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Making assaults PC viable (maybe)

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Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2870	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:15:00 - [1] - Quote Well, here I am with another insanely long rant about something. So let's do this. Before we start, I'd like to say I may have taken or modified this idea from somebody else, I can't honestly remember. Anyway, the current problems with assaults are as follows: 1) Cal and Gal assault bonuses are useless, but this is not the primary solution I have to making assaults needed in competitive settings. (but seriously CCP, give them some love) 2) The main duty of an assault is to slay. While it may outclass most other types of dropsuits in this respect, the fact is that the other suits can do that, and do other things like Ewar, point defense, use of equipment, flanking, faster hacks, etc. SOLUTION!!!! : In order to make the assaults viable, and avoiding the COD mentality that will come with the assaults if this goes through, is this proposal. THE OVERDRIVE! The idea for the overdrive is to offer the wearer a damage boost to his weapon. But in order to keep the COD mentality off this suit, I propose an effective radius where other people on the team will also receive the bonus, but at a lesser rate. And any time a kill is made by someone inside the field, the assault using it will receive an overdrive kill assist worth about 35 points, giving them a "Hooray, I'm useful!" feeling. I have also made specs for the different types of overdrives that will benefit the assaults in their given situations, along with the company names representing the races that will benefit most from this. First one on deck: Ishukone overdrive: Damage bonus to wearer: 15% Damage bonus inside field: 10% Active duration: 30 seconds Field radius: 35 meters Recharge time: 40 seconds This is your standard overdrive, it turns on and helps you force a push with your team and sack a point. Carthum Tactical Overdrive: Damage bonus to wearer: 10% Damage bonus inside field: 10% Active duration: 40 seconds Recharge time: 40 seconds Field radius: 45 meters This overdrive is good for a long range battle, which is where the Amarr excel usually. The damage bonus is less because Amarricans usually have a heat issue which we trade for high damage. Creodron Breach Overdrive: Damage bonus to wearer: 25% Active duration: 8 seconds Recharge time: 35 seconds field radius: none This is the only overdrive type which allows a singular use for the user. It's main purpose is to take out one or two guys and take them out quickly. Freedom Assault Overdrive: Damage bonus to wearer: 18% Damage bonus inside field: 15% Speed bonus inside field: 10% Active duration: 20 seconds Recharge time: 45 seconds Field radius: 15 meters This is the only overdrive that offers a speed bonus to users inside the field. It's specifically designed for CQC assaults that need to, well, assault. This overdrive is perfect for when you have to flank a large group of enemies and you only have one or two people available to do it. (if this were to be implemented, you'd have to make the assault bonus similar to the scout bonus, making it to where only they can use it effectively) That is pretty much the only idea I have to make assaults an important part of PC without nerfing all the other suits into the ground. If you have any better ideas, don't be afraid to share. Sharing is caring, after all . FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
Atiim 12960	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:28:00 - [2] - Quote DPS is the role of the Commando, and as such Assaults (nor any other class) should receive bonuses to anything that would increase a weapon's DPS. My (or should I say Sgt. Kirk's) solution to making Assaults "PC Viable" is by making slaying more rewarding than it currently is, something that is highly necessary. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2870	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:37:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: DPS is the role of the Commando, and as such Assaults (nor any other class) should receive bonuses to anything that would increase a weapon's DPS. My (or should I say Sgt. Kirk's) solution to making Assaults "PC Viable" is by making slaying more rewarding than it currently is, something that is highly necessary. Therein lies the problem. Assaults have no definitive role, and any bonus to slaying will more than likely transfer over to the other types of dropsuits, unless a piece of equipment is involved. (case in point, my savior bonus idea) I'm also against the fact that commandos got the damage bonus, should've been something else in my opinion. But this isn't the main point of my proposal. Assaults are meant to slay, what better way to slay than increased damage? And what better way to keep the "for the team" mentality than to transfer some of your slaying bonuses to your team? FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
hfderrtgvcd 802	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:37:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: DPS is the role of the Commando, and as such Assaults (nor any other class) should receive bonuses to anything that would increase a weapon's DPS. My (or should I say Sgt. Kirk's) solution to making Assaults "PC Viable" is by making slaying more rewarding than it currently is, something that is highly necessary. what do wp awards have to do with a suit being used in pc? Your idea looks decent although I fear it could be very difficult to balance and would have a lot of unintended consequences. For example, snipers and AVers would quickly switch to assault and logis would be replaced with assaults with rep tools. Also not sure if this is possible without a client side patch. A simpler solution is giving better shield regen and delay stats for all assaults and giving 2 hp/s innate armor repair. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2870	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:40:00 - [5] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Atiim wrote: DPS is the role of the Commando, and as such Assaults (nor any other class) should receive bonuses to anything that would increase a weapon's DPS. My (or should I say Sgt. Kirk's) solution to making Assaults "PC Viable" is by making slaying more rewarding than it currently is, something that is highly necessary. what do wp awards have to do with a suit being used in pc? Your idea looks decent although I fear it could be very difficult to balance and would have a lot of unintended consequences. For example, snipers and AVers would quickly switch to assault and logis would be replaced with assaults with rep tools. Also not sure if this is possible without a client side patch. A simpler solution is giving better shield regen and delay stats for all assaults and giving 2 hp/s innate armor repair. I agree, it may start off rocky, and may be a little more than I bargained for. But again, assaults problem is that they're not useful. I also think you may have misunderstood what I said. I didn't say we should give assaults an extra equipment like the scout, I think they should have to choose between equipment, much like the scouts in the old day. FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
hfderrtgvcd 802	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:43:00 - [6] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Atiim wrote: DPS is the role of the Commando, and as such Assaults (nor any other class) should receive bonuses to anything that would increase a weapon's DPS. My (or should I say Sgt. Kirk's) solution to making Assaults "PC Viable" is by making slaying more rewarding than it currently is, something that is highly necessary. what do wp awards have to do with a suit being used in pc? Your idea looks decent although I fear it could be very difficult to balance and would have a lot of unintended consequences. For example, snipers and AVers would quickly switch to assault and logis would be replaced with assaults with rep tools. Also not sure if this is possible without a client side patch. A simpler solution is giving better shield regen and delay stats for all assaults and giving 2 hp/s innate armor repair. I agree, it may start off rocky, and may be a little more than I bargained for. But again, assaults problem is that they're not useful. I also think you may have misunderstood what I said. I didn't say we should give assaults an extra equipment like the scout, I think they should have to choose between equipment, much like the scouts in the old day. my mistake, for some reason I thought it was a module. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 418	Posted - 2014.10.16 01:03:00 - [7] - Quote OP's corptag nullifies any argument he makes. And no i dont even need to read the post to figure out some DPS boosting nonesense. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
hfderrtgvcd 811	Posted - 2014.10.16 01:06:00 - [8] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: OP's corptag nullifies any argument he makes. And no i dont even need to read the post to figure out some DPS boosting nonesense. What does someone's corporation have to do with their suggestions? You must be really really butthurt You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2873	Posted - 2014.10.16 02:07:00 - [9] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: OP's corptag nullifies any argument he makes. And no i dont even need to read the post to figure out some DPS boosting nonesense. What does someone's corporation have to do with their suggestions? You must be really really butthurt No, he's got a point. FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 3798	Posted - 2014.10.16 03:22:00 - [10] - Quote I agree with you D but this is dust, where people lack common sense and don't want things to be fair they want their OP fotm. Sorry bud but no one wants assaults to be useful, all the assault players quit. We've been trying for a year now but I wish you luck. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 428	Posted - 2014.10.16 03:45:00 - [11] - Quote the gallente assault clealeray has a usless bonus wich makes its ar/shotgun/ion pistol extremely deadly hipfire weapons. which is capable of killing mr.lol socut quicker than he can with a boltpistol. befor speaking for gallente or any other assault suit HAVE experience at palying the suit/role for say......since the racial assaults were released. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2879	Posted - 2014.10.16 03:52:00 - [12] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: the gallente assault clealeray has a usless bonus wich makes its ar/shotgun/ion pistol extremely deadly hipfire weapons. which is capable of killing mr.lol socut quicker than he can with a boltpistol. befor speaking for gallente or any other assault suit HAVE experience at palying the suit/role for say......since the racial assaults were released. uhhhhhhhhhh... Let me phone Sgt Kirk right quick to school you on this, I got my info from him. FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7982	Posted - 2014.10.16 04:00:00 - [13] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: the gallente assault clealeray has a usless bonus wich makes its ar/shotgun/ion pistol extremely deadly hipfire weapons. which is capable of killing mr.lol socut quicker than he can with a boltpistol. befor speaking for gallente or any other assault suit HAVE experience at palying the suit/role for say......since the racial assaults were released. The bonus is complete **** and is not in anyway useful compared to the bonuses of the Amarr and Minmatar suits. The Bonus is barely noticeable and certainly does not help like you say it does with the weapons besides making the Shotgun more like a slug round and harder to hit in CQC with the already existing hit detection issues of the shotgun. Gallente rifles in general have the best hipfire and dispersion in the game. Lastly this bonus has nothing to do with killing scouts quickly, no clue where you got that from, it has to do with the RoF of the weapon since Scouts naturally avoid bullets the best way to kill them is to throw so many bullets at them they can't dodge them all, which is why High RoF weapons work better against scouts. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3363	Posted - 2014.10.16 05:13:00 - [14] - Quote Give the commandos a bonus to range or passive scanning, then give the assault +2% to RoF per level. Tanker/Logi/Assault
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 7	Posted - 2014.10.16 09:50:00 - [15] - Quote For the OP... Can you tell me what "superpower" the other suits have? Not trying to be an ass here. That's a legit question. The idea of am "overdrive" ability is cool and all but the other suits would be raging over this... I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12621	Posted - 2014.10.16 10:24:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: DPS is the role of the Commando, and as such Assaults (nor any other class) should receive bonuses to anything that would increase a weapon's DPS. My (or should I say Sgt. Kirk's) solution to making Assaults "PC Viable" is by making slaying more rewarding than it currently is, something that is highly necessary. Commandos are SUPPOSED to be suppression fighters. CCP said it themselves. Soo.... Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game RUST415 1346	Posted - 2014.10.16 10:39:00 - [17] - Quote I still like my Caldari reload bonus!!! damn all of you haters ... The Ck.0 would be awesome if max tank was higher than 700shield (considering Ak.0/Gk.0 1000armour) To get 700 shield on Cal Assault I have to stack complex shields wrecking my fitting space ... To have a high shield tank I have to remove the Rail Rifle... damn you CCP shakesfist The bonuses could be edited for Gal certainly as long as it does not affect dps I am fine with it.. Too many mercs want to be 'buffed' and from current battles the Gallente Rifles are doing quite well Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Moochie Cricket Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 768	Posted - 2014.10.16 10:52:00 - [18] - Quote Make assaults base speed on part with scouts while nerfing the crap out of stamina and stamina regen. GLORY TO THE STATE
Atiim 12976	Posted - 2014.10.16 11:04:00 - [19] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Commandos are SUPPOSED to be suppression fighters. CCP said it themselves. Soo.... There's no so about it, the Commando's bonus increases their weapon damage, and as such giving another role/class a bonus which increases weapon damage would cause that role to out-perform Commandos. There are many ways to make Assaults viable, making them inferior to Assaults is not one of them. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 7	Posted - 2014.10.16 11:25:00 - [20] - Quote Someone please correct me if I'm wrong and I know there are people out there who will. Logistics = medic Scout = black ops Assault = dps Sentinel = dps Commando = suppression I can't say that I don't see a viable role for any of the suits. I take that back. The basics suits and the malicious suits are kind of crap... I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..

Atiim 12981	Posted - 2014.10.16 11:28:00 - [21] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: Someone please correct me if I'm wrong and I know there are people out there who will. Logistics = medic Scout = black ops Assault = dps Sentinel = dps Commando = suppression I can't say that I don't see a viable role for any of the suits. I take that back. The basics suits and the malicious suits are kind of crap... CCP hasn't said that the Assaults are for DPS, just that they're for Slaying. Given their bonuses however, one can infer that their advantage of slaying comes from the ability to engage targets for longer periods of time. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Captain Caldari Prime Exiled Veteran Elite 18	Posted - 2014.10.16 14:11:00 - [22] - Quote cant commandos engage longer with 2 light weapons over a light and a sidearm commandos are slow maybe the bonus should be to range over dps and assaults should get the dps bonus Hatoraide: Let me spray some in ya
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3654	Posted - 2014.10.16 14:14:00 - [23] - Quote Captain Caldari Prime wrote: commandos are slow maybe the bonus should be to range over dps and assaults should get the dps bonus Caldari commando. Sniper rifle. Back to square one on the sniper adjustments. Honestly if the sniper riflr were excluded from the range bonus that would solve the problem entirely.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4956	Posted - 2014.10.16 14:37:00 - [24] - Quote To me the assault suit being viable is directly tied to an ewar nerf to scouts. You'd have to start there. Level 4 Forum Warrior Help Me Reach Level 5
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 177	Posted - 2014.10.16 18:28:00 - [25] - Quote Scouts are insanely fast, near invisible while you can't hide from them, and at times can get as much armor as an ADV Gallente Assault. Commandos are good AV and loaded with fire power and can deal with near every situation. Sentinels are freaking gods of point defense without even trying with an Advanced HMG I could slaughter a small army and take a burst from a Blaster turret like a champion. Logis are beyond influential and a treasure if you get a good one. Assaults bonuses can all be skilled into (except maybe Amarr) and can't do anything very well. Assaults are Dusts misfits. We can't slay as well as Sentinel, can't flank like a scout, and can't do damage as well as Commando, can't play support like a Logi but we can master being cannon foder.
gustavo acosta Bloodline Rebellion Public.Disorder. 332	Posted - 2014.10.16 18:37:00 - [26] - Quote Assaults should have the best longevity because it would make the better at slaying that's why the slayer-logi was so good at slaying. They didn't have to worry too much about armor reps because they got a skill bonus to it. Assaults should get some passive armor reps on all suits, and the regen on the scout should be switched with the assaults. Scouts aren't supposed to be an effective tank to begin with, why should the get a base bonus to shield regen, and recharge delay... Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 237	Posted - 2014.10.16 19:20:00 - [27] - Quote Unless an assault suit can detect and tank a proto shogun scout, or out DPS a boundless hmg Proto Sentinel with Minamatar Logi attached, or escape XT-1s they will not be a popular choice in PC. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 419	Posted - 2014.10.16 20:17:00 - [28] - Quote The way we were talking about making scouts choose between eWAR and tank is the same way assaults should have to choose between protection and damage. The overdrive idea will have crutch players trying to figure out how to exploit some mechanic in mass numbers in no time?! While it's a start to a great idea, it's shouldn't be the end all be all. Assaults are a "jack of all trades master of none" class. As such they should generally operate and customize that way. If they want to run eWAR it should be effective. It shouldn't be to the level of an eWAR scout, but if that scout tanks he's seen. If this assault wants to run damage distribution he should be very efficient at it. I think this should be the one thing that they truly excel at if i'm honest. Their tank is great, but useless when it comes to the damage output of heavies. The reason I push for more eWAR on the assaults is because of my military background that I base most of my tactical application in-game on. Situational awareness is clearly more dangerous than simply loading a larger caliber. If eWAR mods were more effective on assaults they would not need to fear tanked scouts. Currently the amount of precision mods needed to spot even heavies with an assault cripples damage output and shield defense. Sacrificing armor or reps for damp won't help against amarr or caldari scouts even if they're tanked?! These mods should be more effective on assault dropsuits. Not taking away from scout bonuses in any way, but if the scout doesn't take advantage of the bonus and the assault does he should reap the rewards of his sacrifice. The assault bonuses aren't completely bad, but in comparison to other classes bonuses they are pretty awful?! With the exception of the amarr bonus. I would suggest, as a gal and cal bonus, armor and shield efficiency bonuses. You would receive a bonus to resistance against all types of damage. Minimal ofcourse because you don't want to take away from the weapons bonuses against shield and armor, but maybe a percentage buff to damage resistance in general per mod or amount of armor/shield. Free handing right now in response to your ideas so I haven't ironed out numbers yet, but I think this would make more sense for a purely combat role. It's not that they aren't putting out enough damage so much as it is that they aren't surviving long enough to put it out?! Currently they carry around 250 rounds of ammo per load right? How many mercs run out of ammo on a regular basis? I've seen an decrease in the amount of mercs that carry ammo. Why is this? Well because they probably won't survive to fire it. If they had a defensive resistance bonus to either shield or armor, depending on race, coupled with their regen they could again be a viable suit for attacking and defending. Just stacking armor isn't enough anymore. It needs to work! Shield stacking is useless unless the enemy weapon is a mass driver?! It should provide more protection to the wearer longer. If you want to do more damage stack mods, and sacrifice shield and precision. However, if a merc were to add precision mods they should actually work! Maybe a different type of armor and shield mods is in order? Maybe it's time for shield and armor hardeners on dropsuits? No where near the effectiveness of the ones put on tanks obviously, but it would give the suit better surviveability for sure. It's counter could be decreased damage output when active, but it would allow a player to regen and retreat. Scouts are so fast currently that there is no "getting away" in it?! They can out gun you, regen faster, chase you down, and they know where you went too lol! We need to make assaults a bit harder to kill, not make them overpowered damage machines?! Well that's my two cents anyway. "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 419	Posted - 2014.10.16 20:25:00 - [29] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: Scouts are insanely fast, near invisible while you can't hide from them, and at times can get as much armor as an ADV Gallente Assault. Commandos are good AV and loaded with fire power and can deal with near every situation. Sentinels are freaking gods of point defense without even trying with an Advanced HMG I could slaughter a small army and take a burst from a Blaster turret like a champion. Logis are beyond influential and a treasure if you get a good one. Assaults bonuses can all be skilled into (except maybe Amarr) and can't do anything very well. Assaults are Dusts misfits. We can't slay as well as Sentinel, can't flank like a scout, and can't do damage as well as Commando, can't play support like a Logi but we can master being cannon foder. Exactly! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 419	Posted - 2014.10.16 20:27:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: Someone please correct me if I'm wrong and I know there are people out there who will. Logistics = medic Scout = black ops Assault = dps Sentinel = dps Commando = suppression I can't say that I don't see a viable role for any of the suits. I take that back. The basics suits and the malicious suits are kind of crap... CCP hasn't said that the Assaults are for DPS, just that they're for Slaying. Given their bonuses however, one can infer that their advantage of slaying comes from the ability to engage targets for longer periods of time. My point exactly! "Anybody order chaos?"

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 388	Posted - 2014.10.16 21:31:00 - [31] - Quote I'll let the theorycrafters argue over the numbers (then point flaws if I see them) but the idea of Assaults being able to engage some sort of area effect bonus mod or equip I think is an outstanding one. Assaults, as our jack-of-all combat class, should be capable of something like this, it helps them solidify their frontline pushing role by incentivising and rewarding NON-Assaults to move to them and with them. It would make roving groups of Assaults and Sentinels utter beasts but with the very harsh drawback that the groups must stay very close together leaving them extra vulnerable to area-denial explosives/splash damages. One good flux+core loc or MD mag or RE golf discset and the party would be over. EDIT- Nerf scouts. 24/7, 365. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.


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