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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
452
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Working as intended? One side sits far away with rail rifles, or ontop of a raised terrain with rail rifles... Or inside of a building with burst hmgs. In any case, there are always multiple logis constantly repping anyone nearby getting kills and they generate loads of wp for the one orbital of the game.
This is miserably boring to watch go down. Why are these scrubs allowed to get wp infinitely like this? Does someone really deserve to be rewarded for butt sniffing? Why isn't butt sniffing reward enough for these people apparently they liked it enough to spec into it.
How is it that ambush has been reduced to this? Is there any change planned? This used to be a fun mode to play.
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
999
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dengru wrote:Working as intended? One side sits far away with rail rifles, or ontop of a raised terrain with rail rifles... Or inside of a building with burst hmgs. In any case, there are always multiple logis constantly repping anyone nearby getting kills and they generate loads of wp.
This is miserably boring to watch go down. Why are these scrubs allowed to get wp infinitely like this? Does someone really deserve to be rewarded for butt sniffing? Why isn't butt sniffing reward enough for these people apparently they liked it enough to spec into it.
How is it that ambush has been reduced to this? Is there any change planned? This used to be a fun mode to play.
your logic is flawed, we work hard for our WP cause we have low K/D but high WP cause with out us your screwed.. and most of the time its the logi who is the squad commander.. "most" of the time, because they do stuff behind the scenes while the slayers slay.
but i will say this.. try actually playing logi as hardcore as some of us dedicated logi who didnt follow the FOTM and you will realize how hard is actually IS.. soo.. GIT GUD
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 2 Forum Pariah
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danthrax martin
Butcher's Nails
142
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
? Is there pain to feel here? I don"t get it...
Pro Galmando - Gal Sentinel
Suicidal A/V Moron
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4165
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just out of curiosity.... why exactly is it the Logi's fault that a bunch of RR scrubs are pinging away from a rooftop? I'm not condoning such "tactics" but I wonder if maybe you are trying to address something that isn't the actual problem.
(I'll set aside the lack of "infinite" WP you speak of, because it's actually not super-relevant... A bunch of sentinels stuck inside a building in ambush also sounds like free kills for anyone with RE's or a Freedom MD to me)
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
452
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
A lot of the time the logi is in the same squad as those people and he's a huge part of the problem. And how isn't that relevant? Why is he able to rep someone to no diminishing return for 15 minutes? That's absurd.
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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Atiim
12890
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
[Request] Rework Repair Tools
Reasonable solutions to give slayers more WP?
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4165
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
It would only make sense for him to be in the squad in the context of it being the way to get OB's. My point is, why are we blaming the logi for supporting the "battle plan", such as it is, that his offensively-minded teammates are carrying out?
If he's the commander making all the decisions that's one thing. But while say, the scrub RR heavy can choose to do something other than camp the roof, or just sit in a cave with his burst HMG defending a point... that doesn't exist in ambush, the logi has no such freedom. There is no alternative course of action other than to stick with his squad and provide requested support.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1003
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dengru wrote:A lot of the time the logi is in the same squad as those people and he's a huge part of the problem. And how isn't that relevant? Why is he able to rep someone to no diminishing return for 15 minutes? That's absurd.
actually there IS a point cap and i hit it often with my proto reps and then its 1 minute or 1 suit change later to remove the cap again.. HOWEVER! one cannot always be swaping suits and camping the resupply silo and its not always prudent to leave your charges to seek out a roof camping rilrifle scrub to gib.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1003
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
reptools do not need reworking. your suggestions would be the polar opposite to how EVE works and by extention how DUST and legion should work too.
ps. i have seem "slayers" get easly 2x more points then me.. mostly due to cleaver use of mechanics+orbitals+squadplay
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4165
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dengru wrote:A lot of the time the logi is in the same squad as those people and he's a huge part of the problem. And how isn't that relevant? Why is he able to rep someone to no diminishing return for 15 minutes? That's absurd.
Caught me with your edit.
For starters, you don't get unlimited triage WP, it's capped. More specifically, it's not relevant because it's not related to the choice of tactics. Rep tools are currently less effective than they were for most of Dust's lifetime, they have nothing to do with how scrubby the people with the guns choose to be atm.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
452
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:It would only make sense for him to be in the squad in the context of it being the way to get OB's. My point is, why are we blaming the logi for supporting the "battle plan", such as it is, that his offensively-minded teammates are carrying out?
If he's the commander making all the decisions that's one thing. But while say, the scrub RR heavy can choose to do something other than camp the roof, or just sit in a cave with his burst HMG defending a point... that doesn't exist in ambush, the logi has no such freedom. There is no alternative course of action other than to stick with his squad and provide requested support.
That's not a battle plan, that's people shootings each others from positions that are being needlessly maintained by uplink spam by that same logi probably. In every match the only one to get WP are logis with cheap spam tactics to the detriment of everyone's enjoyment.
Bunch of heavies and the entire team continually spawning in building and won't leave? Constantly repped? Why does he get rewarded for that with no diminishing return ? It's not hard to do that yet it's the most profitable thing. It's so bad that's the only way orbital are ever achieved
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1003
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Dengru wrote:A lot of the time the logi is in the same squad as those people and he's a huge part of the problem. And how isn't that relevant? Why is he able to rep someone to no diminishing return for 15 minutes? That's absurd. Caught me with your edit. It isn't relevant because you don't get unlimited triage WP, it's capped. It's also not directly related to the choice of tactics. Rep tools are currently less effective than they were for most of Dust's lifetime, they have nothing to do with how scrubby the people with the guns choose to be atm.
i agree.. even when following a heavy with a reptool once we hit the triage cap we can only get guardian points for babysitting the heavy/player and only +10 points if we drop a hive because the points on hives are stupidly nerfed/gimped to 10 per PLAYER who uses the hive and not 10 points per TICK
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1003
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Posted - 2014.10.11 17:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dengru wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:It would only make sense for him to be in the squad in the context of it being the way to get OB's. My point is, why are we blaming the logi for supporting the "battle plan", such as it is, that his offensively-minded teammates are carrying out?
If he's the commander making all the decisions that's one thing. But while say, the scrub RR heavy can choose to do something other than camp the roof, or just sit in a cave with his burst HMG defending a point... that doesn't exist in ambush, the logi has no such freedom. There is no alternative course of action other than to stick with his squad and provide requested support. That's not a battle plan, that's people shootings each others from positions that are being needlessly maintained by uplink spam by that same logi probably. In every match the only one to get WP are logis with cheap spam tactics to the detriment of everyone's enjoyment. Bunch of heavies and the entire team continually spawning in building and won't leave? Constantly repped? Why does he get rewarded for that with no diminishing return ? It's not hard to do that yet it's the most profitable thing. It's so bad that's the only way orbital are ever achieved
all you are doign is whining.. squad up.. and save your orbital for those times when you need to clear out those rooms full of players and reps and hives and heavys..
better yet.. throw out an active scan too so you get +50 AND +15 per "defender" kill instead of just being a lemming and running in just to die over and over. PLAY SMART, GIT GUD.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
188
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oki and if my team is in middle of crossfire?!
By this i basicaly cant fix them all and i pushed to sacrifice someone who will need my support too.
Yesterday i was with group of five and enemy flank us, we was lucky i had droplinks and i fix everyone who made it to cever,
With this upgrade, i+» ll be pushed to make decisions who will and will not receive healing.
Honestly not good for me, like for proper logi.
"Ultimate Loggi since 2012 and Pirmatar Yaaaaaargh."
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Atiim
12891
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:Oki and if my team is in middle of crossfire?! By this i basicaly cant fix them all and i pushed to sacrifice someone who will need my support too. Yesterday i was with group of five and enemy flank us, we was lucky i had droplinks and i fix everyone who made it to cever, With this upgrade, i+» ll be pushed to make decisions who will and will not receive healing. Honestly not good for me, like for proper logi.
How wouldn't you be able to, exactly?
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
453
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm not whining I'm pointing out how the flow of matches, the enjoyment level, is constantly interrupted by this nonsense. It serves no purpose to arbitrarily throw around uplink and stuffs besides to generate wp. It shouldn't be rewarded to that extent, people would stop doing that. It's sad and tedious to watch happen every match. Its also sad how people feel proud about being on top of leaderboards doing this.
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4168
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dengru wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:It would only make sense for him to be in the squad in the context of it being the way to get OB's. My point is, why are we blaming the logi for supporting the "battle plan", such as it is, that his offensively-minded teammates are carrying out?
If he's the commander making all the decisions that's one thing. But while say, the scrub RR heavy can choose to do something other than camp the roof, or just sit in a cave with his burst HMG defending a point... that doesn't exist in ambush, the logi has no such freedom. There is no alternative course of action other than to stick with his squad and provide requested support. That's not a battle plan, that's people shootings each others from positions that are being needlessly maintained by uplink spam by that same logi probably. In every match the only one to get WP are logis with cheap spam tactics to the detriment of everyone's enjoyment. Bunch of heavies and the entire team continually spawning in building and won't leave? Constantly repped? Why does he get rewarded for that with no diminishing return ? It's not hard to do that yet it's the most profitable thing. It's so bad that's the only way orbital are ever achieved
I put it in quotes because you are correct, it's not much of a plan. And, I hate to ask, but if's it's ambush, how are they not just getting camped and slaughtered? Every ambush I've ever been in where one team spawns en masse into a single building doesn't end well for them.
Again, you're missing my point. I am not disagreeing that it's a lame way to fight a battle. What I do disagree with is that nerfing rep tools (or logis) is in any way a logical solution to it.
How is the rep tool to blame for this? When did I miss rep tools (or other equipment, or logi's, for that matter) getting buffed?
Lets think about this in a ludicrously simplified mathematical way:
A + B = E
A is rep tools and logi suits. B is "unspecified other stuff". E is your "enjoyment of battle".
A has not changed. Therefore any change in E must be due to a change in B.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
454
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
The situation is happening because of the logis. They are continually spawning in the same zones because of the uplinks. If they are being camped it's just more to the benefit of wp generation. You're missing my point, I'm complaining about the profit of these things and how it's out of proportion with it's actual difficulty and benefit. It's just stupid wp generation
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1065
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I like farming points its fun.
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
104
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
The tactics he described were just painting a picture what he is complaining about is the hands free wp generation (read much?) with the exception of the rep tool where you have to walk a little. Low risk huge rewards droplinks wp need reduced to that of nanohives if not less since nanites run out super fast and get rid of guardian bonus you heal the hmg user because he keeps your other tools up and guys off you squishy butt.
Another thing that would be nice to see is a cap or lower cap to how many healers can be on one person.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
188
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Atiim wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:Oki and if my team is in middle of crossfire?! By this i basicaly cant fix them all and i pushed to sacrifice someone who will need my support too. Yesterday i was with group of five and enemy flank us, we was lucky i had droplinks and i fix everyone who made it to cever, With this upgrade, i+» ll be pushed to make decisions who will and will not receive healing. Honestly not good for me, like for proper logi. How wouldn't you be able to, exactly?
Ohhh sorry i missed that 6k units 
"Ultimate Loggi since 2012 and Pirmatar Yaaaaaargh."
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
188
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dengru wrote:The situation is happening because of the logis. They are continually spawning in the same zones because of the uplinks. If they are being camped it's just more to the benefit of wp generation. You're missing my point, I'm complaining about the profit of these things and how it's out of proportion with it's actual difficulty and benefit. It's just stupid wp generation
Not all logis, matee boyo.
You see everztime i put droplink to some place, where is spawning covered and not seen by enemy.
If enemy found it i EVERYTIME tell to my matees to do not use it because enemy around.
After that i change place for upling somwhere else.
Nanohives i using tacticaly EVERYTIME AND ONLY when aquad mates need it.
Fixin' i using to WHOLE GROUP im not a fan of favoritism.
Yup i will support boyo with fixin' beams, but if i see someone who was taked up or lost too much HPs i will fix his in NOTIME.
If you see something different than what i wrote here, that boyo is propably just SP hunter logi wanabee
"Ultimate Loggi since 2012 and Pirmatar Yaaaaaargh."
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4170
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Posted - 2014.10.11 18:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dengru wrote:The situation is happening because of the logis. They are continually spawning in the same zones because of the uplinks. If they are being camped it's just more to the benefit of wp generation. You're missing my point, I'm complaining about the profit of these things and how it's out of proportion with it's actual difficulty and benefit. It's just stupid wp generation
Blueprint For Murder wrote:The tactics he described were just painting a picture what he is complaining about is the hands free wp generation (read much?) with the exception of the rep tool where you have to walk a little. Low risk huge rewards droplinks wp need reduced to that of nanohives if not less since nanites run out super fast and get rid of guardian bonus you heal the hmg user because he keeps your other tools up and guys off you squishy butt.
Another thing that would be nice to see is a cap or lower cap to how many healers can be on one person.
*sighs*
None of these things have changed in a positive way.
- Rep tools got nerfed in 1.8 and are still that way
- WP rewards have not changed since triage points were capped like a year ago
- Last major change to logi suits was a big fat nerf including loss of inherent reps, also in 1.8.
In the meantime, armor tanked scouts with cloaks became OP FoTM and the burst HMG sentinel not far behind. Assaults got more slots, more HP, and a huge fitting increase. You tell me what is most likely to result in a recent change in battle tactics.
The stuff that's either not changed at all, or if it has, it's signficantly degraded in quality? Sure thing dude, whatever you say.
SMH.
*leaves thread*
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
455
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Posted - 2014.10.11 19:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
So I have to talk about scouts in a thread about a specific. Good thing you're leaving you're condescending and not very constructive.
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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RayRay James
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
493
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Posted - 2014.10.11 19:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
Do you know how hard it is to find two Heavies that will stick together as a team?/ Effing hell, If I finally get 2 people together that care to keep a point, i deserve all the points I get off of them. If it's not for that scenario, I can maybe get some points off Intel, or the occasional kill, but Logi's are at such a disadvantage (intentionally) that keeping people alive is all we got. |
Reign Omega
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
944
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Posted - 2014.10.11 19:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Damn you support players go kill people! Don't just rep, revive, resupply and provide mobile spawn points in better places!
Logi- "ok! Let me refit my suit for optimal combat capacity! I was tired of doing no fighting anyways..."
Ahhhhh OMG slayer logi so OP! Nerf him, give him only sidearm! Take away his passive rep too stronk! Ermagerd!!!!
Logi- "wait, you told me to help out with killing...I am bad? You no like?"
Make up your asshat minds, you want logi to support well, or shoot well, or both? Or is it you want them to support kind of ok, but not so well that the slayer can't be top dog on the scoreboard? People are not flocking to logistics because most ppl want to slay. So one or two guys in every game are the mules doing most of the work.... and you want to blame them?
Shut up.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
455
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Posted - 2014.10.11 19:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why are you scrubs so hostile? Do you really consider randomly throwing around uplink and hives some kind of hard thing? The reward is clearly out if proportion to the difficulty. It was never hard, that's why slayer logis existed cause it's not hard to fling around equipment and passively reap benefits.
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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Reign Omega
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
946
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Posted - 2014.10.11 19:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
It's not about difficulty, nothing in this game is difficult to do. Doing it well, in a manner that doesn't get you or your teammates farmed camped or killed deserves rewards, that's a fact. Running a logi, not going negative, and not just latching yourself to the nearest fat person and running behind them with tunnel vision is deserving of rewards. Everyone drops shite links in ambush, only a few drop them well, and those get rewarded with more spawns and more points. Slayer s who slay well are complimented by good support, and the rest are just farming points trying to get paid. There is no way to differentiate between the two on paper, only in practice.
Also, shove that scrub firmly up your ass alliance mate, you're not anything special on the field.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
4170
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Posted - 2014.10.11 20:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dengru wrote:So I have to talk about scouts in a thread about a specific complaint? Good thing you're leaving you're condescending and not very constructive.
*turns back around on way out*
Your specific complaint is built upon a false premise. Thus, the discussion of actual things that might be causing a recent change in the way battles are fought.
And, please, save the hypocritical accusations of both scrubbiness and other people being condescending.
This continues to be a rather frustrating conversation.
*closes door*
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Dengru
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
455
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Posted - 2014.10.11 20:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Dengru wrote:So I have to talk about scouts in a thread about a specific complaint? Good thing you're leaving you're condescending and not very constructive. *turns back around on way out* Your specific complaint is built upon a false premise. Thus, the discussion of actual things that might be causing a recent change in the way battles are fought. And, please, save the hypocritical accusations of both scrubbiness and other people being condescending.  This continues to be a rather frustrating conversation. *closes door*
not really, if you want to sperge around and misconstrue me that's fine although very sad and pointless .
Reign Omega wrote:It's not about difficulty, nothing in this game is difficult to do. Doing it well, in a manner that doesn't get you or your teammates farmed camped or killed deserves rewards, that's a fact. Running a logi, not going negative, and not just latching yourself to the nearest fat person and running behind them with tunnel vision is deserving of rewards. Everyone drops shite links in ambush, only a few drop them well, and those get rewarded with more spawns and more points. Slayer s who slay well are complimented by good support, and the rest are just farming points trying to get paid. There is no way to differentiate between the two on paper, only in practice.
Also, shove that scrub firmly up your ass alliance mate, you're not anything special on the field.
It's only hard in PC, and I don't remember you ever being selected to play in those. Anyone in the situations I've described are just farming and it's bad.
(>^_^)><(^.^<)
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