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Spankdamonke
Dapper Gentlemen Corporation
10
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Posted - 2014.10.01 07:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was quite pleased with the new Mu system at first, every battle actually had a degree of balance. Lately however, I'd say roughly 80% of the matches Scotty plops me in are complete and utter blowouts...
I'm talking ambush OMS matches with my team cloned and 40+ remaining on the opposing team
Dominations where I seemed to only have blueberries fresh from the academy (average scores among teammates was a paltry 300-500wp and 6 kills vs an average 900-1000wp and 12 kills on the enemy side)
And Skirmishes in which at least 1/3 of my side didn't bother venturing out of the Redline, and the enemy held every single point (aside from the few moments I managed to get in a couple of hacks)
I mean, I still almost always finish in the top spot. And I am by no means a "Ringer". For that I suppose I should be grateful. But the level of enjoyment is spiraling downward as I am simply not getting more balanced games.
Is anyone else seeing anything like this? Almost as if, in some ways, the Mu is going backwards? |
Crimson ShieId
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
979
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Posted - 2014.10.01 07:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've noticed this too. When it was first introduced, I'd get perhaps 1 out of 5 matches that were stomps, the rest would be good, but while it doesn't seem as bad as it used to be, the amount of games I've joined that were complete and utter destruction of one side or the other seems to have gone up again, oddly enough... right after hotfix Delta was released. A lot of the matches are still even though, so I'm inclined to think that it's just because of a lack of players. The system just can't find enough people to constantly make even games.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
7691
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Posted - 2014.10.01 07:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Squads are what causes pubstomps, not individuals and their Mus.
I hope CCP sees that one day.
Something's wrong when you regret
Things that haven't happened yet
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Vicious Minotaur
1155
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Posted - 2014.10.01 08:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I dunno, it seems as if the Mu just does not like Yu.
*feels clever* *realizes he is not*
...
*Saunters off, looking sad*
I am a minotaur.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1183
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Posted - 2014.10.01 08:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
One of the problems I have noticed is that I see players who are well known and undoubtedly have high Mu's are dropping out of fights as soon as they see another good player or squad on the other team. Matchmaking was working and too many people don't like actually playing against people who can compete with them.
Because, that's why.
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Spankdamonke
Dapper Gentlemen Corporation
10
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Posted - 2014.10.01 09:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:One of the problems I have noticed is that I see players who are well known and undoubtedly have high Mu's are dropping out of fights as soon as they see another good player or squad on the other team. Matchmaking was working and too many people don't like actually playing against people who can compete with them.
Damn good point...hadn't even given that a thought.
Don't get me wrong, the fact that I tend to play from Midnight to 5am EST (U.S.) probably has a lot to do with it too. There just aren't as many people to pair up as Crimson mentioned earlier.
And I agree Kirk, their system can't account for good squad coordination. It's just too much of a force multiplier in most situations. As such, it will never really work as they'd hoped :/ |
matsumoto yuichi san
The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance
57
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Posted - 2014.10.01 13:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
it also doesn't seem to do a good job of accounting for your team deciding to yolo around in LAV and snipe, or the enemy pulling out 2 ADS and 3 tanks :P, all sorts of flaws, but it is better usually.
one real downside is now there is some sort of system though regardless of individual performance, you can get stuck in a situation where the team loses, mu goes down, until your individual performance pulls your mu up by you being able to force a win or 2, repeat.
called ELO hell in other games, is a real flaw in mu / elo based systems, where teamplay is a much higher percentage of the game than individual capability. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5400
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Posted - 2014.10.01 13:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Similar observations over the past few days.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
423
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Posted - 2014.10.01 13:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Squads are what causes pubstomps, not individuals and their Mus.
I hope CCP sees that one day.
Yep, i think it is this. Pre-made power player squads with comms ruin the solo or new player "jump in and have fun" aspect. Also, the small player base active at any one time skews it.
But, I am wondering if there is something else afoot. Could it be that a person is playing in a mil suit and doing badly (maybe even purposefully) then puts on a proto suit and squads up with others to stomp? Welcome to the new Nyain san, Asian power player exploitation of mechanics. Surely, that demographic sought an exploit from day one just so they could get their protostomping lols.
THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
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Laushanter Acate
G.R.A.V.E
2
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Posted - 2014.10.02 03:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
I noticed much a trend toward players dropping battles in the first stretch, so Mu is working in itself at least. Some players are trying to "hedge their bet".
Also Mu really can only account for initial stats going in to battle. Again, its up to the players to sortie and thus the above happens. Meanwhile Mu has been doing nicely with pre-squaded battles (corp squads)
Overall its still a read of the roster and Mu works.
(P.s. ^^^ Nothing Certain makes the point well ) |
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CLONE OF MANY
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.10.02 05:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spankdamonke wrote:I was quite pleased with the new Mu system at first, every battle actually had a degree of balance. Lately however, I'd say roughly 80% of the matches Scotty plops me in are complete and utter blowouts...
I'm talking ambush OMS matches with my team cloned and 40+ remaining on the opposing team
Dominations where I seemed to only have blueberries fresh from the academy (average scores among teammates was a paltry 300-500wp and 6 kills vs an average 900-1000wp and 12 kills on the enemy side)
And Skirmishes in which at least 1/3 of my side didn't bother venturing out of the Redline, and the enemy held every single point (aside from the few moments I managed to get in a couple of hacks)
I mean, I still almost always finish in the top spot. And I am by no means a "Ringer". For that I suppose I should be grateful. But the level of enjoyment is spiraling downward as I am simply not getting more balanced games.
Is anyone else seeing anything like this? Almost as if, in some ways, the Mu is going backwards?
This is the product of involving W/L ratio in the matchmaking system. The better it works the more it breaks itself by grouping everyone into the middle and leaving other factors to decide.
It will not take long for matchmaking to go all the way back to its previous state thanks to everyone ending up with the same rough W/L ratio.
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
Pure Evil.
1984
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Posted - 2014.10.02 05:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Squads are what causes pubstomps, not individuals and their Mus.
I hope CCP sees that one day. Yep, i think it is this. Pre-made power player squads with comms ruin the solo or new player "jump in and have fun" aspect. Also, the small player base active at any one time skews it. But, I am wondering if there is something else afoot. Could it be that a person is playing in a mil suit and doing badly (maybe even purposefully) then puts on a proto suit and squads up with others to stomp? Welcome to the new Nyain san, Asian power player exploitation of mechanics. Surely, that demographic sought an exploit from day one just so they could get their protostomping lols.
NS isnt the first or last to pubstomp, or abuse mechanics. But, because most of them arent american, there hated the most. Racist much?
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
Slowly embracing my inner ninja. Im a decent ghost. And a decent menace.
Mk.0, Gk.0, & 'Sever' Scout
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9622
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Posted - 2014.10.02 05:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:One of the problems I have noticed is that I see players who are well known and undoubtedly have high Mu's are dropping out of fights as soon as they see another good player or squad on the other team. Matchmaking was working and too many people don't like actually playing against people who can compete with them.
I agree a lot with this.
Honestly, if someone is willing to drop out of a match just because they see someone or some group on the opposing team who is likely skilled or is at least capable of dishing out a serious fight, it only shows how spoiled they are. They don't want a challenge and don't like having to put in serious work. If I go into a match and I see the opposing team has some serious players, then I would likely stick around and do my best to cause as much hell as possible to them before they get their victory (if they get a victory at all). I have been in several matches where my team lost all objectives (mainly in Ashland) early and were getting stomped. Using my scout skills and a damn-good-speed-hack Minscout suit, I was at least able to keep the opposing team on their toes by hacking the objectives closest to their side forcing them to pull players from the objective closest to my team's side so that my team can have a chance at advancing.
Unfortunately, I sometimes end up with a team that literally doesn't want to put any effort at all despite me being able to hack several objectives to help them advance. As a result, all objectives I captured end up flipping back to the enemy and we lose the match.
Sometimes it's not the fault of the Mu. Sometimes it's the fault of the team.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9622
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Posted - 2014.10.02 05:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
CLONE OF MANY wrote:Spankdamonke wrote:I was quite pleased with the new Mu system at first, every battle actually had a degree of balance. Lately however, I'd say roughly 80% of the matches Scotty plops me in are complete and utter blowouts...
I'm talking ambush OMS matches with my team cloned and 40+ remaining on the opposing team
Dominations where I seemed to only have blueberries fresh from the academy (average scores among teammates was a paltry 300-500wp and 6 kills vs an average 900-1000wp and 12 kills on the enemy side)
And Skirmishes in which at least 1/3 of my side didn't bother venturing out of the Redline, and the enemy held every single point (aside from the few moments I managed to get in a couple of hacks)
I mean, I still almost always finish in the top spot. And I am by no means a "Ringer". For that I suppose I should be grateful. But the level of enjoyment is spiraling downward as I am simply not getting more balanced games.
Is anyone else seeing anything like this? Almost as if, in some ways, the Mu is going backwards? This is the product of involving W/L ratio in the matchmaking system. The better it works the more it breaks itself by grouping everyone into the middle and leaving other factors to decide. It will not take long for matchmaking to go all the way back to its previous state thanks to everyone ending up with the same rough W/L ratio.
According to CCP Rattati, the Mu doesn't only take into account the W/L ratio. It also accounts for the K/D ratio.
Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175428&find=unread
Quote: When enough players have queued up, a battle is created and the Team Balancer goes to work. Units are created out of individual players and squads, and these Units have the Rank of "sum of Mu of Unit", where Mu is a paramater closely correlated to both W/L and K/D ratios.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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CLONE OF MANY
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.10.02 06:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:CLONE OF MANY wrote:Spankdamonke wrote:I was quite pleased with the new Mu system at first, every battle actually had a degree of balance. Lately however, I'd say roughly 80% of the matches Scotty plops me in are complete and utter blowouts...
I'm talking ambush OMS matches with my team cloned and 40+ remaining on the opposing team
Dominations where I seemed to only have blueberries fresh from the academy (average scores among teammates was a paltry 300-500wp and 6 kills vs an average 900-1000wp and 12 kills on the enemy side)
And Skirmishes in which at least 1/3 of my side didn't bother venturing out of the Redline, and the enemy held every single point (aside from the few moments I managed to get in a couple of hacks)
I mean, I still almost always finish in the top spot. And I am by no means a "Ringer". For that I suppose I should be grateful. But the level of enjoyment is spiraling downward as I am simply not getting more balanced games.
Is anyone else seeing anything like this? Almost as if, in some ways, the Mu is going backwards? This is the product of involving W/L ratio in the matchmaking system. The better it works the more it breaks itself by grouping everyone into the middle and leaving other factors to decide. It will not take long for matchmaking to go all the way back to its previous state thanks to everyone ending up with the same rough W/L ratio. According to CCP Rattati, the Mu doesn't only take into account the W/L ratio. It also accounts for the K/D ratio. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=175428&find=unreadQuote: When enough players have queued up, a battle is created and the Team Balancer goes to work. Units are created out of individual players and squads, and these Units have the Rank of "sum of Mu of Unit", where Mu is a paramater closely correlated to both W/L and K/D ratios.
Right but everyone ends up with similar W/L breaking the rest of the formula. |
valad II
NoGameNoLife
172
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Posted - 2014.10.02 06:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sick and tired of all the AFKing azzholes. |
CLONE OF MANY
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.10.02 06:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
valad II wrote:Sick and tired of all the AFKing azzholes.
They surely make a match off balance quickly.
SP should be all passive like Eve and 0 WP should mean 0 isk, then there would be no need for an AFK prevention system.
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
935
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Posted - 2014.10.02 11:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
perhaps they need to increase the Value of Mu when it comes to people in Squads but also be a multiplier based on how many are in the squad.
i too have felt what others have been feeling since delta's release and it just dosnt add up sometimes.. most of the time if im against a squad of the known pub stompers i just know its gonna be a bad time when i see just random blueberrys on my side too, but this is not 100% true either as i have been on a side where there was a full squad of 6 on our side and we got rolled by randoms.. either Mu isnt "working as intended"(since delta release) or their cumulative Mu value was soo low they just get shoved against randoms?
i definitely think something needs to be investigated about this issue
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 2 Forum Pariah
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
935
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Posted - 2014.10.02 11:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
CLONE OF MANY wrote:valad II wrote:Sick and tired of all the AFKing azzholes. They surely make a match off balance quickly. SP should be all passive like Eve and 0 WP should mean 0 isk, then there would be no need for an AFK prevention system. or collect names and report then for "afk" and "automated play" as ill assume they usesome programable USB keyboard attacked to their ps3 to "effectivly" farm isk while they sleep and then run proto during the day
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 2 Forum Pariah
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
5435
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Posted - 2014.10.02 12:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: NS isnt the first or last to pubstomp, or abuse mechanics. But, because most of them arent american, there hated the most. Racist much?
Nonsense. No other corp in the history of Uprising has pubstomped as consistently as NS. It has nothing to do with their ethnicity. It has everything to do with their track record.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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