DUST Search - Can anyone test and tell me....

True Adamance wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

I-Shayz-I wrote:

CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction.

Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable

Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop

Indeed and I am looking for that static variable.

This primarily being the case to make a post about JLAV and the possible return of Marauders and Enforcers.

You can roughly achieve 8750 damage without the static vehicle explosion stat on a player driven guided missile moving at 100kmph.

If ground based pilots are going to be investing X million SP and in excess of 1.2 Million ISK (conservative estimate on fitted HAV) then there is no reason why such a vehicle should be subject to such a broken means of AV delivery.

there is no way in God's creation those things can be re-introduced as they were without a massive AV revamp in general.

Given with 3 slots a Gunnlogi can attain a 7120 Shield Buffer it's possible for a passive tanked Sagaris (especially if Shield Hardners or Extenders receive a bonus) to have a 9275 Shield Buffer plus armour for a total of 10775 EHP.

It's worse when you consider Armour HAV (assuming a Madrugar with 4 slots) 7356.25 Armour HP plus 2x Heavy Reps and 1200 Shields for a total of 8556.25 EHP.

Consider a projected Amarr HAV fit with say 4600 Armour and 800 Shields.

800 + (4600 + 1885 + 1885) *1.25 = 11262.5 EHP

Currently not even Large Turrets could deal with them let alone AV. Only thing that might have a shot is a Jihad Jeep which is already a broken and bad mechanic.

"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro"

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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14381	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:12:00 - [1] - Quote How much EHP is lost when a Saga and Methana hit (without remote explosives) both an unhardened Gunlogi and Madrugar? "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2706	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:15:00 - [2] - Quote I've tested this, and I dare say there are too many variables. Plated VS unplated, Nitros basic or adv or non, as well as level surface or downhill, and even if the HAV in question is on a "tilt" surface (where your HAV moves slightly back an forth on it's own volition) or on a flat surface greatly effects this, as tilt surfaces offer substantial damage reduction and simply "push" you a bit. Most of the damage is from the LAV detonating and not the impact itself, at least according to tests done with a Saga II running the 60% AND 40% hardeners to better survive impacts. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14381	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:18:00 - [3] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: I've tested this, and I dare say there are too many variables. Plated VS unplated, Nitros basic or adv or non, as well as level surface or downhill, and even if the HAV in question is on a "tilt" surface (where your HAV moves slightly back an forth on it's own volition) or on a flat surface greatly effects this, as tilt surfaces offer substantial damage reduction and simply "push" you a bit. Most of the damage is from the LAV detonating and not the impact itself, at least according to tests done with a Saga II running the 60% AND 40% hardeners to better survive impacts. Is there even a rough "minimum" value for HP loss on the HAV you have discovered? "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2707	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:44:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Is there even a rough "minimum" value for HP loss on the HAV you have discovered? 0, I've managed to get an LAV to damage itself and inflict zero damage to the HAV. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14384	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:48:00 - [5] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: True Adamance wrote: Is there even a rough "minimum" value for HP loss on the HAV you have discovered? 0, I've managed to get an LAV to damage itself and inflict zero damage to the HAV. EDIT: Effectively zero, the HAV insta-regened it back so it was 90 or less damage. Armor HAVs suffer substantially less in collisions then Shield HAVs though, just like derpships. You can thwack a shield HAV for a little over a thousand collision damage if you ram it with a Methena running Nitros. Wondering if Rattati could explain the damage dealt by LAV crashing into HAV then? "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5020	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:51:00 - [6] - Quote CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction. Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14384	Posted - 2014.11.10 20:58:00 - [7] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction. Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop Indeed and I am looking for that static variable. This primarily being the case to make a post about JLAV and the possible return of Marauders and Enforcers. You can roughly achieve 8750 damage without the static vehicle explosion stat on a player driven guided missile moving at 100kmph. If ground based pilots are going to be investing X million SP and in excess of 1.2 Million ISK (conservative estimate on fitted HAV) then there is no reason why such a vehicle should be subject to such a broken means of AV delivery. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2490	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:52:00 - [8] - Quote I will say this: the explosion will kill a passenger in the tank if they are on the low, front gun. My gunner is often bitching about this. Jeep slams off right straight into my Madrugar, jeep explodes, Madrugar takes some varying amount of damage, gunner gets this in the kill feed: Kevkahn () Kevkahn "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4826	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:54:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction. Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop Indeed and I am looking for that static variable. This primarily being the case to make a post about JLAV and the possible return of Marauders and Enforcers. You can roughly achieve 8750 damage without the static vehicle explosion stat on a player driven guided missile moving at 100kmph. If ground based pilots are going to be investing X million SP and in excess of 1.2 Million ISK (conservative estimate on fitted HAV) then there is no reason why such a vehicle should be subject to such a broken means of AV delivery. there is no way in God's creation those things can be re-introduced as they were without a massive AV revamp in general. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14388	Posted - 2014.11.10 21:54:00 - [10] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I will say this: the explosion will kill a passenger in the tank if they are on the low, front gun. My gunner is often bitching about this. Jeep slams off right straight into my Madrugar, jeep explodes, Madrugar takes some varying amount of damage, gunner gets this in the kill feed: Kevkahn () Kevkahn Interesting. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon

Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2491	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:01:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: I will say this: the explosion will kill a passenger in the tank if they are on the low, front gun. My gunner is often bitching about this. Jeep slams off right straight into my Madrugar, jeep explodes, Madrugar takes some varying amount of damage, gunner gets this in the kill feed: Kevkahn () Kevkahn Interesting. It is great when it happens because it is the only time that he gets a little bit miffed and vocal in the game. First time it happened, he thought it was a Suicide LAV so he thought I died to. So when I am calling to open fire on the tank that I am flanking (we usually sneak up right behind and start shooting at the same time to get the most surprise Alpha), this exchange happens: "You already called in your tank? Where did you spawn?" "What are you talking about? We just killed the enemy Sica." "No, we died remember?" "Oh, you aren't in my tank. Did you jump out?" "You mean that jeep didn't kill you?" "What?" "GOD DAMN IT!" Now when ever a jeep hits the tank, he pauses a second to see if I am dead too. If not, "GOD DAMN IT!" "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14388	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:05:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction. Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop Indeed and I am looking for that static variable. This primarily being the case to make a post about JLAV and the possible return of Marauders and Enforcers. You can roughly achieve 8750 damage without the static vehicle explosion stat on a player driven guided missile moving at 100kmph. If ground based pilots are going to be investing X million SP and in excess of 1.2 Million ISK (conservative estimate on fitted HAV) then there is no reason why such a vehicle should be subject to such a broken means of AV delivery. there is no way in God's creation those things can be re-introduced as they were without a massive AV revamp in general. Given with 3 slots a Gunnlogi can attain a 7120 Shield Buffer it's possible for a passive tanked Sagaris (especially if Shield Hardners or Extenders receive a bonus) to have a 9275 Shield Buffer plus armour for a total of 10775 EHP. It's worse when you consider Armour HAV (assuming a Madrugar with 4 slots) 7356.25 Armour HP plus 2x Heavy Reps and 1200 Shields for a total of 8556.25 EHP. Consider a projected Amarr HAV fit with say 4600 Armour and 800 Shields. 800 + (4600 + 1885 + 1885) 1.25 = 11262.5 EHP Currently not even Large Turrets could deal with them let alone AV. Only thing that might have a shot is a Jihad Jeep which is already a broken and bad mechanic. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this."* -Kador Ouryon
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4831	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:23:00 - [13] - Quote I remember when the Sagaris was considered OP with 6500 HP. Gunnlogi with 5000 EHP already require reloading to kill with the FG unless you can get into their weakspot, and no one who's managed to get a gunnlogi skilled up to 5,000+ EHP is going to be suckered into exposing that long enough to get killed. given the tenuous state of AV, until the hulls are balanced against the AV that kill them, this is going to likely go nowhere. Kinda pisses me off. I LIKED hunting marauders. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2708	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:25:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I remember when the Sagaris was considered OP with 6500 HP. Yeah, but with everything running my Sagaris had an EHP of well over 20K, I remember comparing fits with Noc back when I bothered with IRC. The resistances you could stack with careful high and low slots (Like the complex damage control unit in the low) sure made those "low" HP ridiculously deceiving. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1787	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:34:00 - [15] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: I've tested this, and I dare say there are too many variables. Plated VS unplated, Nitros basic or adv or non, as well as level surface or downhill, and even if the HAV in question is on a "tilt" surface (where your HAV moves slightly back an forth on it's own volition) or on a flat surface greatly effects this, as tilt surfaces offer substantial damage reduction and simply "push" you a bit. Most of the damage is from the LAV detonating and not the impact itself, at least according to tests done with a Saga II running the 60% AND 40% hardeners to better survive impacts. plated == you crap yourself but your still alive after a jihad to the ass. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1787	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:37:00 - [16] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction. Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop i think its also a case of mass.. i have reversed over shield tanked lavs and they die but same isnt true for armor tanked.. its like 2 nights ago me in a cal DS and some other friendly in a gal DS hovering over a point, he bearly nudges me and my shield is knocked down by like 80% [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1787	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:40:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I remember when the Sagaris was considered OP with 6500 HP. Gunnlogi with 5000 EHP already require reloading to kill with the FG unless you can get into their weakspot, and no one who's managed to get a gunnlogi skilled up to 5,000+ EHP is going to be suckered into exposing that long enough to get killed. given the tenuous state of AV, until the hulls are balanced against the AV that kill them, this is going to likely go nowhere. Kinda pisses me off. I LIKED hunting marauders. its back and forth.. i have had no luck trying to take dome some protofit pythons with swarms on what i expect to be mega high sp dedicated ADS pilots as they can get like 80% resist to swarms for as long as they can cycle their hardners for [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14393	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:42:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I remember when the Sagaris was considered OP with 6500 HP. Gunnlogi with 5000 EHP already require reloading to kill with the FG unless you can get into their weakspot, and no one who's managed to get a gunnlogi skilled up to 5,000+ EHP is going to be suckered into exposing that long enough to get killed. given the tenuous state of AV, until the hulls are balanced against the AV that kill them, this is going to likely go nowhere. Kinda pisses me off. I LIKED hunting marauders. That was HP not EHP. Even the old Combat Maddy Pre 1.7 had more EHP but was utterly wrecked the moment a Swamer saw it. 1125 Shields 6375 Armour * 1.30 (with twice the duration since most people used 2 hardeners) and a slow pulse rep that amounted to something like 2400 reps over 15 seconds. 9412.5 EHP plus its slow pulse reps. Though I am accounting for the 180mm Poly Crystalline Armour Plating (plating back then being good because you could only effectively stack 1 plate without over loading your HAV PG wise. If you were talking Sagaris you were looking at 6500 1.3 = 8450 Shields plus those old Pulsing Boosters. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this."* -Kador Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14394	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:54:00 - [19] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: I've tested this, and I dare say there are too many variables. Plated VS unplated, Nitros basic or adv or non, as well as level surface or downhill, and even if the HAV in question is on a "tilt" surface (where your HAV moves slightly back an forth on it's own volition) or on a flat surface greatly effects this, as tilt surfaces offer substantial damage reduction and simply "push" you a bit. Most of the damage is from the LAV detonating and not the impact itself, at least according to tests done with a Saga II running the 60% AND 40% hardeners to better survive impacts. plated == you crap yourself but your still alive after a jihad to the ass. You cannot survive a Jihad Jeep in any viable armour tank statistically, unless you are using a one and done sponge fit. 5 Boundless RE @ 1750 Splash Damage each amounts to 8750 unmodified Damage plus the unspecified LAV impact and explosion. To clear the shields of a Madrugar you required 1440 explosive damage. 8750 - 1440 = 7310 damage1.2 ( 8772 damage against armour plating). If I wish to survive one I must stack 2 complex plates and a Hardener (no reps). At which point you might survive with 900 HP which may or may not be modified by the LAV's explosive radius. ((Pardon my atrocious maths)) "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this."* -Kador Ouryon
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2709	Posted - 2014.11.11 01:18:00 - [20] - Quote Math Smath... When I make a Jihad Jeep, I put all 12 REs on the sucker. Ka-friggin-blewey. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire

Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 51	Posted - 2014.11.11 02:57:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction. Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop Indeed and I am looking for that static variable. This primarily being the case to make a post about JLAV and the possible return of Marauders and Enforcers. You can roughly achieve 8750 damage without the static vehicle explosion stat on a player driven guided missile moving at 100kmph. If ground based pilots are going to be investing X million SP and in excess of 1.2 Million ISK (conservative estimate on fitted HAV) then there is no reason why such a vehicle should be subject to such a broken means of AV delivery. there is no way in God's creation those things can be re-introduced as they were without a massive AV revamp in general. They can be reintroduced if they are a variation and not an improvement. They need to have less HP and one less slot. However, they operate on their bonuses. The skill bonuses is what would offset the mods. Their really shouldn't be each type for each race. Rather the Marauder would be a Gal tank and the Enforcer a Cal tank. Much better flavor and dynamic that way. Also, easier to balance. Marauder would be Gal with better repper bonus and Enforcer would be Cal with better range. I think the range should apply to both missiles and rails. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14408	Posted - 2014.11.11 03:22:00 - [22] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: They can be reintroduced if they are a variation and not an improvement. They need to have less HP and one less slot. However, they operate on their bonuses. The skill bonuses is what would offset the mods. Their really shouldn't be each type for each race. Rather the Marauder would be a Gal tank and the Enforcer a Cal tank. Much better flavor and dynamic that way. Also, easier to balance. Marauder would be Gal with better repper bonus and Enforcer would be Cal with better range. I think the range should apply to both missiles and rails. Those are extremely bad statistics. I think we could do better. Personally I think that vehicle modules and turrets could use a shake up to limit the field without taking down utility. For example- And this is just an unrefined suggestion Amarr Leviathan Marauder 800 Shields 4000 Armour 2 High 4 Low Heat Sink II Locus Co-Ordinator 180mm Polycrystalline Armour Plating (2750 Armour if I remember correctly) Heavy Efficient Armor Repair Unit ( 30 Sec Duration, 3 sec pulse interval, 414 armour per pulse, cool down 65 sec) 2x Carapace Armour Hardeners EHP = 9575 (static before reps which would need some modifications) That's sub 10K which I think is roughly fair for a Marauder HAV to sit at considering the basic Gunnlogi can hit 9K easy peasy. Though to be fair an AV damage rebalance would then need to be taken into account or at the very least a HAV turret damage buff. "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect 516	Posted - 2014.11.11 06:58:00 - [23] - Quote Ive run over my share of blueberry speed violating lav pilots, and there is some damage. Which i think is lame because a jeep shouldnt do any collision damage to a tank.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2400	Posted - 2014.11.11 08:10:00 - [24] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP mentioned a while back that the explosion damage for vehicles is actually a set standard value that deals damage in a radius around the vehicle upon destruction. Don't remember what that value is, but I do know it isn't a variable Also, collision damage is still bugged when it comes to tank vs LAV. You can explode from a collision of 5mph because from my experience momentum is not reduced until the vehicle has made a complete stop Indeed and I am looking for that static variable. This primarily being the case to make a post about JLAV and the possible return of Marauders and Enforcers. You can roughly achieve 8750 damage without the static vehicle explosion stat on a player driven guided missile moving at 100kmph. If ground based pilots are going to be investing X million SP and in excess of 1.2 Million ISK (conservative estimate on fitted HAV) then there is no reason why such a vehicle should be subject to such a broken means of AV delivery. there is no way in God's creation those things can be re-introduced as they were without a massive AV revamp in general. Given with 3 slots a Gunnlogi can attain a 7120 Shield Buffer it's possible for a passive tanked Sagaris (especially if Shield Hardners or Extenders receive a bonus) to have a 9275 Shield Buffer plus armour for a total of 10775 EHP. It's worse when you consider Armour HAV (assuming a Madrugar with 4 slots) 7356.25 Armour HP plus 2x Heavy Reps and 1200 Shields for a total of 8556.25 EHP. Consider a projected Amarr HAV fit with say 4600 Armour and 800 Shields. 800 + (4600 + 1885 + 1885) 1.25 = 11262.5 EHP Currently not even Large Turrets could deal with them let alone AV. Only thing that might have a shot is a Jihad Jeep which is already a broken and bad mechanic. This entire game is a broken and bad mechanic. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f*k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!


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