eve, just to be able to experience the economy and complexity, but my puny laptop would commit Seppuku at the mere thought of such a game. Dust was not immune to marketing , whatever happened to all things CCP promised before the games release? Hardly anything came out of it. Really you can use the same argument the guy used to apply to Dust . CCP promised a lot of things which everyone should know what they were , but at the end it turned out the Dust was just a lobby shooter that really didn't do all the much different and in some cases worse than other lobby shooters on the PS3 and other platforms. Anyway , the concept of dumbing down is usually confused with simplification which sometimes is used to get rid of certain mechanics or streamline them. Sometimes it is needed and really Eve has been doing that for awhile. Positive about this: CCP has pretty much acknowledged that they failed, and admitting the mistakes of the past is good thing. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 5935	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:19:00 - [20] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I find both games dreadfully short in expectations and limits. I thought destiny would be a little more....multi dimensional. Same with dust. I've gone dark for so long most people I probably knew playing this game are gone. The dissapointment is strongest in those who believed earliest. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 5935	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:24:00 - [21] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Company's can get away with this **** because CoD and Activision have been getting away with it for years.. Till the ignorant gamers out there stop buying half ass DLC no company is going to miss out on the opportunity to bend em over... COD's development cycle was sent into the dark ages because of the fiasco with IW(Respawn Entertainment). Had it not totally sucked the life out of the remnants of IW and backtracked Sledgehammer, then we as consumers would have gotten better quality games a lot sooner than we did. Though now that there are three studios working instead of two things will change. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 2985	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:25:00 - [22] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I find both games dreadfully short in expectations and limits. I thought destiny would be a little more....multi dimensional. Same with dust. I've gone dark for so long most people I probably knew playing this game are gone. The dissapointment is strongest in those who believed earliest. Frustration is greatest among those with the highest expectations. Managing expectations helps to manage disappointment better. I'm not a CCP fanboy, but sometimes I am viewed as one. I believe the reason is that when CCP says something, I hope it to be true, but *expect it to be short of I am told* (and I do this real life as well). By doing this, I am not nearly as frustrated or disappointed in general as others. The opposite happens - I am generally pleased because my expectations are often exceeded, or at least match, what is delivered. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 151	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:34:00 - [23] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Avinash Decker wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: Don't dumb your products down. Everyone else, especially those who got Destiny and found it to be nothing like what was promised... I feel for you. It's such a shame that so many game publishers these days push out mediocrity simply to sell to the masses instead of shooting for innovative designs and complex in game systems. It almost makes me want to play Eve, just to be able to experience the economy and complexity, but my puny laptop would commit Seppuku at the mere thought of such a game. Dust was not immune to marketing , whatever happened to all things CCP promised before the games release? Hardly anything came out of it. Really you can use the same argument the guy used to apply to Dust . CCP promised a lot of things which everyone should know what they were , but at the end it turned out the Dust was just a lobby shooter that really didn't do all the much different and in some cases worse than other lobby shooters on the PS3 and other platforms. Anyway , the concept of dumbing down is usually confused with simplification which sometimes is used to get rid of certain mechanics or streamline them. Sometimes it is needed and really Eve has been doing that for awhile. Positive about this: CCP has pretty much acknowledged that they failed, and admitting the mistakes of the past is good thing. And? That doesn't mean anything at all hardly any of the promise came about and all that's left is a lobby shooter that hardly anyone knows about anymore . It doesn't change the fact of what the game became and it won't change of what the game is in the future . Bungie understand they made mistakes especially with the story, but that doesn't change how the story is already. Admitting mistakes is a good thing, but correcting them is far more important . You can say CCP is attempting to do that, but the question is will it matter in the future? All they are really doing is balancing the already unbalanced game and after fanfeast Legion most likely will never come out on consoles anymore, thus leaving the fanbase the built behind, and to addition to that Legion may never even come out and Dust has a chance of shutting down. But that wasn't really the what OP was saying, whatever that was applied to Destiny's "dumbing down" can and/or already happened with Dust.
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 2985	Posted - 2014.11.16 00:37:00 - [24] - Quote Avinash Decker wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Avinash Decker wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: Don't dumb your products down. Everyone else, especially those who got Destiny and found it to be nothing like what was promised... I feel for you. It's such a shame that so many game publishers these days push out mediocrity simply to sell to the masses instead of shooting for innovative designs and complex in game systems. It almost makes me want to play Eve, just to be able to experience the economy and complexity, but my puny laptop would commit Seppuku at the mere thought of such a game. Dust was not immune to marketing , whatever happened to all things CCP promised before the games release? Hardly anything came out of it. Really you can use the same argument the guy used to apply to Dust . CCP promised a lot of things which everyone should know what they were , but at the end it turned out the Dust was just a lobby shooter that really didn't do all the much different and in some cases worse than other lobby shooters on the PS3 and other platforms. Anyway , the concept of dumbing down is usually confused with simplification which sometimes is used to get rid of certain mechanics or streamline them. Sometimes it is needed and really Eve has been doing that for awhile. Positive about this: CCP has pretty much acknowledged that they failed, and admitting the mistakes of the past is good thing. And? That doesn't mean anything at all hardly any of the promise came about and all that's left is a lobby shooter that hardly anyone knows about anymore . It doesn't change the fact of what the game became and it won't change of what the game is in the future . Bungie understand they made mistakes especially with the story, but that doesn't change how the story is already. Admitting mistakes is a good thing, but correcting them is far more important . You can say CCP is attempting to do that, but the question is will it matter in the future? All they are really doing is balancing the already unbalanced game and after fanfeast Legion most likely will never come out on consoles anymore, thus leaving the fanbase the built behind, and to addition to that Legion may never even come out and Dust has a chance of shutting down. But that wasn't really the what OP was saying, whatever that was applied to Destiny's "dumbing down" can and/or already happened with Dust. It means there are always positives and you should look for them to balance the negative. Being negative 100% of the time is the fast path to heart ache, heart break, and heart attack. My hand to God, I know what I am talking about with life I have led. I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 151	Posted - 2014.11.16 01:01:00 - [25] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Avinash Decker wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Avinash Decker wrote: Crimson ShieId wrote: Don't dumb your products down. Everyone else, especially those who got Destiny and found it to be nothing like what was promised... I feel for you. It's such a shame that so many game publishers these days push out mediocrity simply to sell to the masses instead of shooting for innovative designs and complex in game systems. It almost makes me want to play Eve, just to be able to experience the economy and complexity, but my puny laptop would commit Seppuku at the mere thought of such a game. Dust was not immune to marketing , whatever happened to all things CCP promised before the games release? Hardly anything came out of it. Really you can use the same argument the guy used to apply to Dust . CCP promised a lot of things which everyone should know what they were , but at the end it turned out the Dust was just a lobby shooter that really didn't do all the much different and in some cases worse than other lobby shooters on the PS3 and other platforms. Anyway , the concept of dumbing down is usually confused with simplification which sometimes is used to get rid of certain mechanics or streamline them. Sometimes it is needed and really Eve has been doing that for awhile. Positive about this: CCP has pretty much acknowledged that they failed, and admitting the mistakes of the past is good thing. And? That doesn't mean anything at all hardly any of the promise came about and all that's left is a lobby shooter that hardly anyone knows about anymore . It doesn't change the fact of what the game became and it won't change of what the game is in the future . Bungie understand they made mistakes especially with the story, but that doesn't change how the story is already. Admitting mistakes is a good thing, but correcting them is far more important . You can say CCP is attempting to do that, but the question is will it matter in the future? All they are really doing is balancing the already unbalanced game and after fanfeast Legion most likely will never come out on consoles anymore, thus leaving the fanbase the built behind, and to addition to that Legion may never even come out and Dust has a chance of shutting down. But that wasn't really the what OP was saying, whatever that was applied to Destiny's "dumbing down" can and/or already happened with Dust. It means there are always positives and you should look for them to balance the negative. Being negative 100% of the time is the fast path to heart ache, heart break, and heart attack. My hand to God, I know what I am talking about with life I have led. Also - admitting a problem is the first step to correcting the problem. Bungee hasn't done this yet if this video is true. That's not what I'm saying . I am saying admitting mistakes is fine , but will it matter in CCP's case in the end in terms of Dust because of the scenario it is in now. The video is basically assumptions, speculation, and guess of what happened with Destiny in the end and with some parts speculation that some of the stuff was because of dumbing down and that was what the video was focused on.


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