DUST Search - Flatten out the damage/range curve on the Shotgun

Protocake JR wrote:

Proposed changes
Increase the range of shotguns, so that they are defensible up to around 30 to 40 meters. TTK at this range should be longer than rifles, but shotguns still remain a threat to wounded targets.

Tighten up the spread of shotguns. Up to around 15 to 20 meters, you should be able to distinguish aiming for the upper or lower half of the body. The closer you get from 15m will obviously make clean headshots "easier".

Lower damage. Full, clean, body shot should take off no than around 200 damage. From there, DPS will fluctuate depending on range, number of pellets that make contact, number of pellets that make contact with the head and of course meta level/SP/modifiers/breach variant.

Increase breach shotgun clip size by 2.

Implications of proposed changes
Shotguns become kings of cover-based engagements in CQC environments. Running in to a room and shotgunning 4 people in 1-2 shots will only be viable to those who are truly skilled enough to pull off headshots consistently. The tightening of the spread makes shotgunning at 5 meters slightly more difficult but still viable.

Increases TTK when using shotguns, however shotguns still remains a strong cqc option, especially in structural cover-based environments because of the increased range and best hipfire for the 10-20 meter range.

"But what about HMGs? Who's going to stop them now?"
HMGs are ridiculously overpowered weapons in terms of DPS, but this is augmented by the fact that HMGs can sustain fire for a very long time which is ALSO augmented by the fact that the platform HMGs operate on usually have 1000-1500HP or more. This shotgun idea was thought up in a world where HMGs are balanced. (I personally think that HMGs need larger dispersion and kick penalties while moving and making large aim adjustments, decreasing applied DPS in frantic CQC engagements without decreasing potential DPS )

Reasons
King of CQC? More like King of sexual assault. Seriously, having to get sooo close for this weapon to work is unappealing for several reasons. Narrow frame of view and low frames creates some really silly moments with this gun, especially when it's shotgun vs shotgun. Silly moments such as two fast strafing opponents shooting thin air, as they dodge in and out of each others frame of view. Then you get another silly moment where someone back pedals 5 meters and all of a sudden you are shooting marshmallows at the opponent. But the cheesiest moments of all, are all the ridiculous one hit kills you can get, just from body shots.

"But I got close! I deserve an EZ kill!"

No, you deserve an advantage, but definitely not a one or even two hit kill unless they were headshots. Closing the distance on an enemy is not that difficult, unless you are shotgunning on an open field (In this case, I believe the saying goes, "there is a time and a place for that").

I'm a firm believer that a fun shooter requires two things: Fair competition and meaningful player to player engagement. Easy one hit kills robs the victim of any meaningful engagement with the shotgunner. Being one hit killed by any means, shouldn't be a common occurrence in a game where the maps and spawn times are large. Especially in a game where people pay real money for gear.

"But EWAR!!!!"

Ewar is a flawed, overly simplistic, thumb-war style mechanic that is only useful for scout suits. To put it simply, I think more people find Ewar in this game more annoying and cheap rather than a fun and engaging mechanic. It's a stupid "all or nothing" mechanic. As an example: I can put dampeners, precision enhancers and range extenders (I actually tried these) on my minmatar and amarr assault but more often than not, when I die, I feel like these modules were useless because, I still got scanned, "snuck up" on, and 10m scan radius on a medium is a joke when the only threat to you inside 10m are scout shottys that you won't be able to pick up anyway, even with precision enhancers. They were wasted modules that were better off traded in for militia shield extenders and armor plates.

Anyway shotguns as they are now, are silly. What do you think about this? Question


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Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 189	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:54:00 - [1] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: Proposed changes Increase the range of shotguns, so that they are defensible up to around 30 to 40 meters. TTK at this range should be longer than rifles, but shotguns still remain a threat to wounded targets. Tighten up the spread of shotguns. Up to around 15 to 20 meters, you should be able to distinguish aiming for the upper or lower half of the body. The closer you get from 15m will obviously make clean headshots "easier". Lower damage. Full, clean, body shot should take off no than around 200 damage. From there, DPS will fluctuate depending on range, number of pellets that make contact, number of pellets that make contact with the head and of course meta level/SP/modifiers/breach variant. Increase breach shotgun clip size by 2. Implications of proposed changes Shotguns become kings of cover-based engagements in CQC environments. Running in to a room and shotgunning 4 people in 1-2 shots will only be viable to those who are truly skilled enough to pull off headshots consistently. The tightening of the spread makes shotgunning at 5 meters slightly more difficult but still viable. Increases TTK when using shotguns, however shotguns still remains a strong cqc option, especially in structural cover-based environments because of the increased range and best hipfire for the 10-20 meter range. "But what about HMGs? Who's going to stop them now?" HMGs are ridiculously overpowered weapons in terms of DPS, but this is augmented by the fact that HMGs can sustain fire for a very long time which is ALSO augmented by the fact that the platform HMGs operate on usually have 1000-1500HP or more. This shotgun idea was thought up in a world where HMGs are balanced. (I personally think that HMGs need larger dispersion and kick penalties while moving and making large aim adjustments, decreasing applied DPS in frantic CQC engagements without decreasing potential DPS ) Reasons King of CQC? More like King of sexual assault. Seriously, having to get sooo close for this weapon to work is unappealing for several reasons. Narrow frame of view and low frames creates some really silly moments with this gun, especially when it's shotgun vs shotgun. Silly moments such as two fast strafing opponents shooting thin air, as they dodge in and out of each others frame of view. Then you get another silly moment where someone back pedals 5 meters and all of a sudden you are shooting marshmallows at the opponent. But the cheesiest moments of all, are all the ridiculous one hit kills you can get, just from body shots. "But I got close! I deserve an EZ kill!" No, you deserve an advantage, but definitely not a one or even two hit kill unless they were headshots. Closing the distance on an enemy is not that difficult, unless you are shotgunning on an open field (In this case, I believe the saying goes, "there is a time and a place for that"). I'm a firm believer that a fun shooter requires two things: Fair competition and meaningful player to player engagement. Easy one hit kills robs the victim of any meaningful engagement with the shotgunner. Being one hit killed by any means, shouldn't be a common occurrence in a game where the maps and spawn times are large. Especially in a game where people pay real money for gear. "But EWAR!!!!" Ewar is a flawed, overly simplistic, thumb-war style mechanic that is only useful for scout suits. To put it simply, I think more people find Ewar in this game more annoying and cheap rather than a fun and engaging mechanic. It's a stupid "all or nothing" mechanic. As an example: I can put dampeners, precision enhancers and range extenders (I actually tried these) on my minmatar and amarr assault but more often than not, when I die, I feel like these modules were useless because, I still got scanned, "snuck up" on, and 10m scan radius on a medium is a joke when the only threat to you inside 10m are scout shottys that you won't be able to pick up anyway, even with precision enhancers. They were wasted modules that were better off traded in for militia shield extenders and armor plates. Anyway shotguns as they are now, are silly. What do you think about this? Shotgun changes would probably never happen. But year ewar is completely ******. If scanners only worked by scanning people within a certain distance of your line of sight and within a small radius around you it would be a better system than the current one. That way everyone has to look around to survive and there can be absolutely no stealth, just opportunity, when you see someone with their back facing towards you.(And of course you try to be stealthy and get closer you'd get killed but if you try to kill them from a distance you have an opportunity, but cannot waste anymore time. Besides that, its FPS 101 to have the least amount of OHKO weaponry possible(because of what you said and more), yet here we've the most possible. Just the best way I can put why this is in words is that a sci fi FPS is a great idea but if those Sci fi devs don't have any idea how warfare works and how the warfare can translate into the game where everyone benefits it won't work.