DUST Search - Shields Vs Armor

Lost Apollo wrote:

Jack 3enimble wrote:

All Cal suits proto here.

The only plate you'll ever need to run on a Caldari suit is a reactive plate, that is if you want more HP. Better not to run a plate at all.

On my adv assault I run either 2 regs or reg and armor rep.

Don't run shield suits if you don't know how to run them. I'm not trying to flame you, but that fit is garbage. Invest in regulators it's worth it.

As for the damage, armor based suits don't need to use both the high and low slots to be effective with their style of tanking like shield suits have to.

Armor suits can run dmg mods in the high slots without sacrificing anything for their main armor or armor rep tank that are in the low slot, that's why the dmg output seems higher. For shield suits this is not the case because obviously dmg mods are in the high slots and shield suits need to those high slots for their main form of tank/rep. The low slots on a shield suit are there to run regulators and or armor rep.

Armor vs Shield will always be THE ongoing debate in Dust.

I've been reading a lot on forums and this thread and I've started using the regulators/energizers and it seems to work a lot better. Now I thank those of you who gave advice and suggestions.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.10.14 06:46:00 - [1] - Quote I have made a very similar post in the past but I'm going to bring it up again. Shields and armor. Simple. I'm not trying to start a forum were here but here we go. Caldari Adv Assault Shield Extender (adv) - +50hp (x4) Armor - +110hp (x1) Armor Repair (adv) - +5hp/s (x1) That gives me 528 shield hp and 265 armor hp. It just seems to me that the shields get shredded so much faster than armor, regardless of the weapon used. I made this fit as sort of a test. There are people who have said that your shields constantly regenerate that is why the armor plates are higher in numerical bonuses. This is sadly not the case. One hit and your shields stop regenerating. If you have armor repair module, you armor does not stop regeneration upon being hit. So I must ask, why jack you shields up if it is better to stack armor? You have to admit I am at least partly right here. I think if there is a module that allows armor to constantly regenerate, wht can there not be on that does this for shields. Yes I know ththat there are the regulators for shields but those take up the slots that armor modes go in. Why not make them go into the shield side? I not necessarily complaining, just looking for a little bit more balance between Shields and Armor. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1921	Posted - 2014.10.14 07:34:00 - [2] - Quote All shields is good if you dedicate enough slots to it. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.10.14 08:25:00 - [3] - Quote Um, I may be having a handicapped moment here but the damn thing won't work for me. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.10.14 08:38:00 - [4] - Quote It would be nice to get amember of CCP or an CPM to look at this... I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.10.14 08:57:00 - [5] - Quote Also, your answer does not address my concern. Why is it so easy to shred shields but not armor? I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3215	Posted - 2014.10.14 10:08:00 - [6] - Quote Shields gets killed faster because it's a smaller number and it's the first buffer that your tanking on. On the contrary armor had higher hp and even if you have the same armor as another person has shields armor is the second buffer so you have a quick "noworryzone". Also with shields the whole point it's to fight and retreat ifyour taking damage and your not repairing then one of two things went wrong; 1) your still in battle 2) you haven't invested in increasing your repair with modules. Which I can tell from your fit your falling in 2). supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 4	Posted - 2014.10.14 11:12:00 - [7] - Quote @Bl4ckst4r Are you referring to armor repairs or shield recharge? The point of the build that I posted above was to see if my shield would run out faster than my armor. Obviously my shield will go first because like you said it is the first buffer. But it is easier to take out someones shield then it is to take out their armor. I have almost twice as much shield HP as I do armor HP. The shield HP seems to disappear faster. This is not about which disappears first because it's obviously going to be shield every time. My question is, why do the shield health get depleted faster than the armors health? I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 764	Posted - 2014.10.14 11:51:00 - [8] - Quote I don't think anyone reported any defective damage dealing with shields and armor so far. Any evidence would of course be welcome. My best explanation would be that if you're on full shields you'll be at 100% health and thus looking for combat - if you're looking to do your assault suit justice, that is. If your shields are depleted you'll be cautious or evasive to get out of combat alive. You'll also spend a lot more time looking at your health while your shields are down than while they are up. All of this contributes to the impression that your armor-hp appear to last a lot longer than your shield-hp. I assume it's just a psychological effect due to the way the game is played. My pub C-1 fit has 560 shields and 193 armor. Shields definitely appear to last longer for me.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3216	Posted - 2014.10.14 13:54:00 - [9] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: @Bl4ckst4r Are you referring to armor repairs or shield recharge? The point of the build that I posted above was to see if my shield would run out faster than my armor. Obviously my shield will go first because like you said it is the first buffer. But it is easier to take out someones shield then it is to take out their armor. I have almost twice as much shield HP as I do armor HP. The shield HP seems to disappear faster. This is not about which disappears first because it's obviously going to be shield every time. My question is, why do the shield health get depleted faster than the armors health? Well if the question is strictly based on why your shields deplete faster that depends on who was shooting you. Also there is personal bias, and perception involved. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 494	Posted - 2014.10.14 14:17:00 - [10] - Quote God not this again. Seriously, shields and armor are balanced. How many more shield buffs does there need to be before shields are OP again and their users finally stop bitching?

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7960	Posted - 2014.10.14 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote People dont run shield suits right is the major problem. Like this guy. he only mentioned one shield module to fit on his suit, not any rechargers/energizers or even regulators! But he does mention Armor repair as well as the plates. Skewed analysis much? Secondly he doesnt even mention how much that complex plate takes off your movement, as any armor tanker knows the complex Plate is only good on a heavy suit where you are already slow. The complex plate makes it to where you can't jump over rails, strafe well, and slows you down a ton but lets not mention that. Lets just let shield users think they are getting the short end of the stick as always because they are usually not too smart, and not being smart gets you killed a lot in this game. Just like Armor tanking you need more than just one module for it to be effective but Shields get the bonus of not having to be weighed down and automatically repair without having two modules in your main tanking slot. The regulator works wonders if people bothered to actually skill into it bit no one ever does, because most DUST players couldn't run a shield suit to save their lives. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
benandjerrys NECROM0NGERS 28	Posted - 2014.10.14 16:11:00 - [12] - Quote Shields are kites. If a few bullets thwap you fly away... dictate range hold an obj at a distance and move cover to cover. I remember one time killing two quantums with the only good ck.0 with my min mk.0 cause he was still the only one on the other team still playing. Shields can be very effective but you have to change your posture to be efficient. ...and regulators make all the difference in this do not do not do not get all the way depleted if you can help it.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18141	Posted - 2014.10.14 17:29:00 - [13] - Quote If I understand you correctly, your objection is that shields are easier to damage than armour, regardless of the actual HP numbers? I can assure you that's not the case. Having redone a damage profile test for weapons after the projectile changes, I've found no anomalies. The forums have ruined me.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12610	Posted - 2014.10.14 17:35:00 - [14] - Quote Most weapons are anti armor. The most popular weapons (CR, RR) are anti armor. Saying that shields get damaged faster is just plain wrong. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1922	Posted - 2014.10.14 17:52:00 - [15] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: Also, your answer does not address my concern. Why is it so easy to shred shields but not armor? Because armor has more raw hp than shield, it seems like it's taking off smaller chunks than shield. Explanation. Let's take a weapon that does 300 damage. the most shield you can get is about 835ish on a Caldari sentinel. 300 is a large chunk of 835, about 1/3. Now let's compare that to the Amarr sentinel with 1344 armor. 300 damage off of 1344 is FAR less percentage wise, about 1/5. thus, it seems like you are doing less damage, because you have taken out a comparatively smaller chunk of armor health than shield health. However, proper shield tanks can come back extremely quickly. My CalAssault can go from 0 shield to full in 12 seconds. Meaning I can get back into the fight faster than an armor user can. There is indeed some imbalance between armor and shield in favor of armor, but shield is by no means weak. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 5	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:34:00 - [16] - Quote Some of you were helpful, and I thank you. Others, not so much. I was asking for help, not ridicule . Thanks guys. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3631	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:18:00 - [17] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: Some of you were helpful, and I thank you. Others, not so much. I was asking for help, not ridicule . Thanks guys. Best advice: drop an extender for an energizer, replace the plate with a regulator. keep the armor rep. the energizer minimizes your downtime, and the regulator causes the shield regen to kick in faster, minimizing downtime. I use energizers and regs on my caldari sentinels. It's unholy. and awesome but still unholy.
Cheydinhal Guard Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 231	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:49:00 - [18] - Quote The Caldari are not armor tankers. If you want your shields to be as effective as armor, you're gonna have to drop the armor plates (Oh no, what a nightmare!) and run shield regulators. With a good mixture of different shield mods and a good mentality, you'll find that your shields are equally as sturdy as armor. Be the mercenary of tomorrow, today. Go beyond with Aurum!
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 5	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:53:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: Some of you were helpful, and I thank you. Others, not so much. I was asking for help, not ridicule . Thanks guys. Best advice: drop an extender for an energizer, replace the plate with a regulator. keep the armor rep. the energizer minimizes your downtime, and the regulator causes the shield regen to kick in faster, minimizing downtime. I use energizers and regs on my caldari sentinels. It's unholy. and awesome but still unholy. Is it the same concept with Minmatar suits? I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 421	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:54:00 - [20] - Quote All Cal suits proto here. The only plate you'll ever need to run on a Caldari suit is a reactive plate, that is if you want more HP. Better not to run a plate at all. On my adv assault I run either 2 regs or reg and armor rep. Don't run shield suits if you don't know how to run them. I'm not trying to flame you, but that fit is garbage. Invest in regulators it's worth it. As for the damage, armor based suits don't need to use both the high and low slots to be effective with their style of tanking like shield suits have to. Armor suits can run dmg mods in the high slots without sacrificing anything for their main armor or armor rep tank that are in the low slot, that's why the dmg output seems higher. For shield suits this is not the case because obviously dmg mods are in the high slots and shield suits need to those high slots for their main form of tank/rep. The low slots on a shield suit are there to run regulators and or armor rep. Armor vs Shield will always be THE ongoing debate in Dust.

Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 5	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:01:00 - [21] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: All Cal suits proto here. The only plate you'll ever need to run on a Caldari suit is a reactive plate, that is if you want more HP. Better not to run a plate at all. On my adv assault I run either 2 regs or reg and armor rep. Don't run shield suits if you don't know how to run them. I'm not trying to flame you, but that fit is garbage. Invest in regulators it's worth it. As for the damage, armor based suits don't need to use both the high and low slots to be effective with their style of tanking like shield suits have to. Armor suits can run dmg mods in the high slots without sacrificing anything for their main armor or armor rep tank that are in the low slot, that's why the dmg output seems higher. For shield suits this is not the case because obviously dmg mods are in the high slots and shield suits need to those high slots for their main form of tank/rep. The low slots on a shield suit are there to run regulators and or armor rep. Armor vs Shield will always be THE ongoing debate in Dust. I've been reading a lot on forums and this thread and I've started using the regulators/energizers and it seems to work a lot better. Now I thank those of you who gave advice and suggestions. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 421	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:03:00 - [22] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: All Cal suits proto here. The only plate you'll ever need to run on a Caldari suit is a reactive plate, that is if you want more HP. Better not to run a plate at all. On my adv assault I run either 2 regs or reg and armor rep. Don't run shield suits if you don't know how to run them. I'm not trying to flame you, but that fit is garbage. Invest in regulators it's worth it. As for the damage, armor based suits don't need to use both the high and low slots to be effective with their style of tanking like shield suits have to. Armor suits can run dmg mods in the high slots without sacrificing anything for their main armor or armor rep tank that are in the low slot, that's why the dmg output seems higher. For shield suits this is not the case because obviously dmg mods are in the high slots and shield suits need to those high slots for their main form of tank/rep. The low slots on a shield suit are there to run regulators and or armor rep. Armor vs Shield will always be THE ongoing debate in Dust. I've been reading a lot on forums and this thread and I've started using the regulators/energizers and it seems to work a lot better. Now I thank those of you who gave advice and suggestions. Also shield suits are not there to brawl close range, keep your distance a bit. Medium to longer range is where you'll want to be and never attack more than 2 enemies at the same time. PS run flux grenades
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1358	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:29:00 - [23] - Quote Tip for the op: Please add the word "Dropsuits" to the topic. helps somewhat as there can be same discussion for vehicles - but with entirely different arguments. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change


Pages: 1 :: [one page]