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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
236
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Posted - 2014.10.28 03:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's a general consensus that Scouts are "OP" because they "do too much"- they're too easily versatile, rather.
Aside from Passive Scans while cloaked (soon to be changed?) and throwing REs, a major complaint I've seen is running Scouts as psuedo-Assaults.
My perception is that Scouts should mainly be a Support role (be it through equipment or modules), but should not be completely void of combat capabilities (due to the nature of this shooter). I think Scouts should have the ability to become psuedo-Assaults, but at a cost.
After running through solutions and numbers in my head for part of the day, the possibility of each Scout losing a (strong) slot came to mind.
The changes would result in the Prototype tier looking like so:
- Gal 2H/4L -> 2H/3L
- Cal 4H/2L -> 3H/2L
- Am 2H/4L -> 2H/3L
- Min 3H/3L -> 3H/2L -or- 2H/3L
Many of you will probably dislike me or write this off immediately, but bear with me if you can.
Overall, this wouldn't stop Scouts from tanking and having 700+ hp, but this would take away an extra slot that could be used as an Ewar buffer (ie: low slot to fit a dampener, high slot to fit precision). In addition, the possible changes to Native armor reps will most likely be more incentive to run combat Scouts, despite one being a slight reduction to the Gal Scout reps. The same native armor reps can be used to provide incentive to be an Ewar scout.
This also wouldn't largely affect Gallente, Caldari, or Amarr from fitting into their intended Ewar roles: Gallente would still have the lowest possible profile, Caldari would have the largest possible scan radius, and Amarr would have the lowest possible scan precision. All of these suits would still be able to avoid the Gal Focused scanner through damps or damps + cloak. Unfortunately, one downside is there would be less slot variety.
As you can probably tell, the problems lies with the Minmatar Scout. Were the Minmatar to adopt the 2H/3L layout, there would be three Scouts with the same slot layout. However, in the other layout, the Minmatar won't be able to dodge the Gal Logi scanner with damps + cloak, nor the Amarr Scout with minimum precision, nor be the uncontested best hacker. I have yet to find a way without arbitrarily changing a number or mechanic to do so.
An alternative layout(s) to fix the previously state problems:
- Gal 2H/4L -> 1H/4L
- Cal 4H/2L -> 3H/2L
- Am 2H/4L -> 2H/3L
- Min 3H/3L -> 3H/2L
With both layouts (unless three Scouts would share the same slot layout case), the Minmatar hacking bonus would have to augmented for the Min Scout to retain its status as prime hacker. I have looked at sprint speed and stamina too much, but I think they'll remain roughly the same, just with a lower limit.
Regardless, I wanted to see what people thought. This thought is pretty far-fetched and bound to be unpopular, but maybe this will inspire someone else to make a better idea/actual solution.
P.S. My primary role is a Gallente Scout. I may/may not post my spreadsheet with my calculations. I'll post it by request, but it won't be finished (and may not be; I'll be fairly occupied throughout the week).
daddy Rattati lovin' his stati's!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2686
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Posted - 2014.10.28 03:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
The "general consensus" has been reached by 3 players and their 25 alts, and all the sheep in GD who follow them.
Bad idea is bad. Scouts are balanced, but shared passives need to be removed.
If you want a support role, spec Logi. Otherwise, you are a slayer.
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1191
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Posted - 2014.10.28 04:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
There is only 1 slot that needs to be removed.
An equipment slot,down to 1.
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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Skullmizer Vulcansu
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2014.10.28 04:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
I wouldn't mind this so much, It's just taking away one of the slots that was added since 1.8. You probably also need to reduce the CPU and PG slightly of each suit.
This game makes me suicidal.
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Vicious Minotaur
1274
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Posted - 2014.10.28 04:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yuck. That means that my Basic scouts (which I run 90% of the time) are nerfed, unless you want to completely alter/screw up tier progression.
Anyway, who the hell complains about basic suits? They already can't fit large tanks, ganks, or even cloak without similarly large sacrifices. I sacrifice my grenade and one equip slot just to fit a bit (~300 extra eHP) of tank, which, mind you, can be wiped out in miliseconds. I don't have to sacrifice a damn thing to fit upwards of 300 extra eHP on my basic assault suits or my sentinel.
Maybe I could get down with your proposal if all suits of a racial class had the same slots across all teirs, and the only limiting factor was CPU/PG. But, that is not (yet?) the case.
I am a minotaur.
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TheEnd762
Sver true blood
Public.Disorder.
645
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Posted - 2014.10.28 06:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
No removing equipment slots. Scouts need cloak+other. Take a high or low slot here and there, but leave equipment slots alone. |
Vesperz
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
128
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Posted - 2014.10.28 13:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
My general understanding was that Rattati was not touching scouts anymore on account of they finally had reached a sense of balance to them. Now if I could find that thread...
"Live by honor, kill by stealth."
Minmatar scout since the beginning.
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Atiim
13193
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Posted - 2014.10.28 14:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vesperz wrote:My general understanding was that Rattati was not touching scouts anymore on account of they finally had reached a sense of balance to them. Now if I could find that thread...
He said that he would see how things look after the nerf to Cloak Fields.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4743
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Posted - 2014.10.28 14:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
I would prefer to do something to counter Brick tanking Scouts before considering drastic actions such as removing slots. I am fine with a Scout getting up close to 600 HP with Ferosteel Plate, but they should be slowed to the speed of a medium frame suit if they are stacking Armour Plate for closer to 800 HP.
If Logi can stack significantly more health than a Scout, that makes them distinct in the logistical role.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Crimson ShieId
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1183
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Posted - 2014.10.28 15:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yea, it wouldn't stop players from tanking 700eHP... but it would stop me from stacking three kincats on my Min scout and running at the maximum possible speed... so...
NO.
Toss an equipment slot, nerf the cloak into oblivion, but don't you dare touch my speed fit!
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2178
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Posted - 2014.10.28 15:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:Yea, it wouldn't stop players from tanking 700eHP... but it would stop me from stacking three kincats on my Min scout and running at the maximum possible speed... so... NO.Toss an equipment slot, nerf the cloak into oblivion, but don't you dare touch my speed fit!
True that. I would be very angry to see scouts lose the few things that have always been true about scouts in this game. Speed and stealth.
Wait and see how 1.9 changes things.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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DDx77
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.10.28 15:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think scouts could lose a slot but I also don't think it would change much
If anything it would make them less versatile and might make each scout only have one role - which would be counter-intuitive to the nature of Dust (despite each suits bonus', you can run them different ways)
My issue with scouts is mainly the way they are used as assaults and out-assault the real assault suits
When I run my scout this way I notice I am much quicker, just as lethal and for some reason my health regen is on turbo mode
Why is health regen on "technically" a recon suit miles better than the true assault suits?
Overall I think the scout suit is almost perfect the way it is.
I would like to see the health regen speed swapped with the assault suit
I think the scanner should not show you the direction an enemy is facing
And I think assault strafe speed should be increased.
In the early development of this game you will read that the assault rifle was waaaaay OP
The main remedy for this was improving the other rifles so they could compete with it.
They did not nerf the assault rifle
I think Improving the Scout should be approached the same way.
Sorry for going off topic a bit |
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