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DDx77 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 5	Posted - 2014.10.15 18:08:00 - [1] - Quote Here's an interview with an average clone about Swarms: How were swarms buffed? - More speed and they can turn better! When do you use swarms? - When you see enemy vehicle!!! Wait for the lock on and shoot when it's ready! Why do I have to wait for a lock? - I don't know why....these races are so advanced and there's only one rocket launcher in the galaxy and it can't fire manually :/ So you always have swarms on you to kill vehicles right? - well no....see the point is to take objectives and kill other infantry so I usually start with a fit that's good for that. It's really hard to take swarms with you because it takes up the slot where you put a rifle. So what do you do then when a vehicle shows up? - I really just try to avoid it. If I get killed and I think the vehicle is going to be a problem I will load up my Swarm fit. Or I will backtrack to the nearest supply depot if it's not destroyed. Wow that last bit sounds very time consuming. - it is :/ Oh ok, no problem then you have your swarms now, dead vehicle right? - well no, actually it is very hard to kill a vehicle by yourself. You have to be very careful because while you are waiting for the swarms to lock the vehicle can be shooting at you or there are infantry supporting the vehicle and you're not ready for them because again the swarms take up the light w slot. And at best by yourself you will only cause the vehicle to retreat. The ADS got nerfed pretty bad, but if it's a tank, you might be better off leaving it alone. Why? - Well after you fire one shot it can turn it's turret while moving so it might put your swarms out of range and also fire on you and if you move you might also be exposed to infantry. If scans or troops weren't able to see you and you are able to get two shots off, it will use it's hardened and retreat. It's too fast to follow, and by the time you were able to catch up its armor and shields will already be repaired. Wow, it's able to repair armor too? - yes faster than anything Well you are just one infantry, you shouldn't be able to kill a vehicle by yourself right? - no you're right, but if all I'm able to do is scare off a heavy vehicle I shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to do it. What about just simply having more than one player with swarms? - yes that works for a lot better, especially for ADS but a smart tanker will just retreat, repair and resume attacking. So what are you suggesting? - ok finally! REDUCE CPU AND PG FOR SWARMS AND MAKE IT A SIDEARM OR MAKE A SIDEARM VARIANT. OR ALLOW RACIAL WEAPONS (such as Mass Driver, Laser, etc.) UPGRADEABLE TO DO DAMAGE TO VEHICLES That's it? - that's it! And if you do that you can return the ADS back to pre Delta specs
Atiim 12954	Posted - 2014.10.15 18:41:00 - [2] - Quote Pretending to do an interview with yourself does not count as "an interview with the average clone about Swarms". The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1986	Posted - 2014.10.15 18:54:00 - [3] - Quote OP - Honestly I am no one, I'm not even very good but I can kill tanks solo with a plasma cannon. Even armour tanks (though some are very tough nuts to crack with the PLC) so I find it hard to believe that a swarmer couldn't do the same. Have you tried putting those swarms on a fast suit that can somewhat keep pace with the tanks? That's the only reason I am able to get tanks half of the time, because they do not expect rambo to chase them with a plc. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 96	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:03:00 - [4] - Quote I think it's good as is although I've seen games in which it's actually a piece of equipment. You know, your rocket with a sling on your back as you carry you rifle. The best way I could solve this is actually making a dropsuit specifically for av(medium dropsuit, heavies use forge as its a heavy weapon). Give it your light weapon slot and make the swarm an AV type weapon. Give it its own AV slot now that dropsuit carries a rifle and a swarm. The AV slot would be below the light. But hight than sidearm. You can fit side arm in any slot. Swarm on anything but sidearm. Light on any but sidearm and av an so on. Minmatar-assault combat rifle, flaylock pistol, tanked, quick. Before you know it..........your dead.......
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13569	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:11:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Pretending to do an interview with yourself does not count as "an interview with the average clone about Swarms". THANKYOU! "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:25:00 - [6] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: barely coherent babbling about a dropsuit being able to carry both a rifle and a swarm launcher Commando suit says hi. You should say hi back sometime. DDx77 wrote: ridiculous babbling about swarm launchers being turned into a sidearm I disagree with the idea of a swarm launcher being a sidearm. For one thing, AV support fire, IMO, is something that would seem suited to three classes in particular- the Commando (since 2 light weapon slots are pretty cool), the Sentinel (Forge Gun says BLAP), and, IMO, the Logi. But the Logi one would really require some new equipment items introduced into the game. Because no, a swarm launcher (or Plascan) should not be mounted as equipment.
Atiim 12955	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:26:00 - [7] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: OP - Honestly I am no one, I'm not even very good but I can kill tanks solo with a plasma cannon. Even armour tanks (though some are very tough nuts to crack with the PLC) so I find it hard to believe that a swarmer couldn't do the same. Have you tried putting those swarms on a fast suit that can somewhat keep pace with the tanks? That's the only reason I am able to get tanks half of the time, because they do not expect rambo to chase them with a plc. Swarms are definitely capable of killing vehicles HAVs solo, even more so since people seem to think that fittings focused around regen are effective against them. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3645	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:31:00 - [8] - Quote Yes, let's make swarms a sidearm. I can fire two shots with my forge gun then finish them off before they can complete the escape maneuver after they think they're in the clear! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA And that, children, is why making swarms a sidearm is the idiot ball idea of AV.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2014.10.15 19:49:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Yes, let's make swarms a sidearm. I can fire two shots with my forge gun then finish them off before they can complete the escape maneuver after they think they're in the clear! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA And that, children, is why making swarms a sidearm is the idiot ball idea of AV. I agree completely. However, I've got something of a pet idea of having a substantially-weaker variant of the swarm launcher as an equipment item- what do you think of this? I ask because you seem to have that rare ability to discern if an idea is fundamentally flawed and/or stupid, and then gasps actually say so! I wish more people had that gift.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3646	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:39:00 - [10] - Quote You are aware the flaylock does AV damage now, right? go forth and do dumb things.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13577	Posted - 2014.10.15 21:49:00 - [11] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Yes, let's make swarms a sidearm. I can fire two shots with my forge gun then finish them off before they can complete the escape maneuver after they think they're in the clear! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA And that, children, is why making swarms a sidearm is the idiot ball idea of AV. I agree completely. However, I've got something of a pet idea of having a substantially-weaker variant of the swarm launcher as an equipment item- what do you think of this? I ask because you seem to have that rare ability to discern if an idea is fundamentally flawed and/or stupid, and then gasps actually say so! I wish more people had that gift. I'm not against it....but side arm Swarms when I get a coaxial Small Turret on my Tank. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2871	Posted - 2014.10.15 22:07:00 - [12] - Quote A phrase my dear old Pa taught me when I just a youngin' asking for extra cookies after I did my homework. "No. Not just no, but HELL no!" FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1363	Posted - 2014.10.15 22:14:00 - [13] - Quote DDx77 wrote: And at best by yourself you will only cause the vehicle to retreat. Only The murderlust is strong with this post. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1363	Posted - 2014.10.15 22:15:00 - [14] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I think it's good as is although I've seen games in which it's actually a piece of equipment. You know, your rocket with a sling on your back as you carry you rifle. The best way I could solve this is actually making a dropsuit specifically for av(medium dropsuit, heavies use forge as its a heavy weapon). Give it your light weapon slot and make the swarm an AV type weapon. Give it its own AV slot now that dropsuit carries a rifle and a swarm. The AV slot would be below the light. But hight than sidearm. You can fit side arm in any slot. Swarm on anything but sidearm. Light on any but sidearm and av an so on. Won't commando suit help with that purpose? People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1363	Posted - 2014.10.15 22:17:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You are aware the flaylock does AV damage now, right? go forth and do dumb things. Sadly, the flaylock just tickles. Could be allowed to do quite more. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3647	Posted - 2014.10.15 22:21:00 - [16] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You are aware the flaylock does AV damage now, right? go forth and do dumb things. Sadly, the flaylock just tickles. Could be allowed to do quite more. If it did the vehicle drivers would cause a threadcrapstorm none of us would survive.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 96	Posted - 2014.10.16 00:26:00 - [17] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: barely coherent babbling about a dropsuit being able to carry both a rifle and a swarm launcher Commando suit says hi. You should say hi back sometime. DDx77 wrote: ridiculous babbling about swarm launchers being turned into a sidearm I disagree with the idea of a swarm launcher being a sidearm. For one thing, AV support fire, IMO, is something that would seem suited to three classes in particular- the Commando (since 2 light weapon slots are pretty cool), the Sentinel (Forge Gun says BLAP), and, IMO, the Logi. But the Logi one would really require some new equipment items introduced into the game. Because no, a swarm launcher (or Plascan) should not be mounted as equipment. That made laugh lol and yeah you can use commandos but idk it wouldn't be the same than to have a specific thing now. I mean, it does do a good job at it, bu lt something made for it will always be better. Here was my idea= Med suit Light weapon Av weapon (swarm) Av nades 1 equip slot(re ir nanohives) G2low2high a3low1high c1low3high m2high1low Adjusted pg/cpu so that it won't be op X amount of hp and x amount of reps without modules missle resistant shields(x % reduction to something whatever) Minmatar-assault combat rifle, flaylock pistol, tanked, quick. Before you know it..........your dead.......
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 418	Posted - 2014.10.16 01:06:00 - [18] - Quote hey OP i have the solution for your trouble and its called the commando suit. 2 light weapons and enough HP to be viable. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1364	Posted - 2014.10.16 01:55:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You are aware the flaylock does AV damage now, right? go forth and do dumb things. Sadly, the flaylock just tickles. Could be allowed to do quite more. If it did the vehicle drivers would cause a threadcrapstorm none of us would survive. I'm talkin on behalf of both flaylock and vehicle user. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 51	Posted - 2014.10.16 01:57:00 - [20] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: OP - Honestly I am no one, I'm not even very good but I can kill tanks solo with a plasma cannon. Even armour tanks (though some are very tough nuts to crack with the PLC) so I find it hard to believe that a swarmer couldn't do the same. Have you tried putting those swarms on a fast suit that can somewhat keep pace with the tanks? That's the only reason I am able to get tanks half of the time, because they do not expect rambo to chase them with a plc. You can occasionally kill a dumb tanker with a PLC, but lets not start pretending that it isnt entirely the tank driver's fault.

Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2014.10.16 03:25:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You are aware the flaylock does AV damage now, right? go forth and do dumb things. I'd heard it proposed as a potential buff for the flaylock, but no, I actually did not know that. However, what precisely is the flaylocks efficiency % against vehicles? That's the real kicker; Mass Drivers, for example, are usually about 44% efficiency against vehicles, and I personally believe the breach variant should deal full damage to vehicles. (I was actually in a tank duel, my Soma vs a Sica, IIRC, I was blaster fit, he was rail+dmg fit, he's down to about 400 armor, and I overheat, so I jump out in my Ammando and blew him up with a Mass Driver). This being said, I have some preference for my idea as 75% of logi suits do not have sidearm slots. Still have to flesh it out a bit more though.... Also, I feel like I do enough dumb things right now (scout ak0 with a militia magsec+militia scrambler pistol... yeah, not my shining moment of intelligence). True Adamance wrote: I'm not against it....but side arm Swarms when I get a coaxial Small Turret on my Tank. My idea is, more specifically, a swarm launcher variant that is single-shot and fires three missiles instead of four (thus dealing 75% damage across all variants in comparison to the actual swarm), and goes into the equipment slot. This being said, the lack of coaxial weapon mounts for tanks is, IMO, incredibly egregious. I absolutely support coaxial gun mounts for tanks- especially since the coding for it would likely be usable for having multiple pilot controlled weapons in the eventual fighter jets and MTACs. God I can't wait for Legion. Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: That made laugh lol and yeah you can use commandos but idk it wouldn't be the same than to have a specific thing now. I mean, it does do a good job at it, bu lt something made for it will always be better. Here was my idea= Med suit Light weapon Av weapon (swarm) Av nades 1 equip slot(re ir nanohives) G2low2high a3low1high c1low3high m2high1low Adjusted pg/cpu so that it won't be op X amount of hp and x amount of reps without modules missle resistant shields(x % reduction to something whatever) Yes, I live to amuse other forumites. /sarcasm In all seriousness, right now the best suits for use as AV platforms are the heavy frame/sentinel (because Forge Gun), the Commando (becauses Swarms+usually rifle, sometimes mass driver/plascan), and the scout suit (because swarms+proxies+AV nades). IMO, remotes are subpar AV weapons- there's too many things that have to go just right for them to really be a consistently viable weapon. In contrast, proxies can be used to either deny a path of retreat, or booby trap said path- really only depends on how attentive the LAV/HAV driver is. Plascan is also, IMO, a bit better for close quarters AV, but Swarms are pretty much what most players use as the gold standard of AV weapons. Also, I think that you AV suit concept is fundamentally flawed. For one, the dirty Minmatar seem to get shafted on slot count (only 3 slots total compared to 4 for everyone else?), for two the vehicle turret resist isn't really how the resist system works, and finally (IE, "3"), what you describe would just be a medium frame Commando that also had a grenade slot. Given that that's the case, the Commando- which is slow, has a large hitbox, and no grenade slot- would be obsoleted overnight by something that is faster, has a smaller hitbox, a grenade slot, and is otherwise nearly identical. Especially the part where you seem to imply that all of these suits would have some kind of innate armor repair- it really kills the Commando as a suit type for all but the most niche of uses. Which is both sad and symptomatic of the fact that, AFAIK at least, most players use the Commando suit to carry an AV weapon and a rifle. Which is incredibly uninventive.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3652	Posted - 2014.10.16 09:35:00 - [22] - Quote Last time I pointed it I was seeing 80% on the reticle. Used it to polish off an incubus that had foolishly landed to recall.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1232	Posted - 2014.10.16 14:00:00 - [23] - Quote Swarms are powerful enough now.I solo tanks regularly and I'm kinda stupid and slow. If we want to be good with them we should have to sacrifice something, they should not be an afterthought that is still powerful. To those who say Commando every time swarms are discussed, I think you need to look at what you give up for that extra light weapon. You are too slow too chase anything and if the vehicle gets close you have no grenades to kill them or chase them off. Trying to kill a tank at 10 meters with swarms is dicey. I use a MinAssault and I'd use a scout if that weren't an option. Because, that's why.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3654	Posted - 2014.10.16 14:11:00 - [24] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: To those who say Commando every time swarms are discussed, This tendency is a clear sign someone has no imagination and/or poorly understands the interplay of AV/V poorly. As an AV player I can confirm that a damage modded minmando vs a full rack damage modded galssault is right around 40 actual difference in damage done per volley. It's less than 100 and therefore a trivial amount that will likely not affect the number of volleys required to kill any dropship. It's like heavy damage mods. They provide the illusion of enhancement. I have noticed that there is about as much imagination and innovation to be found among the DUST playerbase as you can find in the latest offerings of the Friday the 13th movie franchise.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2014.10.16 17:07:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Last time I pointed it I was seeing 80% on the reticle. Used it to polish off an incubus that had foolishly landed to recall. I now have a burning desire to verify this. Could become very interesting and entertaining to troll tankers with. Because there's really only one tanker I know of that I wouldn't troll. Nothing Certain wrote:* To those who say Commando every time swarms are discussed, I think you need to look at what you give up for that extra light weapon. Breakin Stuff wrote: This tendency is a clear sign someone has no imagination and/or poorly understands the interplay of AV/V poorly. Snipped down to just the relevant portions. As I'm 99% certain I was the first person to bring up the Commando in this thread, my reason for doing so is simple: OP describes a suit that can carry both a light weapon and swarms. That suit already exists. "B-b-but it's not a medium frame!" Well, boo-freakin'-hoo, you have to make a decision on what tradeoffs to accept. Welcome to DUST, where that's supposed to be a core concept. I certainly agree that the Commando isn't always the best option for carrying swarms- my personal opinion is that scouts and the AmLogi are a bit better, and it's mostly because you can mix'n'match nanos, remotes, proxies, and anything else you might find desirable along with a swarm launcher, sidearm, and some kind of grenade. Obviously scouts also have the potential utility of cloaking, and AmLogis are slow as hell and will probably require an LAV to get around, but the point does stand. Especially now with Hotfix Delta having buffed quite a few sidearms. Running an assault suit with swarms and a sidearm for defense is more viable than ever. It's also the same reason the AmLogi is a great swarm suit- slap on the swarms, add a sidearm, season to taste with anti-vehicle-oriented goodies in the equipment slots, and BOOM, you have an anti-vehicle fit that is very capable AND versatile. But most of the time players complain that they have to sacrifice their rifles to carry swarms. So the natural reaction is "hey, looketh over there" and point out the Commando suit which can carry a rifle and a swarm launcher. Or if you happen to be clinically/certifiably insane, you can carry a Plascan and swarms. Because defending yourself against infantry by COMMANDO PUNCH is pretty freakin' awesome.** That would be True Adamance. Not only is he, like myself, loyal to the glorious Empire, but he also seems to have a greater interest in vehicle balance than any other tanker I've seen. *Totally unrelated, but I've gotten more melee kills during the sidearm event than I can remember getting during the entirety of my DUST career previous to the sidearm DDM. My favorite so far was melee killing another scout who, IIRC, was armed with nova knives.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1990	Posted - 2014.10.16 17:43:00 - [26] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: OP - Honestly I am no one, I'm not even very good but I can kill tanks solo with a plasma cannon. Even armour tanks (though some are very tough nuts to crack with the PLC) so I find it hard to believe that a swarmer couldn't do the same. Have you tried putting those swarms on a fast suit that can somewhat keep pace with the tanks? That's the only reason I am able to get tanks half of the time, because they do not expect rambo to chase them with a plc. You can occasionally kill a dumb tanker with a PLC, but lets not start pretending that it isnt entirely the tank driver's fault. Yea to kill an armour tank, it has to be a **** fit or the driver has to be unaware or something but don't underestimate the PLC. With good skills even the Advanced KLA Plasma cannon wrecks shield tanks. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big fk-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 419	Posted - 2014.10.16 18:03:00 - [27] - Quote WOW! .....WOW! Ok when I saw this I first thought "pilot", but then thought "well give the thread a chance". I hate being biased in my opinion of things even, though as a human I don't think we can help that, but this was horrible?! You may indeed be a pilot, although probably a really bad one?! Swarms in their basic form may work as you say, but when in a battlefield envirement i.e. "Hell being raised" there's no way that scenario goes down like that! Tanking without a buddy in a soma will get you annihilated by wirykomi swarms! Flying slow in a gorgon to a point will get you rocked by a PLC, Swarms, or Ishukone forge! Just like running militia drop suits with militia AV will get you killed on the battlefield! Simple! Won't go into detail on what real players already know. You're not that bright are you?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2014.10.16 18:13:00 - [28] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Yea to kill an armour tank, it has to be a ****** fit or the driver has to be unaware or something but don't underestimate the PLC. With good skills even the Advanced KLA Plasma cannon wrecks shield tanks. True story: I once solo'd a Madrugar with a standard-level Plascan and the Amarr Commando suit, way back when Ammando was THE 'mando and Plascans were ultra-bad. The driver was obviously an idiot, considering he just sat there the entire time getting shot in the proverbial face. But I blew up his tank and him with it. I felt like I could take on the whole universe. Of course, that promptly got me killed by some infantry nugget, but hey, that moment- much like the time I melee'd a NK scout to death- will love on in my memory FOREVER.
DDx77 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 5	Posted - 2014.10.17 15:40:00 - [29] - Quote Ok This post could have been a lot better, I just didn't want to make an enraged ***** post and I wanted (failed) to make it interesting. I did not clarify that I was focusing this post towards the very good tankers and pilots. I disagree with anyone who says they can solo them because a good tanker has to make a big mistake in order to get killed by a solo AV player I have been using ADV swarms with minimum two damage mods. And have lately been using it on a scout fit so I can at least cloak and get some protection I will try a Plc, but spec'ing into seems like a waste of sp as the weapon doesn't suit my play style. I also don't want to spec into AV grenades for the same reason My opinion is that unless I have at least two good swarm infantry ( it's best to have three) I'm not killing any strong tanker. I'm also wasting my time if I start out with a swarm fit and doing so after being attacked by vehicles has very small rewards (if any) for way too much risk This was my basis for adding a sidearm swarm weapon or at least buff certain racial weapons. My goal is to reduce what I perceive as major time wasting going back and forth with Swarms that aren't effective unless it's a group of people - which is counterintuitive because we don't want to be fodder for other infantry and we also want to capture objectives
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2014.10.17 19:25:00 - [30] - Quote Before I start being nice, I'll be a little know-it-all: If you spec into grenades at all, you get all grenades. Which means if you're using locus or flux, then you have access to AV grenades. So, you know. As they say in EVE- "HTFU". With that out of the way: I agree that there should be more potential AV threats on field... but that the firepower these threats possess should be weaker than that of a proper light weapon (IE, swarms/PLC). It's also my opinion that it should not be a sidearm weapon. For one, as Breakin mentioned, that makes sentinels with Forges potentially the ultimate AV solution- bad idea is bad, as it were. For two, it (once again) shafts Logis. That's why I think that such a weapon should go into equipment. I even ran the basic concept past some ADS pilots and they seemed to be okay with it (they also seemed more reasonable about the state of ADSs than the more vocal pilot forumites, so there's that). This then gives logis a non-slayer method of offensive support that makes assaults think "hey, we should bring a logi as part of our squad". Heavies already love logis... scouts generally operate without logis due to the design-intent behind scout roles (obviously this is not exactly accurate to the current state of the game), and assault disparage logis endlessly because "logis aren't supporting me". Well, it's hard for a logi to support teammates that he cannot keep up with. Keep in mind that some tankers are either mounting secondary guns with gunners manning them- or they are playing sort-of-smart but sort-of-risk-averse. That is to say, the minute they get shot at with AV weapons, they run all the way to the redline. There's certainly those that don't- they're either stupid/brave enough to face off with you or they're finding other places to hide. As a final take-away, the balance that must be struck with non-primary weapon AV solutions is that they must be weaker than their light weapon brothers, but they must be easy and economical to equip.



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