DUST Search - Disscuss: scouts do to much or every thing els dose to little?

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:

Forget about snipers for a sec. If Scouts were restricted to 2 sidearm slots, how do you think it would affect Scouts' balance, Maken? Do you think they'd still be slayers? Do you think Scout suits would still make up 50% of all suits bought? What about PC, do you think we'd actually get matches where it isn't aprox 90% Scout spam. Scouts shouldn't have the ability to slay as well as assaults or heavys, and limiting them to 2 sidearm slots would be the best way to stop them without breaking them.

I don't like the idea of making bonuses affect modules, because that would limit the free-form nature of making fittings, which I thought was supposed to be a big part of Dust's 'class system'. You wanna put kincats on your Sentinel? Sure, go ahead! Damage mods on a Logi? If that's what you want! Armour on a Scout? Be my guest.

I use kincats on my Min Scouts, but you're saying that I should be penalised for it because I'm not playing within my suit's 'predefined' roles.

Don't mind me, but I can't help but say that:

limit scouts to sidearms? What ever happened not limiting the free-form nature of making fittings?

Tying bonuses to mods and equipables doesn't disallow you from fitting what you want. Removing the light weapon slot, however, does just that.


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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9910	Posted - 2014.10.28 01:05:00 - [1] - Quote The only recommendation I can think of without nerfing the scouts to the ground is to turn the passive bonuses like scan precision/profiling and range amplification into efficacy bonuses (same with stamina bonuses). This way, scouts won't be able to tank like assaults without sacrificing much of their special bonuses. Under these changes... A Cal scout will not be able to see far if all they got fitted on the low slots are armor plates. A Gal scout will not be able to see clearly if all they got fitted on the high slots are damage mods. A Min scout will not be able to profile dampen effectively if all it has on its low slots are kin cats. An Amarr scout will not be able to have as much endurance if all it has on its low slots are plates and profile dampeners plus the lack of seeing clearly if they have high slots filled with shield extenders or damage mods. Of course, there are alternatives to this. Some people suggested that we at least buff the assaults and logis to compensate which another thing I support. Restricting the scout to 1 light slot so that the scout has to make a choice between bringing a light weapon and a sidearm is another option as well, however I consider that to be an option of last resort in case the other options won't work. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9920	Posted - 2014.10.28 03:41:00 - [2] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Scouts do too much, restrict them to 2 sidearm slots. That is one option I will NOT support. This will effectively kill off sniper scouts. And since CCP is clearly against respecs, this will mean a TON of scouts being pissed off to the point of rage quitting because this means they are now being forced into speccing to a weapon class in which they have no intention of speccing into in the first place in addition to being forced into a role -- in this case, CQC -- they have no interest in. If there is ANY class of suit out there that would likely ever have a sidearm-only configuration, that would likely be the Pilot suits which we don't have. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9920	Posted - 2014.10.28 04:05:00 - [3] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Scouts do too much, restrict them to 2 sidearm slots. That is one option I will NOT support. This will effectively kill off sniper scouts. And since CCP is clearly against respecs, this will mean a TON of scouts being pissed off to the point of rage quitting because this means they are now being forced into speccing to a weapon class in which they have no intention of speccing into in the first place in addition to being forced into a role -- in this case, CQC -- they have no interest in. If there is ANY class of suit out there that would likely ever have a sidearm-only configuration, that would likely be the Pilot suits which we don't have. But you've only said you wouldn't support it because it would **** people off. What do you think of it from a balancing standpoint? IMO, restricting Scouts to 2 sidearm slots would be the perfect way to stop them being slayers and balance them without breaking them. It's not just the fact that they get pissed off. It's also the fact that sniping is also a role generally associated with scouts. Scouts are not known only for carrying sidearms and using EWAR. It's also about being an effective sniper. Scout suits offer snipers the mobility they need to get to key points on a map while also staying on the move to avoid counter sniping. If you take away that advantage, snipers will likely be forced to become commandos and use that as a sniping platform instead. But that means limited mobility and thus is likely to drive snipers into being more and more like the redline scrubs because they can't get into position fast enough and will likely stick to the redline. Assault suits might be another alternative, but with limited mobility still and lack of EWAR to counter scouts, the only best option is to tank up and that is where the commando comes in. The vast majority of snipers that I have killed are a mix of either scouts or commandos. Very rarely do I ever see a logi or assault sniping. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9920	Posted - 2014.10.28 04:14:00 - [4] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Scouts do too much, restrict them to 2 sidearm slots. That is one option I will NOT support. This will effectively kill off sniper scouts. And since CCP is clearly against respecs, this will mean a TON of scouts being pissed off to the point of rage quitting because this means they are now being forced into speccing to a weapon class in which they have no intention of speccing into in the first place in addition to being forced into a role -- in this case, CQC -- they have no interest in. If there is ANY class of suit out there that would likely ever have a sidearm-only configuration, that would likely be the Pilot suits which we don't have. Snipers don't even have a role anyway atm. I think that if you want to use a light weapon, you should have to use at least a medium frame. Regardless, I don't think CCP will accept this. Such an idea is too much of a knee-jerk reaction. The root of the problem -- the problem being that scouts are better at being assaults than assaults -- is that scouts have a massive EWAR advantage even without the EWAR mods fitted. Think about it. A Min scout can hack faster than anyone on the field using only the passive bonus even though the Min scout has nothing but kin cats on the lows. The Amarr and Gal scouts can see everyone even though they don't have any precision mods fitted. The Cal scout can see farther than anyone even without the range amp mods. The root of the problem is clear. It is NOT the fact that scouts can fit a light weapon. It's the application of the bonuses. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9921	Posted - 2014.10.28 04:52:00 - [5] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Forget about snipers for a sec. If Scouts were restricted to 2 sidearm slots, how do you think it would affect Scouts' balance, Maken? Do you think they'd still be slayers? Do you think Scout suits would still make up 50% of all suits bought? What about PC, do you think we'd actually get matches where it isn't aprox 90% Scout spam. Scouts shouldn't have the ability to slay as well as assaults or heavys, and limiting them to 2 sidearm slots would be the best way to stop them without breaking them. I don't like the idea of making bonuses affect modules, because that would limit the free-form nature of making fittings, which I thought was supposed to be a big part of Dust's 'class system'. You wanna put kincats on your Sentinel? Sure, go ahead! Damage mods on a Logi? If that's what you want! Armour on a Scout? Be my guest. I use kincats on my Min Scouts, but you're saying that I should be penalised for it because I'm not playing within my suit's 'predefined' roles. Don't mind me, but I can't help but say that: limit scouts to sidearms? What ever happened not limiting the free-form nature of making fittings? Tying bonuses to mods and equipables doesn't disallow you from fitting what you want. Removing the light weapon slot, however, does just that. ^^ This. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.