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Her Chosen
Grade No.2
27
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Posted - 2014.11.07 07:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
We've all seen the guy running around the map in his LAV, drives right up to a player, jumps out and instantly starts firing an HMG at the player. Sometimes, the HMG gets in over their head, but can still instantly jump back in his vehicle and escape at 100km/h. It makes zero sense that a heavy can instantly jump out of a vehicle and have his HMG wielded and ready to go.
So, I think a delay in exiting and entering a vehicle should be put in. And actual animation would be nice, but that's asking a lot. Not just for HMG murder taxis, but also ADS and DS pilots that get the privilege to jump out of there ship well after its been shot dead. Even the tanker that jumps out of his tank in time before the final kill blow reaches him (although, that one almost is an art and a skill in itself, because unlike ADSes and DSes, tanks insta-pop)
I think exiting the vehicle should take 3 seconds. Entering; 1.5 seconds. Vehicles are needed on the battlefield, but should be subject to exploit. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
899
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Posted - 2014.11.07 08:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm perfectly fine going down with my ADS. Just **** those Murder Taxis man...
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Powerh8er
The Rainbow Effect
516
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Posted - 2014.11.07 11:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
It also makes no sense that a machinegun has an optimal range of 20 meters.
Maybe the vehicles have ejector seats...
Who knows? Dust514 is weird that way. |
Timothy Reaper
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men.
905
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Posted - 2014.11.07 12:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:It also makes no sense that a machinegun has an optimal range of 20 meters.
Maybe the vehicles have ejector seats...
Who knows? Dust514 is weird that way. Why not have both? An ejector seat that launches you out quickly if you're going down in flames, and a delay for exiting the vehicle normally.
GÇ£Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.GÇ¥
GÇò Mark Twain
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3754
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Posted - 2014.11.07 14:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Animations would be too costly and straight delays with no UI explanation would be downright bad.
If we get another client patch I'd love to see entry and exit be timed like actions in destiny. Hit the button, circle fills up, and you are then in or out of the vehicle. They could break out the old forge gun and charge sniper circle to serve as the UI element.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
107
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Posted - 2014.11.07 14:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
1. It does not take me 3 seconds to get out of a vehicle 1a. Are you disabled or elderly or both?
2. To get in a vehicle i should not have to wait for a circle to fill up 2a. This would be more annoying because the hacking skill doesnt work on vehicles like when recalling
3. Exploiting - Thats is scouts throwing REs like grenades, or jihad jeeps, or swarms which can lock on behind cover and fire while not looking at the target and the missiles go around 3 corners because the tracking is broken and tracks to where you were and not where you are |
Vyuru
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
57
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Posted - 2014.11.07 15:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Honestly, have some kind of animation like exiting and entering vehicles in Halo. Simple, relatively fast, easy. Gives a small time window for people to shoot the person exiting/entering a vehicle and prevents vehicles from being "instant power armor upgrade" |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2059
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Posted - 2014.11.07 16:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
I agree wholehartedly that we need an animation/delay for entering/exiting vehicles. Exploiting this is just a cheap tactic.
And while we're at it, I suggest we add an animation/delay for placing explosives. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
902
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Posted - 2014.11.07 19:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. It does not take me 3 seconds to get out of a vehicle 1a. Are you disabled or elderly or both?
You are not carrying a heap of military-grade equipment, nor are you carrying a weapon - let alone a heavy weapon - nor are you wearing power armour.
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:2. To get in a vehicle i should not have to wait for a circle to fill up 2a. This would be more annoying because the hacking skill doesnt work on vehicles like when recalling
Why not? You have to stow your weapon then clamber in. The current teleporting is worse than a small timer that actually represents something. Or do you, in real life, actually teleport into your car?
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:3. Exploiting - Thats is scouts throwing REs like grenades, or jihad jeeps, or swarms which can lock on behind cover and fire while not looking at the target and the missiles go around 3 corners because the tracking is broken and tracks to where you were and not where you are
Well, technically speaking the Swarm thing is a bad mechanism, not exploitation, and the JLAV thing is intentional, or else it would've been addressed (either removed or otherwise commented on.) And while RE tossing can be annoying, it's also immediately countered with situational awareness: as a Sentinel on my alt (er, well, this character) I can say that avoiding REs is actually fairly reasonable to ask of someone - it's usually just that the person misses the toss or activation sound, or simply blunders around a corner. The worst part of RE tossing is roof camping, but that is an entire different box of frogs.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Mobius Wyvern
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
5393
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Posted - 2014.11.08 00:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:We've all seen the guy running around the map in his LAV, drives right up to a player, jumps out and instantly starts firing an HMG at the player. Sometimes, the HMG gets in over their head, but can still instantly jump back in his vehicle and escape at 100km/h. It makes zero sense that a heavy can instantly jump out of a vehicle and have his HMG wielded and ready to go.
So, I think a delay in exiting and entering a vehicle should be put in. And actual animation would be nice, but that's asking a lot. Not just for HMG murder taxis, but also ADS and DS pilots that get the privilege to jump out of there ship well after its been shot dead. Even the tanker that jumps out of his tank in time before the final kill blow reaches him (although, that one almost is an art and a skill in itself, because unlike ADSes and DSes, tanks insta-pop)
I think exiting the vehicle should take 3 seconds. Entering; 1.5 seconds. Vehicles are needed on the battlefield, but should be subject to exploit. As a dedicated vehicle user, I fully support this.
Being able to teleport into and out of vehicles is completely idiotic.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
118
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Posted - 2014.11.08 13:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. It does not take me 3 seconds to get out of a vehicle 1a. Are you disabled or elderly or both? You are not carrying a heap of military-grade equipment, nor are you carrying a weapon - let alone a heavy weapon - nor are you wearing power armour. Lazer Fo Cused wrote:2. To get in a vehicle i should not have to wait for a circle to fill up 2a. This would be more annoying because the hacking skill doesnt work on vehicles like when recalling Why not? You have to stow your weapon then clamber in. The current teleporting is worse than a small timer that actually represents something. Or do you, in real life, actually teleport into your car? Lazer Fo Cused wrote:3. Exploiting - Thats is scouts throwing REs like grenades, or jihad jeeps, or swarms which can lock on behind cover and fire while not looking at the target and the missiles go around 3 corners because the tracking is broken and tracks to where you were and not where you are Well, technically speaking the Swarm thing is a bad mechanism, not exploitation, and the JLAV thing is intentional, or else it would've been addressed (either removed or otherwise commented on.) And while RE tossing can be annoying, it's also immediately countered with situational awareness: as a Sentinel on my alt (er, well, this character) I can say that avoiding REs is actually fairly reasonable to ask of someone - it's usually just that the person misses the toss or activation sound, or simply blunders around a corner. The worst part of RE tossing is roof camping, but that is an entire different box of frogs.
1. The LAV has no doors and is open roof, whats to stop me from jumping in?
2. I am not stowing a weapon, i sling it roung my back and jump in 2a. When i get into my car in RL i do not hold and wait for a small circle to fill up and the closest i can teleport is jumping into it
3. Swarms are broken completely but its exploiting broken game mechanics 3a. Jihad is an exploit but also broken game mechanics, i cant put RE on friendly infantry so why can i do it on a vehicle? 3b. RE are being thrown like a grenade from an invisible scout and by the time it lands its ready to blow and unavoidable |
VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
176
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Posted - 2014.11.08 16:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
The easy solution for dropships would be to make them explode when they reach 0 hp, rather than a few seconds afterwards. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
911
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Posted - 2014.11.08 16:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. The LAV has no doors and is open roof, whats to stop me from jumping in?
Nothing stops you from jumping in, but you still have all of your equipment/weaponry floating about that is in the way of operating the vehicle.
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:2. I am not stowing a weapon, i sling it roung my back and jump in 2a. When i get into my car in RL i do not hold and wait for a small circle to fill up and the closest i can teleport is jumping into it
Yes, you are. Slinging the weapon over your back is not conducive to operating a vehicle: weaponry/equipment is relatively bulky and will interfere with your arms/legs when you attempt to use the controls. Quite simply, you need to take a moment to not have your stuff get in the way.
In real life, now you are mistaking in game mechanisms which replicate an action with mechanics which completely imitate real life. A simple, charging circle is much easier to code/implement than a full bevy of model motions. In other words, in game it is a simple change rather than implementing many complicated and unnecessary additions to achieve the same goal: a stopgap measure.
And again, you can jump into an open topped vehicle, but getting into a closed vehicle (even just a car) while holding several feet of metal and bulked out with military gear, you do not immediately get to operate the vehicle because they are almost certainly in the way and need to be stowed. Simply, your assertions are just wrong.
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:3. Swarms are broken completely but its exploiting broken game mechanics 3a. Jihad is an exploit but also broken game mechanics, i cant put RE on friendly infantry so why can i do it on a vehicle? 3b. RE are being thrown like a grenade from an invisible scout and by the time it lands its ready to blow and unavoidable
Swarms are not completely broken, they operate pretty damn close to right when targeting ground vehicles. REs on a vehicle are very different to REs on a person: placing REs on vehicles was introduced to allow people to booby trap or otherwose destroy them without specific light/heavy AV weaponry and to give REs more of a purpose than just heavy-busters.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
833
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Posted - 2014.11.08 17:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vyuru wrote:Honestly, have some kind of animation like exiting and entering vehicles in Halo. Simple, relatively fast, easy. Gives a small time window for people to shoot the person exiting/entering a vehicle and prevents vehicles from being "instant power armor upgrade" Thanks, I was going to ask how other strafe shooters do it. Halo is a good example.
That would require a comparatively large amount of animation work though, so I'm not sure whether we're going to see that in the near future.
Are there any other examples in other games with similarly large time-to-kill on how this is handled? |
Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD RUST415
435
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Posted - 2014.11.08 18:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. It does not take me 3 seconds to get out of a vehicle 1a. Are you disabled or elderly or both?
2. To get in a vehicle i should not have to wait for a circle to fill up 2a. This would be more annoying because the hacking skill doesnt work on vehicles like when recalling
3. Exploiting - Thats is scouts throwing REs like grenades, or jihad jeeps, or swarms which can lock on behind cover and fire while not looking at the target and the missiles go around 3 corners because the tracking is broken and tracks to where you were and not where you are
Clearly a tanker.... and not a good one?!
Missiles from swarms DON'T lock on from behind walls?! They lock on while the merc moves! So if i lock onto you then retreat left behind cover while turning my swarm launcher right the lock on stays red for about a second and fires. In order to do well against an enemy you must understand said enemy better than you understand yourself.
The issue with the enter/exit mechanic is it allows sentinels to jump out spraying. In the case of the murder taxi it allows proto sentinels to get as close as they want to a enemy with low hp, and gun him down leaving no room for escape?! In the event that the prey becomes predator the sentinel jumps back in the LAV in a cowardly fashion and runs away because he bit off more than he could chew?! No dropsuit can outrun an lav, and sense they have added larger scan profiles to vehicles (thank god) hopefully I can see this bs coming for a ways out.
I also don't agree with dropships not exploding in mid-air. If I put enough damage out to kill it he should blow up right there and then! Not me wasting ammo on a dead dropship because at 0 armor 0 shield he may still fly away?! Just saying
"Anybody order chaos?"
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3763
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Posted - 2014.11.08 19:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think another solution to the pop in and out of LAVs could be to remove their resistance to non AV weapons.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
122
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Posted - 2014.11.10 13:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. It does not take me 3 seconds to get out of a vehicle 1a. Are you disabled or elderly or both?
2. To get in a vehicle i should not have to wait for a circle to fill up 2a. This would be more annoying because the hacking skill doesnt work on vehicles like when recalling
3. Exploiting - Thats is scouts throwing REs like grenades, or jihad jeeps, or swarms which can lock on behind cover and fire while not looking at the target and the missiles go around 3 corners because the tracking is broken and tracks to where you were and not where you are Clearly a tanker.... and not a good one?! Missiles from swarms DON'T lock on from behind walls?! They lock on while the merc moves! So if i lock onto you then retreat left behind cover while turning my swarm launcher right the lock on stays red for about a second and fires. In order to do well against an enemy you must understand said enemy better than you understand yourself. The issue with the enter/exit mechanic is it allows sentinels to jump out spraying. In the case of the murder taxi it allows proto sentinels to get as close as they want to a enemy with low hp, and gun him down leaving no room for escape?! In the event that the prey becomes predator the sentinel jumps back in the LAV in a cowardly fashion and runs away because he bit off more than he could chew?! No dropsuit can outrun an lav, and sense they have added larger scan profiles to vehicles (thank god) hopefully I can see this bs coming for a ways out. I also don't agree with dropships not exploding in mid-air. If I put enough damage out to kill it he should blow up right there and then! Not me wasting ammo on a dead dropship because at 0 armor 0 shield he may still fly away?! Just saying
1. Yes you can lock on with the SL from behind cover, i have done this and retreated behind cover with the lock on intact
2. Sandbox - The LAV is fine, the sentinal is fine, they are using a tactic to overcome a problem but this is not allowed, yet when i say the jihad jeep is wrong i get 'sandbox' shouted back at me so if the jihad jeep stays then the LAV sentianl stays in my book - Cant be a hypocrite and have it all your way
3. If a DS flies away with 0/0 but it still flying you didnt do a good enough job |
Mobius Wyvern
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
5406
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Posted - 2014.11.10 15:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Bradric Banewolf wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. It does not take me 3 seconds to get out of a vehicle 1a. Are you disabled or elderly or both?
2. To get in a vehicle i should not have to wait for a circle to fill up 2a. This would be more annoying because the hacking skill doesnt work on vehicles like when recalling
3. Exploiting - Thats is scouts throwing REs like grenades, or jihad jeeps, or swarms which can lock on behind cover and fire while not looking at the target and the missiles go around 3 corners because the tracking is broken and tracks to where you were and not where you are Clearly a tanker.... and not a good one?! Missiles from swarms DON'T lock on from behind walls?! They lock on while the merc moves! So if i lock onto you then retreat left behind cover while turning my swarm launcher right the lock on stays red for about a second and fires. In order to do well against an enemy you must understand said enemy better than you understand yourself. The issue with the enter/exit mechanic is it allows sentinels to jump out spraying. In the case of the murder taxi it allows proto sentinels to get as close as they want to a enemy with low hp, and gun him down leaving no room for escape?! In the event that the prey becomes predator the sentinel jumps back in the LAV in a cowardly fashion and runs away because he bit off more than he could chew?! No dropsuit can outrun an lav, and sense they have added larger scan profiles to vehicles (thank god) hopefully I can see this bs coming for a ways out. I also don't agree with dropships not exploding in mid-air. If I put enough damage out to kill it he should blow up right there and then! Not me wasting ammo on a dead dropship because at 0 armor 0 shield he may still fly away?! Just saying 1. Yes you can lock on with the SL from behind cover, i have done this and retreated behind cover with the lock on intact 2. Sandbox - The LAV is fine, the sentinal is fine, they are using a tactic to overcome a problem but this is not allowed, yet when i say the jihad jeep is wrong i get 'sandbox' shouted back at me so if the jihad jeep stays then the LAV sentianl stays in my book - Cant be a hypocrite and have it all your way 3. If a DS flies away with 0/0 but it still flying you didnt do a good enough job
1. I can confirm that actually works
2. The Russians farming so much minerals out of the Dronelands that it put all the miners out of business was also "sandbox", and CCP stepped in and changed it becuase it was ruining the game for so many people.
3. Or if it's a repping Incubus, because I'm almost impossible to actually kill in one of those thanks to constant passive reps.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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