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An example of why this game makes me scratch my head

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Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5371	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:11:00 - [1] - Quote There's this guy I follow on Twitch who specializes in jets when he plays BF4. He and other jet pilots in Battlefield 4 have actually presented a new physics and flight mechanic model to DICE that requires more skill from pilots kind of like Ace Combat instead of being easymode. The DICE guy they gave it to said he loved it and the team has approved it and is working on implementing it. A company affiliated with EA is working on making a change to game mechanics in a $60 pay-to-play title that they've already shipped all the DLC for, meaning it's pretty much of no further use to them for income. CCP is running a F2P FPS that has the potential to remain a viable source of income up until the day it shut's down, and they won't listen to community advice on the smallest things. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Hector Carson BLACK MAGES INC. 66	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:13:00 - [2] - Quote So what your saying is you want them to turn DUST into a pay to play? Scout shoots Sentinel like a BOSS.........with a Bolt Pistol
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5373	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:20:00 - [3] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: So what your saying is you want them to turn DUST into a pay to play? ...I'm honestly confused as to how you could have determined that to be the point of my post. The point of my post is that while a developer that has very little financial incentive to make a change to their game seems comparatively happy to do so, CCP is reluctant to take community feedback on anything and the financial incentive should be massive since people will only put money into this game if they enjoy it. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
sir RAVEN WING Huogikku Corporation Heiian Conglomerate 85	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:24:00 - [4] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: There's this guy I follow on Twitch who specializes in jets when he plays BF4. He and other jet pilots in Battlefield 4 have actually presented a new physics and flight mechanic model to DICE that requires more skill from pilots kind of like Ace Combat instead of being easymode. The DICE guy they gave it to said he loved it and the team has approved it and is working on implementing it. A company affiliated with EA is working on making a change to game mechanics in a $60 pay-to-play title that they've already shipped all the DLC for, meaning it's pretty much of no further use to them for income. CCP is running a F2P FPS that has the potential to remain a viable source of income up until the day it shut's down, and they won't listen to community advice on the smallest things. You wish for CCP to listen? Give them something shiny enough and they might or maybe a lot of green paper, or white, or beige. Creative with guns
Jynx'D Heaven's Lost Property 0	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:25:00 - [5] - Quote It's not like CCP has completely ignored us, and this is only one instance in which the BF4 community was heard - if you asked there general forums they feel pretty much the same way we do about CCP. It is nice to see companies do things for there communities rather then the cash grabs CCP is giving us....
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5314	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:42:00 - [6] - Quote How exactly do you get the idea that CCP doesn't listen to their players? 1.9 includes a reduction to the range of cloaked scouts, which Rattati got from Haerr in the Barbershop. For each hotfix, Rattati has directly gone to the forums and posted threads for feedback, and has on occasion made changes based on that feedback. How is that not listening? 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
sir RAVEN WING Huogikku Corporation Heiian Conglomerate 85	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:44:00 - [7] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: How exactly do you get the idea that CCP doesn't listen to their players? 1.9 includes a reduction to the range of cloaked scouts, which Rattati got from Haerr in the Barbershop. For each hotfix, Rattati has directly gone to the forums and posted threads for feedback, and has on occasion made changes based on that feedback. How is that not listening? They do listen! Yes, they do and I like that! I will stop spewing random comments. Creative with guns
Shiyou Hidiyoshi Ancient Exiles. 1029	Posted - 2014.11.02 23:48:00 - [8] - Quote Ace Combat flying takes skill??? Now you're just making me scratch my head lol Ace Combat Dog fights: Spin in circles for 5 minutes or go in between buildings. No one really used actual high altitude flying skills. Ace Combat bombing: Felt like farming in an MMO, just keep clicking buttons when you see something and move to the next area. In Assault Horizon I was a very nasty bomber but the think is, I don't understand why not that many people were. It literally is just shoot then move to the next target, requires no aiming or manuvering. "I don't always lock threads but when I do, I vigorously masterbait afterwards." - CCP LockingBro
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4332	Posted - 2014.11.03 00:13:00 - [9] - Quote So the hot fixes never happened and 1.9 is just something my dog Bentley made up so he could go outside? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1344	Posted - 2014.11.03 00:22:00 - [10] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Hector Carson wrote: So what your saying is you want them to turn DUST into a pay to play? ...I'm honestly confused as to how you could have determined that to be the point of my post. The point of my post is that while a developer that has very little financial incentive to make a change to their game seems comparatively happy to do so, CCP is reluctant to take community feedback on anything and the financial incentive should be massive since people will only put money into this game if they enjoy it. I think that they listen as well , wasn't always on the same page but you must admit that CCP was going threw a transformative stage where they acquire a company that they had plans for that the projects fell threw and people lost their jobs , some of the DEV's that originally work on Dust left for some reason or another , people stepped up in place of those who vacated positions and right now , their dialogue between themselves or a part of the company and the community has grown more then previously . That's not to say that they have been out of touch with the community but even some who were vocal participants besides LogiBro left as well and sent twitter messages threw their pages to the community to inform them . It's hard to criticize them with all that has went on for that establishment in the past months , the only thing that's warranted was how they handled FF for the dusters who made that trip , only to be personally embarrassed by the decision to move platforms but that's a business decision that should have and could have been handled differently and I believe that's part of why Rattati is so hands on with the community , it's not just to pick our brains but to let the community know that our idea's are valued , even if not applied and how we feel about what's going on matters . Is it perfect , just might not be .. but it's better then it was and it's nice to feel a part of a team , even if were not there during the tough decisions that are made and hands on with the work and all , it's still good to feel like the feedback is appreciated and some of it is even applied . True change and process doesn't come overnight but it's nice when steps are actual and seen threw interaction and exchange . Something is better then nothing , sometimes you have to crawl before you can walk and it's obvious that CCP is trying to stand strong in it's steps . I'm thankful for that . Could things be better , yes ... but people , even created perfect like they are , do not act perfectly ( free will ) but you have to give credit when some notice their shortcomings and attempt to change for the better . This world use to be about change and second chances but people have become so confined in their thoughts and opinions that they expect perfection while they themselves do not act perfectly . I believe in second chances , it might be the chance and the change that most need ... if they don't transform , then whatever happens after that is only fair and just if it's condemnation . Thank you Rattati , the DEV crew and the CPM for getting the job of 1.9 done .

Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5373	Posted - 2014.11.03 00:27:00 - [11] - Quote Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote: Ace Combat flying takes skill??? Now you're just making me scratch my head lol Ace Combat Dog fights: Spin in circles for 5 minutes or go in between buildings. No one really used actual high altitude flying skills. Ace Combat bombing: Felt like farming in an MMO, just keep clicking buttons when you see something and move to the next area. In Assault Horizon I was a very nasty bomber but the thing is, I don't understand why not that many people were just as good or better. It literally is just shoot then move to the next target, requires no aiming or manuvering. Have you played Ace Combat Infinity? Spinning in circles will just get you killed, as will trying to trick-stall or lure people into endless loops. If you don't have a basic grasp of how to manuever, you just die over and over. It really rewards skilled players now. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5373	Posted - 2014.11.03 00:29:00 - [12] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: How exactly do you get the idea that CCP doesn't listen to their players? 1.9 includes a reduction to the range of cloaked scouts, which Rattati got from Haerr in the Barbershop. For each hotfix, Rattati has directly gone to the forums and posted threads for feedback, and has on occasion made changes based on that feedback. How is that not listening? As a counter, how many examples can you list before CCP Rattati was given the reins of Dust 514? How many times over the Closed Beta, Open Beta, and after release have any attempts at opening a dialogue with CCP been completely ignored? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 604	Posted - 2014.11.03 01:08:00 - [13] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: There's this guy I follow on Twitch who specializes in jets when he plays BF4. He and other jet pilots in Battlefield 4 have actually presented a new physics and flight mechanic model to DICE that requires more skill from pilots kind of like Ace Combat instead of being easymode. The DICE guy they gave it to said he loved it and the team has approved it and is working on implementing it. A company affiliated with EA is working on making a change to game mechanics in a $60 pay-to-play title that they've already shipped all the DLC for, meaning it's pretty much of no further use to them for income. CCP is running a F2P FPS that has the potential to remain a viable source of income up until the day it shut's down, and they won't listen to community advice on the smallest things. The problem has always been that they take too dam* long to get around to developing anything. They won't jump on great features. They take six months to add or tweak the slightest little thing. For all you who would say look at what they've been doing lately with the quick updates; I say, they started all this recent update stuff back when they got cornholed on Incarna. They just waited until they were ready to start releasing it and even then instead of releasing one big patch, they give the illusion of better development processes by just releasing a little along as they develop more stuff. Yeah, so they finally figured out overlap. Whoopie! Boycott Black Thursday!
Protocake JR USA Caucasians 1513	Posted - 2014.11.03 01:33:00 - [14] - Quote It's very rare for people to give worthwhile feedback like this. Normal people don't have any experience in this type of stuff, so when people dislike something about a game, they may blame something that is unrelated. The people who presented that idea to DICE weren't your normal average forum warriors. They understood the mechanics well enough to know what makes BF4 a game. Because they understood what makes this game, a game, they were able to design something better. You know what I want to see when Legion comes out? Quiet. CCP needs to have a vision clear and reachable enough that they can create the game themselves without having to say, "oops, we messed up. What do we do guys?", And spend the next 6 updates remaking, and rebalancing content we already have because KNOW ONE knows what they are doing.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2253	Posted - 2014.11.03 02:12:00 - [15] - Quote Lets not kid ourselves here, CCP has traditional made some questionable decisions, especially in the earlier days of DUST. I say without hesitation, if we had Rattati and his guys back then, with reasonable resources available and possibly more devs - this game would have evolved totally differently and much better. Granted Rattati isn't perfect by any means but the community as a whole agree that he has done a great job in the last few months with the limited resources available. Just imagine what his team could have achieved if they were there back in chromosome build or back in the early uprising days...... Food for thought. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4230	Posted - 2014.11.03 02:20:00 - [16] - Quote I believe most, if not all, of the changes post-Rattati were community-based. Selling back Cloaks Cloak Range Reduction RR CQC Nerf Militia parity BPO Return New Map Ion Pistol Buff Scout Changes in General Assault Buff These were all changes wanted by the community and we got them in one form or another.
Mike Ox Bigger Extremely Wicked 329	Posted - 2014.11.03 02:53:00 - [17] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: There's this guy I follow on Twitch who specializes in jets when he plays BF4. He and other jet pilots in Battlefield 4 have actually presented a new physics and flight mechanic model to DICE that requires more skill from pilots kind of like Ace Combat instead of being easymode. The DICE guy they gave it to said he loved it and the team has approved it and is working on implementing it. A company affiliated with EA is working on making a change to game mechanics in a $60 pay-to-play title that they've already shipped all the DLC for, meaning it's pretty much of no further use to them for income. CCP is running a F2P FPS that has the potential to remain a viable source of income up until the day it shut's down, and they won't listen to community advice on the smallest things. I think CCP does a good job at listening to it's players almost to a fault. They over nerf everything that gets complained about on the forums until a patch later down the road brings them back up to a competitive level. Some of their changes take a while to get done too. I for one can't believe scouts are still the way they are. That cloak change isn't going to be enough of a difference maker. Maybe they're still waiting on more numbers?...
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5377	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:52:00 - [18] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Lets not kid ourselves here, CCP has traditional made some questionable decisions, especially in the earlier days of DUST. I say without hesitation, if we had Rattati and his guys back then, with reasonable resources available and possibly more devs - this game would have evolved totally differently and much better. Granted Rattati isn't perfect by any means but the community as a whole agree that he has done a great job in the last few months with the limited resources available. Just imagine what his team could have achieved if they were there back in chromosome build or back in the early uprising days...... Food for thought. I agree completely. Rattati is the best thing to happen to this game. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 156	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:19:00 - [19] - Quote I've played an ace combat game, and I have been often hit by missiles in the game regardless of the fact that I was doing legitimate real life basic through advanced flight maneuvers. Blegh.... In infinity you will just fail all the time unless you have great mods or the planes vet players get or you just blow credits into upgrading one kind of plane as far as possible(DASSAULT MIRAGE 200/HARRIER/SUPER HORNET MASTER RACE!) Anyways they may listen, but just not on the right things. The community does the same. Like someone put before. The scout cloak delay was suggested by a user, yet it is useless by observation. Just like rail rifle spool up time it will barely effect scouts in any way, as scouts will get used to it to a point that they won't notice it anymore. It's probably going to make them miss with their shotguns or knives a lot, which is funny. Though that cloak signature radius nerf... THAT has some practicality. On small vacation surfing on Caldari Tanks.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7256	Posted - 2014.11.03 06:11:00 - [20] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Shiyou Hidiyoshi wrote: Ace Combat flying takes skill??? Now you're just making me scratch my head lol Ace Combat Dog fights: Spin in circles for 5 minutes or go in between buildings. No one really used actual high altitude flying skills. Ace Combat bombing: Felt like farming in an MMO, just keep clicking buttons when you see something and move to the next area. In Assault Horizon I was a very nasty bomber but the thing is, I don't understand why not that many people were just as good or better. It literally is just shoot then move to the next target, requires no aiming or manuvering. Have you played Ace Combat Infinity? Spinning in circles will just get you killed, as will trying to trick-stall or lure people into endless loops. If you don't have a basic grasp of how to manuever, you just die over and over. It really rewards skilled players now. Inverse Split-S FTW Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.

Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7257	Posted - 2014.11.03 06:12:00 - [21] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Lets not kid ourselves here, CCP has traditional made some questionable decisions, especially in the earlier days of DUST. I say without hesitation, if we had Rattati and his guys back then, with reasonable resources available and possibly more devs - this game would have evolved totally differently and much better. Granted Rattati isn't perfect by any means but the community as a whole agree that he has done a great job in the last few months with the limited resources available. Just imagine what his team could have achieved if they were there back in chromosome build or back in the early uprising days...... Food for thought. I agree completely. Rattati is the best thing to happen to this game. Can we rename Dust514 to Dust: Rattati? Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 147	Posted - 2014.11.03 06:34:00 - [22] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: There's this guy I follow on Twitch who specializes in jets when he plays BF4. He and other jet pilots in Battlefield 4 have actually presented a new physics and flight mechanic model to DICE that requires more skill from pilots kind of like Ace Combat instead of being easymode. The DICE guy they gave it to said he loved it and the team has approved it and is working on implementing it. A company affiliated with EA is working on making a change to game mechanics in a $60 pay-to-play title that they've already shipped all the DLC for, meaning it's pretty much of no further use to them for income. CCP is running a F2P FPS that has the potential to remain a viable source of income up until the day it shut's down, and they won't listen to community advice on the smallest things. Not every developer is a douche and many really like their job. Also the main difference is attitude towards their product and capabilities I think. DICE has the talent , the money , manpower and the leadership to do somethings on their game and probably change complex things in their games. I don't think CCP has some of that like the manpower or money - if you look at the year really many of the changes were to balancing and modifying values on current systems . Of course they did release around 5 base guns, some suits, and some modules over the course of the year, but that tells you their ability or the focus was on stuff but focus shifted on something else. Attitude towards the product for BF4 and Dust by their respective companies can be anyone's guess.


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