DUST Search - Is team balancing still being adjusted?

Atiim wrote:

The problem with team balancing is that it's... well, team balancing.

Team Balancing takes 32 players randomly and then moves their position to either Team A or Team B based on their Mu score. However, this is very flawed in the sense that if Team A has a squad and Team B doesn't, Team A will stomp all over Team B unless there's other players in the pool of 25 remaining slots who are good enough to stand up against the squad in Team A.

That is why despite the team balancing, most players are still able to stop through Public Contracts with ease if they have a squad of 3-6. Granted, it's not as bad as it was before, but I still find myself actively avoiding squads with my corpmates just so I can enjoy a match w/o the victor being decided 5min in.

On the other hand, matchmaking takes 32 players based on their Mu score. This means that even if players aren't in a squad, they'll only be placed with and against players relatively equal to their skill level. I honestly hope that Uprising 1.9 implements actual matchmaking, as it will massively improve the player experience, both new and old.

Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

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Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4156	Posted - 2014.10.27 12:10:00 - [1] - Quote Yesterday I managed to convince a corpmate to play Dust for the first time since 1.7. We spent some of his unallocated SP on a Gallente assault and plasma rifles, formed a squad with a third corpmate, then jumped into the dom/skirm queue. One victory and three defeats later, he has to go and I'm not 100% certain he will be playing again until 1.9. Our opposition was pretty harsh, and while my skin is pretty thick to protostomping at this point, he was expecting to be paired with players of approximate skill level. My K/D and W/L are not impressive and neither are his. Are we still submitting EoM screenshots to [email protected] or has it been tweaked to its fullest extent? Is the "squad mu multiplier" that high? I may encourage him to solo queue until further notice, but I hate excluding him from corp activities just because of protostomping. My advice to you, playa...
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1389	Posted - 2014.10.27 12:27:00 - [2] - Quote I have seen teams where we had 3 in squad, with 13 NPC-corps mercs and being put against 2 Corp squads, with 14 of the enemy team being in Player-corps ... I know I'm awesome but I can't fight those odds Rattati I'd really like to see some encouragement for new mercs to join a training corp like - Immortal Guides - DUST University - or any others dedicating time to teaching new mercs That should be on the welcoming screen, a list of the New-Player friendly merc corps Or we could do nothing and watch them get recruited by randoms in Local... Which is crazy how many different and random corps grab guys from there, and not for the better. Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4157	Posted - 2014.10.27 13:30:00 - [3] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: I'd really like to see some encouragement for new mercs to join a training corp like - Immortal Guides - DUST University - or any others dedicating time to teaching new mercs. That should be on the welcoming screen, a list of the New-Player friendly merc corps Thing is, he isn't exactly a rookie. He played consistently for a long time, then quit for a while. He knows how to fit a dropsuit, use comms, follow squad orders, etc. My advice to you, playa...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4726	Posted - 2014.10.27 15:27:00 - [4] - Quote I find that usually, you have a similar mix of good and bad payers on both teams. In Ambush this means that very close matches are quite frequent. In Skirmish and Domination there are factors which can lead to a lopsided match even when the teams are even in skill, such as one team not putting down Uplinks, or a Scout dedicating themselves to destroying the other teamGÇÖs Uplinks. Once one team gets momentum it can quickly become a stomp. At one point over the weekend my team got completely rolled by the other team in a Domination match, and then in the next Domination match the teams came out almost identical to the previous match and yet we rolled them the second time. There will be times when there is one really highly rated squad, and the rest of the 32 people are at a much lower skill level so the match maker canGÇÖt balance them. That is when you have Ambush matches go 47/0. But they are not too common. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Atiim 13182	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:48:00 - [5] - Quote The problem with team balancing is that it's... well, team balancing. Team Balancing takes 32 players randomly and then moves their position to either Team A or Team B based on their Mu score. However, this is very flawed in the sense that if Team A has a squad and Team B doesn't, Team A will stomp all over Team B unless there's other players in the pool of 25 remaining slots who are good enough to stand up against the squad in Team A. That is why despite the team balancing, most players are still able to stop through Public Contracts with ease if they have a squad of 3-6. Granted, it's not as bad as it was before, but I still find myself actively avoiding squads with my corpmates just so I can enjoy a match w/o the victor being decided 5min in. On the other hand, matchmaking takes 32 players based on their Mu score. This means that even if players aren't in a squad, they'll only be placed with and against players relatively equal to their skill level. I honestly hope that Uprising 1.9 implements actual matchmaking, as it will massively improve the player experience, both new and old. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Duke Noobiam Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 226	Posted - 2014.10.27 16:53:00 - [6] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Yesterday I managed to convince a corpmate to play Dust for the first time since 1.7. We spent some of his unallocated SP on a Gallente assault and plasma rifles, formed a squad with a third corpmate, then jumped into the dom/skirm queue. One victory and three defeats later, he has to go and I'm not 100% certain he will be playing again until 1.9. Our opposition was pretty harsh, and while my skin is pretty thick to protostomping at this point, he was expecting to be paired with players of approximate skill level. My K/D and W/L are not impressive and neither are his. Are we still submitting EoM screenshots to [email protected] or has it been tweaked to its fullest extent? Is the "squad mu multiplier" that high? I may encourage him to solo queue until further notice, but I hate excluding him from corp activities just because of protostomping. From what I have experienced since the team balancing changes the most balanced game mode is now Ambush. Domination and Skirmish are better than before, but not nearly as balanced as Ambush. I'm not sure if this is related to how Mu is calculated , or if it is due to more "fuzzy" reasons. Maybe a different value for the squad multiplier is needed in the objective based game modes as team play and coordination seem to be more important in those modes. I've also noticed from experience that vehicles have the greatest impact in Domination matches, and the least impact in Ambush OMS. How do you kill that which has no life?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1842	Posted - 2014.10.27 17:00:00 - [7] - Quote A few points... First, a sample size of 4 is too small to make any conclusions. Second, if you get stomped by a group of players on the other side for a few matches, you are sometimes better off waiting a bit before requeuing back in such that you don't go up against them again. I suspect if you ran a few more rounds, you would see more wins. Either that, or go a full squad of 6 and just try and dominate your competition, because in a squad of 3 it's hard to project your force at more than a single point at a time (i.e. you can't really tip the scales in your favor). Hope this helps...Leadfoot p.s. Overall, we've found team balancing (i.e. which side of a battle gets a particular player/squad) leading to many closer battles. However, I'd really like to see some matchmaking (i.e. which match a particular player/squad goes into) to make matches even more even.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4176	Posted - 2014.10.27 17:05:00 - [8] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: A few points... First, a sample size of 4 is too small to make any conclusions. Second, if you get stomped by a group of players on the other side for a few matches, you are sometimes better off waiting a bit before requeuing back in such that you don't go up against them again. I didn't think our four matches going the way they did are indication that team balancing is broken at all. I am just asking if feedback is still being accepted; I feel as if one of those matches in particular was incredibly harsh... ... but now that I think about it, I believe we joined about 5 minutes into the match... which means we bypassed the team balancing entirely I am not a clever man. My advice to you, playa...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4734	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:05:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: The problem with team balancing is that it's... well, team balancing. Team Balancing takes 32 players randomly and then moves their position to either Team A or Team B based on their Mu score. However, this is very flawed in the sense that if Team A has a squad and Team B doesn't, Team A will stomp all over Team B unless there's other players in the pool of 25 remaining slots who are good enough to stand up against the squad in Team A. That is why despite the team balancing, most players are still able to stop through Public Contracts with ease if they have a squad of 3-6. Granted, it's not as bad as it was before, but I still find myself actively avoiding squads with my corpmates just so I can enjoy a match w/o the victor being decided 5min in. On the other hand, matchmaking takes 32 players based on their Mu score. This means that even if players aren't in a squad, they'll only be placed with and against players relatively equal to their skill level. I honestly hope that Uprising 1.9 implements actual matchmaking, as it will massively improve the player experience, both new and old. The old system was actual Match Making. We just did not have a large enough player base to make it work without really long que times. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1766	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:10:00 - [10] - Quote I'd like to know what my mu score is. I solo a lot and get stuck with 15 guys in NPC corps averaging under 500 WP's vs a full squad averaging 2000 wp's each ... Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4180	Posted - 2014.10.27 18:11:00 - [11] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: I'd like to know what my mu score is. I solo a lot and get stuck with 15 guys in NPC corps averaging under 500 WP's vs a full squad averaging 2000 wp's each ... My guess is pretty high. When I solo I have that happen sometimes and I don't even boast a 1.00 W/L. My advice to you, playa...
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1048	Posted - 2014.10.27 21:24:00 - [12] - Quote I dont know the exact math behind MU but I can tell you that using W/L ratio in any form is a broken mechanic. The more matchmaking works the more people will become grouped in certain ranges of W/L. These groups would pretty much be decided by how often you squad up. Once everyone has fallen into these certain groups winning one match will essentially put you a fraction of a percent higher leaving you in with a bunch of randoms for several matches until it has returned to within the normal range. This problem only becomes multiplied through the fact that it is now throwing the rest of the numbers out of balance. I feel like at this point we would be better off if people were just placed based on SP with no match being allowed to have a squad larger than the other. EG two squads of 4 are searching, they are placed on opposite sides and their total SP calculated randoms are then used to fill the rest and placed in a way to give both sides the closest amount of total SP as possible. It is a bad solution that does not account for squads properly at all but it is better than the current system which ensures everyone loses 2 out of every 3 matches. I think the biggest problem people have had for all of the history of Dust 514 is Scotty essentially deciding matches before the match even begins, which has not only continued but grown worse in the new matchmaker.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5070	Posted - 2014.10.27 22:58:00 - [13] - Quote I sent one yesterday, and got a TY from Rattati, so they must still be looking at them. It was 2 full squads of 2 different corps playing PC style tactics in Pubs against a full team of randoms. I personally wonder if they are taking into account corps when looking at squads vs squads of randoms that people find in squad finder or a chat room. It is a HUGE difference when you are talking about a squad of people that have been playing together and know each other well vs a squad of people that pull together just hoping for an OB. No more Sprint Glitch? This party is going to be off the hook!
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 585	Posted - 2014.10.27 23:01:00 - [14] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: I'd really like to see some encouragement for new mercs to join a training corp like - Immortal Guides - DUST University - or any others dedicating time to teaching new mercs That should be on the welcoming screen, a list of the New-Player friendly merc corps I can think of another corp for them!.. Wait no... Quiet time. >___> But I'm still yet to see any form of "balance" in a good sense, I get the same amount of crapfests and rare "good" battles as before... But I am seeing a lot more 5 vs 10 matches and suchlike.


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