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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6877
   |
Posted - 2014.11.02 01:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
1.) 48 hour Alphas/Betas. Seriously, nothing says 'money grab' like letting your consumers play the game for a very limited amount of time (usually in the middle of a work week).
2.) 'X' Console Exclusive features. FFS, all this does is establish that you as a game development studio are playing favorites. It's not like games being exclusive to one console, that's fine - I'm talking about console specific DLC's and events (for instance how it took almost AN ENTIRE YEAR for the PS3 to get Skyrim: Dawnguard).
3.) "30 FPS looks more cinematic" Yeah, I feel you, I personally as a player like playing some games in 30 FPS because it gives it a more visceral feeling... But let's not bull**** anyone by saying it's more 'cinematic' when you really mean 'we don't feel like optimizing'. There is absolutely no reason any PC game should have a frame-rate cap and if you're low-balling on the frame-rate for a console, it's probably because you simply don't want to admit the console can't run it with 60+ FPS performance. (see Assassin's Creed controversy)
4.) Forced "Always On" multiplayer in games that truly don't need them. EA is terrible about this with games like Sim City. A game that is largely focused on a single-player theme should not have elements forced upon them that are multiplayer unless they choose to do so. No-one is impressed by this kind of social interaction, it's just annoying.
5.) Vitrolic communities. Dust 514 is bad about this at times (herp derp we already know about this even though it's news to you) but LoL was the -WORST-. Nothing says douche baggery like a handful of self-proclaimed elite players all vying to abuse the automatic reporting system because you did something outside of the norm in a game that is largely about experimenting with a -VAST- set of tools to cater to your playstyle.
6.) Jack-in-the-Box Co-Op. Mass Effect 3 and Dead Space 3 are just two of many. Games that catered to single-players forging their own story or discovering it on their own and then suddenly BOOM, in comes a co-op aspect in your beloved franchise that practically forces you to find a buddy or random ***hat to see all that the game has to offer; often times locking away crucial aspects of the story behind a social barrier.
7.) Pre-orders. I have -NEVER- liked pre-orders because you're basically gambling with your investment. Take for instance: Destiny. An arguably over-hyped game that took all the worst parts of an MMO and shoe-horned them into something it wasn't, then marketed it as something it wasn't. Activision was taking pre-orders for Destiny on the next gen consoles before they were even announced. Destiny Pre-orders were being taken before the game had anything more then concept art and a three paragraph description that basically described Borderlands. No screenshots, no gameplay video, no development testimonials. Just the word of a publisher.
8.) Pre-order and Retail Exclusive Bonuses. Two words: Money grab. See above.
Feel free to post yours.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
5279
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Posted - 2014.11.02 01:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sexism.
As someone with a background in the professional and collegiate sports business, the video game industry is by far the worst.
That is thunderbolt is just annoying.
1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
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Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
871
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Posted - 2014.11.02 04:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Sexism.
As someone with a background in the professional and collegiate sports business, the video game industry is by far the worst.
That thunderbolt is just annoying.
*sharp intake of breath*
*uncomfortable noises*
Yeah, you just nailed the biggest elephant in the room and arguable killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Hard. Sexism is not only apparent in video games themselves (I'm remembering some fireworks going up about the new Tomb Raider reboot game), but also working in the industry itself as a female. Segway time.
You guys hear about some sh*t going down about female video game developers having to move in fear of their lives at times? There was a Gawker article but all that article seemed to do was bash some people. Can anyone shed some light on that for me and/or point me toward an more informative article about what the hell is going on? I think they were calling it "Gamergate"...
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
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Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
871
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Posted - 2014.11.02 04:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
"1.) 48 hour Alphas/Betas. Seriously, nothing says 'money grab' like letting your consumers play the game for a very limited amount of time (usually in the middle of a work week)."
Depends as some betas did this as an open beta, closing the ability to do any purchases (Ace Combat: Infinity). However, it could be countered that AC:I held it for a week instead of 48 hours.
Dust also had options open and things to pay for while in beta, but again, the Open Beta was from January 10th to May 14th I believe, allowing people plenty of time to play it.
Given exactly what you said, opening payment options while only allowing 48 hours of game time within a certain period does irk me as well, and as such, I fully agree with this.
"2.) 'X' Console Exclusive features. FFS, all this does is establish that you as a game development studio are playing favorites. It's not like games being exclusive to one console, that's fine - I'm talking about console specific DLC's and events (for instance how it took almost AN ENTIRE YEAR for the PS3 to get Skyrim: Dawnguard)."
I'm not sure how often this happens, but when it does, it irks me too.
"3.) "30 FPS looks more cinematic" Yeah, I feel you, I personally as a player like playing some games in 30 FPS because it gives it a more visceral feeling... But let's not bull**** anyone by saying it's more 'cinematic' when you really mean 'we don't feel like optimizing'. There is absolutely no reason any PC game should have a frame-rate cap and if you're low-balling on the frame-rate for a console, it's probably because you simply don't want to admit the console can't run it with 60+ FPS performance. (see Assassin's Creed controversy)"
Remember the Zone of the Enders HD remake? Granted they ran smack into something different: instead of "we don't feel like optimizing" it was "we had trouble optimizing". The original Zone of Enders was made on the Playstation 2 and ran at 60 frames per second without any dropping. When reviews came out people noticed that on both versions for the Xbox 360 and the PS3 were maintaining an average of 30ish frames per second, dropping down to 24 during times of high particles and objects on screen.
It's a different example for a different argument but I felt it was something similar that irked me. Yes I know the HD remake was essentially a game running on an emulator and it's difficult to pull a game from only one generation back to current generation without some loss of quality.....
Or I'm just making stuff up, ignore my paragraph above (unless you do get what I was trying to say. If so, thank you).
"4.) Forced "Always On" multiplayer in games that truly don't need them. EA is terrible about this with games like Sim City. A game that is largely focused on a single-player theme should not have elements forced upon them that are multiplayer unless they choose to do so. No-one is impressed by this kind of social interaction, it's just annoying."
Basically "Always On" singleplayer. Remember Battlefield Singleplayer? Oh, can't connect to Battlelog you can't play. Dragon Age: Origins? Servers are down, can't play.
*blink blink* But I'm playing single player why do I need to be connected to the internet to play single player?
It also reminds me of an old ancient traditional ritual we used to do 10 years ago. Those rituals were called LAN parties.
I say that to someone 10 years younger than me and they look at me like I stepped out of a Tardis or a DeLorean. I proceed to vacate my green acres and attempt to grow a neckbeard and strap a pin to my shirt that says "Bittervet".
"5.) Vitrolic communities. Dust 514 is bad about this at times (herp derp we already know about this even though it's news to you) but LoL was the -WORST-. Nothing says douche baggery like a handful of self-proclaimed elite players all vying to abuse the automatic reporting system because you did something outside of the norm in a game that is largely about experimenting with a -VAST- set of tools to cater to your playstyle."
I heard LoL's community rivaled that of /b/ of 4-chan. I'm not sure whether that was something to be proud or ashamed of, but hearing that made me take active steps to avoid ever installing, playing, or watching that game.
"6.) Jack-in-the-Box Co-Op. Mass Effect 3 and Dead Space 3 are just two of many. Games that catered to single-players forging their own story or discovering it on their own and then suddenly BOOM, in comes a co-op aspect in your beloved franchise that practically forces you to find a buddy or random ***hat to see all that the game has to offer; often times locking away crucial aspects of the story behind a social barrier."
Ew.
"7.) Pre-orders. I have -NEVER- liked pre-orders because you're basically gambling with your investment. Take for instance: Destiny. An arguably over-hyped game that took all the worst parts of an MMO and shoe-horned them into something it wasn't, then marketed it as something it wasn't. Activision was taking pre-orders for Destiny on the next gen consoles before they were even announced. Destiny Pre-orders were being taken before the game had anything more then concept art and a three paragraph description that basically described Borderlands. No screenshots, no gameplay video, no development testimonials. Just the word of a publisher. "
"8.) Pre-order and Retail Exclusive Bonuses. Two words: Money grab. See above."
This is a tough one to balance: developers wanting to reward early adopters, customers wanting unique items, some marketing strategy behind it all, and keeping brick-and-mortar video game stores around. Running out of characters so I'll continue in another post....
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
13386
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Posted - 2014.11.02 04:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Here's a pretty good video explaining the #GamerGate situation.
The 1st Matari Commando
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Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
871
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 05:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Continuing from above....
There's a whole marketing thing that goes into this. I don't have the full understanding of it all but I believe there is a huge burden on developers when this happens.
1) Keeping Retailers Alive
First off, I know Gamestop stays alive as a brick-and-mortar store mainly because it has reached out to many developers to work with them. Developers create Pre-Order bonuses in order to attract customers to those stores. Those customers buy those pre-orders and become potential buyers for other things as well. This brings profit to the store allowing the store to continue to exist.
2) Gameplay Advantage
But are they worth it? I believe in the past, some items offered a gameplay advantage. However, it became apparent to not do this in multiplayer game as it could easily lead to "pay-to-win" scenarios.
An example of the top of my head would be something like this: a glock, a 1911, and a five-seven are in the game. The pre-order bonus is a Desert Eagle with an extended clip. In game stats puts the Desert Eagle with highest damage, longest range, and most bullet penetration, along with, we'll say, 2nd fastest fire rate.
(Disclaimer: As you can probably tell, my gun knowledge comes from a combination of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, Counter Strike, FPS Russia, and Upotte!. Go ahead. Laugh. I know. My gun knowledge is on par with the girl who thinks milk comes from pigs. Inserting my foot into mouth now.)
ANYWAYS
To finish off my point, unfair gameplay advantages are generally looked down upon and are avoided now. So what else can they offer?
3) Custom Visuals
Another route they might go is allowing a player to have a special camo on a gun. This would discern players who bought the game ahead of time or bought the premium package something to show off to separate them from the rest of the plebians players and show off their early adoption.
But even then, there are people who complain about not having everything unlocked, stuck at 99% completion (in their minds) because they don't have all the customization options. One good example that comes to mind is Soulcalibur IV: if you didn't purchase the special premium edition, you were locked out of 5-10% of the costume options to make your unique characters. For some who played fighting games and didn't worry about how their characters looked to an exact extent, this small detail didn't matter. But for some who had recipes to make custom characters and those custom character required having the premium edition for those special items, it irked a lot of people. (One of those being me, however I didn't raise hellfire and brimstone over it.)
So custom visuals work in some cases, but sometimes players want to be able to unlock everything, even if they weren't early adopters or premium pack purchasers (ha. alliteration). So what next?
4) Early Upgrades
Go the route that Dust and Destiny have taken. Give equipment and weapons to players that they can use early on, which is able to be acquired later in the game. By far, this is the best strategy as it can incorporate any or all of the first 3. It gives a gameplay advantage, but only for a short period of time. Arguably, it gives you a starting boost but not a full-term advantage across the board. These items can have camo on them as well. For instance, I remember reading someone getting 'Pyrus' Nova Knives simply because of the camo they had on them. Finally, going back to point one, you can talk with retailers to give away pre-orders or special bonuses, which Dust and Destiny both did.
In conclusion, yes, it's all a cash grab. But it's also marketing. It's supply and demand. It's economics. And it's all over my head to explain everything but I was able to hopefully explain the basics. So yes, I agree it's a cash grab Aeon. However, with the cash in the right hands of both consumer and developer, the customer (player) makes a conscious decision to purchase an in-game item, putting forth their money for not just the item, but to give the developer some monetary contribution in good faith to continue to develop the game and help it's growth and sustainability.
In short: The game industry is art. It's economics. It's music. It's business. It's marketing. It's community.
It's ugly, yet beautiful.
(And with that, I'm going to sleep and probably wake up tomorrow to read this and go: I wrote all that?  )
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6880
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 07:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Well put.
Yeah, Marketing is all a cash grab but there are certain practices that are downright -annoying-. Big time publishers like Activision ****ting out a game like Destiny that wound up having worse ratings on Metacritic than Dust 514 can cover their losses because, "Eh, who cares, we got 'em on the pre-orders".
Dust 514 has had it's fair share of marketing backstabs. Like when everyone was having issues with the contact grenades because they were -extremely overpowered-. Devs are already looking into it, planning on making balance changes... public is ready for it to happen while the trolls stock up en masse to continue using their pay-to-win only mechanic until the bitter end...
What's CCP's Marketing team do?
Release a sale on them!
And to give further evidence at just how disconnected they were with the game they trying to market they sold two variants of the contact grenades which had -the exact same stats- for two separate prices.
It's not so much marketing in general that aggravates me but when marketing directly contradicts the overall health of the game they're trying to sell? That's when I get a little iffy. Makes me question who's side they're on 
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
1803
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Posted - 2014.11.02 08:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
1) corruption in gaming journalism ie; people against gg
2) people falsely accusing sexism in video games themselves. Yes there are instances of it but its a two way street.
3) people pushing political agendas in video games themselves.
4) lack of vancian spell casting in video games.
Delt for CPM2
CPM1 MISSION : FAILED
Moss-delt on skype
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
1803
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Posted - 2014.11.02 08:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Sexism.
As someone with a background in the professional and collegiate sports business, the video game industry is by far the worst.
That thunderbolt is just annoying. *sharp intake of breath* *uncomfortable noises* Yeah, you just nailed the biggest elephant in the room and arguable killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Hard. Sexism is not only apparent in video games themselves (I'm remembering some fireworks going up about the new Tomb Raider reboot game), but also working in the industry itself as a female. Segway time. You guys hear about some sh*t going down about female video game developers having to move in fear of their lives at times? There was a Gawker article but all that article seemed to do was bash some people. Can anyone shed some light on that for me and/or point me toward an more informative article about what the hell is going on? I think they were calling it "Gamergate"...
Gawker is literally cancer of the internet.
I'd suggest staying away from sites that spew such an agenda of calling people bad while subsequently yelling vitriol and hate.
Delt for CPM2
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Moss-delt on skype
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6880
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 09:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Somehow missed your first post?
Yeah, what I mean't about the 48 hour beta thing is basically what they did with Destiny and what they're doing with Evolve right now. You really don't get to experience everything that's being offered up in 48 hours to make an informed decision as to whether or not to actually buy the game. That and considering Demos are all but done away with, it's basically "pay for our game or just don't play it ever".
As far as the LAN thing - I agree. Friends tried to get me into some Tungle BS (basically a LAN emulator) and it was more trouble then it was worth. It would have been easier for me to just go to Germany and -actually play via LAN- than to try and set that non-sense up.
LoL really is /b/ on 4chan. You'll never live up to anyone else's expectations, you should never try, and if you ever try to think outside the box get ready for a whole prize package of criticism and hatred. Evolve recently showed me just how much I hate video game communities (here in the last two hours) when a dude was screaming into his ****ing mic for me to drop an orbital on the monster.... in a cave.... When I typed my response he responded: "Kill yourself kid it's 2014 get a mic". I can understand that kind of fervor for a competitive game like Dust 514 when long-term investments are at stake (PC Territories for instance) but a game like Evolve that has absolutely no long-term persistence outside of minor 2% weapon upgrades is just ********.
Another thing that pisses me off is SJWs (social justice warriors). Had one the other day literally proclaiming that white people shouldn't cosplay as a video game character of a different color because they're already, quote: "Under-represented".
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Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
871
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Posted - 2014.11.02 13:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Somehow missed your first post? Yeah, what I mean't about the 48 hour beta thing is basically what they did with Destiny and what they're doing with Evolve right now. You really don't get to experience everything that's being offered up in 48 hours to make an informed decision as to whether or not to actually buy the game. That and considering Demos are all but done away with, it's basically "pay for our game or just don't play it ever". As far as the LAN thing - I agree. Friends tried to get me into some Tungle BS (basically a LAN emulator) and it was more trouble then it was worth. It would have been easier for me to just go to Germany and -actually play via LAN- than to try and set that non-sense up. LoL really is /b/ on 4chan. You'll never live up to anyone else's expectations, you should never try, and if you ever try to think outside the box get ready for a whole prize package of criticism and hatred. Evolve recently showed me just how much I hate video game communities (here in the last two hours) when a dude was screaming into his ****ing mic for me to drop an orbital on the monster.... in a cave.... When I typed my response he responded: "Kill yourself kid it's 2014 get a mic". I can understand that kind of fervor for a competitive game like Dust 514 when long-term investments are at stake (PC Territories for instance) but a game like Evolve that has absolutely no long-term persistence outside of minor 2% weapon upgrades is just ********. Another thing that pisses me off is SJWs (social justice warriors). Had one the other day literally proclaiming that white people shouldn't cosplay as a video game character of a different color because they're already, quote: "Under-represented".
Yeah I don't know what the heck I wrote. I know what I was trying to say in my head, but I look back to my first point and go... "what"?
I think I was trying to refute your point by saying that not all game companies do this. Which you never said. And so, yeah...
Anyways, I agree with your first point all the way. 
If I come up with something else, I come back and post it. Still waking up at the moment.
Off topic: 2 more days. Hype.
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
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Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
871
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Posted - 2014.11.02 13:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Here's a pretty good video explaining the #GamerGate situation.
By the way, thank Atiim for that link. I got the general gist of it but it looks like there's a TON of people that had stuff to say about this (per related videos) and I found a wikipedia article that attempts to explain it.
While I did get some answers, I was left with more questions that I don't think will be answered until this whole thing settles down. Instead of 2 sides of this Gamergate thing, it seems more like everyone has a take on it, and it's not sure if it's a tornado, a fire cyclone, a waterspout, or a combination of all of them.
Really confusing. 
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
5287
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Posted - 2014.11.02 16:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
@ Marketing
That is a problem with business in general. You can see it across a spectrum of industries. Thankfully I know enough to know when marketing is good (has a good message, sells the product without relying on manipulation) vs bad marketing (uses stupid manipulations like Anchoring effect, creating false senses of demand/needing haste, flat out lies).
Mossellia Delt wrote:1) corruption in gaming journalism ie; people against gg
2) people falsely accusing sexism in video games themselves. Yes there are instances of it but its a two way street.
3) people pushing political agendas in video games themselves.
4) lack of vancian spell casting in video games.
RE: 2 I think this is an issue that extends to other forms of entertainment, and not just video games. Movies are really bad about this. Just go on IMDB and look at casts for movies. There are usually a couple good female characters, and then a boatload of male characters. Sexism can be insidious and isn't always as blatant as something like DOA or anything similar in movies.
RE: 3 I would also extend this to theology, which can sometimes be mixed in with the politics. Religion is a very difficult topic to be discussed well in a video game, and I haven't seen done well really. While I like the AC series, I sometimes cringe at the obvious the religious and political messages in the game.
1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
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Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3014
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Posted - 2014.11.03 14:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Most of the above, and:
That World of Warcraft is influencing every game since it was released and deemed a sucess.
Every f*cking game has epic, rare and common loot these days. Even EVE: Legion is going to have it.
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17575
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Posted - 2014.11.03 19:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
1. Over-Hyping for the intentions of grabbing money and leaving a sour taste in player's mouths to force the publisher to find a new franchise to ruin. (Deadspace 3, Destiny, Halo 4)
2. Ruining well established franchise in favor of mainstream foregoing the niche and charm the game once held. (Deadspace 3)
3. Day 1 'DLC' - content already on the disc requiring a 4mb downloaded key to unlock on the day of the launch. (Mass Effect 3)
4. Shipping half assed games on purpose of selling additional parts later as DLC. (Destiney) instead of putting real effort into them and making them feel like real dlcs and shipping a full game at launch (CoD, Borderlands, Skyrim)
5. Digital Store Exclusives (Origin) oh how I loathe origin and how it loathes me; current record 100% of games I have purchased on origin do not work and refunds from those are not worth the monumental effort they're making me hop through)
6. Games that not only doesn't try to explore something new and never tried before, but does not do a wonderful job with current safety zones of design and doesnt make it fun (Destiny, CoD, Battlefield, as opposed to Bayonetta 2, Sunset Overdrive, Mirrors Edge)
7. Hypes the story / epically fails at it (FFXIII, CoD:MW3, WaW, Blops, Blop2, Ghosts,(and possibly advanced warfighter need to play though) Destiney)
8. Games that are boring solo (Borderlands)
9. Games that did well, become cultural icons and staples for how things should get done, the publisher fires the entire studio or the man responsible for that iconism. (Capcom for Megaman and Okami, Destiny for Marty O'Donnel and Scott, EA every devoured studio ever, RIP Westwood)
10. Holding back Next Gen on multiplatform launches to make sure PC master race or one console doesn't overly perform over the other. I rather there be some favoritism in this aspect because its killing creativity and aesthetics of game (nearly 100% of all multiplatform games launched this year that launched on xbone, x360, ps3, ps4, and pc)
11. A marketing team that does whatever it wants despite rabid fans telling them to stahp (Dust 514, Aliens Colonial Marines)
I also second my hatred the early access demos thinly disguised as a beta.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
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Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
1827
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Posted - 2014.11.03 20:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
8. Games that are boring solo (Borderlands)
I solo'd two characters til max level then did terramorphus solo. Didn't find it boring.
Delt for CPM2
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17579
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Posted - 2014.11.03 20:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mossellia Delt wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
8. Games that are boring solo (Borderlands)
I solo'd two characters til max level then did terramorphus solo. Didn't find it boring.
Well my mistake was playing it with friends at first.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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Spademan
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4363
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Posted - 2014.11.04 00:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Games that don't live up to their masterfully crafted advertising campaigns. (Dead island, those guys need a job with a better studio. They're marketing masterminds.)
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6895
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 01:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Games that don't live up to their masterfully crafted advertising campaigns. (Dead island, those guys need a job with a better studio. They're marketing masterminds.)
They probably went to work for Activision/Bungie x3
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