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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
311
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Posted - 2014.09.19 00:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
due to buff after buff to av, its getting harder to tank, almost to the point to where we cower in the redline until our modules refill, then return to try to contribute a little bit to the effort then retreat to the redline once again. I hate playing like this it is so painfully damn boring.
I'm not asking to buff tanks in any way (besides bringing all the tanks/modules of old back), however what i propose is depots restoring the modules of the tank at a x2 rate for example if my hardener took 50s to refill, at a depot it would take 25s to refill.(excluding red line depots) and lowering the armor repair depots give tanks(excluding redline depots) to help limit tank spam / derp tanks
Right now as it is most tankers destroy depots to weaken av, this would give us a reason to let it live.
open for discussion
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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Atiim
12276
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Posted - 2014.09.19 02:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
You already have skills which both improve the uptime and downtime of Active Modules. If you want a lower downtime, you should invest SP into those skills.
Not only that, but a -50% Downtime will have devastating effects when combined with said skills, and this would effectively remove the "Wave of Opportunity" an AVer has against Vehicle Pilots. They have to wait their turn, so I fail to see why the Pilot shouldn't.
The only way for HAVs to re-supply without driving all the way to the redline is through Supply Depots, which is enough reason to allow them to live. If that's not enough, there's the fact that it takes about 4-5 reloads to kill a Supply Depot.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
311
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Posted - 2014.09.19 02:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:You already have skills which both improve the uptime and downtime of Active Modules. If you want a lower downtime, you should invest SP into those skills.
Not only that, but a -50% Downtime will have devastating effects when combined with said skills, and this would effectively remove the "Wave of Opportunity" an AVer has against Vehicle Pilots. They have to wait their turn, so I fail to see why the Pilot shouldn't.
The only way for HAVs to re-supply without driving all the way to the redline is through Supply Depots, which is enough reason to allow them to live. If that's not enough, there's the fact that it takes about 4-5 reloads to kill a Supply Depot.
50% downtime was just a fiqure put in place
certain map's depots are known to become av nest and are destroyed on sight.
only takes one reload on rail
one reload for missile w/o damage mod
no reload on blaster
tankers have to wait for av depot to be captured by friendlies it would be the same for av to have to wait
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
782
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Posted - 2014.09.19 02:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The only way for HAVs to re-supply without driving all the way to the redline is through Supply Depots, which is enough reason to allow them to live. If that's not enough, there's the fact that it takes about 4-5 reloads to kill a Supply Depot.
The only issue with vehicles/depots is access. Some maps/sockets have awfully placed depots or even no depots at all bar redline ones (if even that.)
Alt of Halla Murr.
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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
311
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Posted - 2014.09.19 02:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
also tankers don't need depots they can go to redline call in another and recall the no ammo tank
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
311
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Posted - 2014.09.19 02:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Atiim wrote:The only way for HAVs to re-supply without driving all the way to the redline is through Supply Depots, which is enough reason to allow them to live. If that's not enough, there's the fact that it takes about 4-5 reloads to kill a Supply Depot. The only issue with vehicles/depots is access. Some maps/sockets have awfully placed depots or even no depots at all bar redline ones (if even that.)
that too^, i've mastered the wall ride but most other tanks end up flipping trying to use this technique
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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Atiim
12277
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Posted - 2014.09.19 03:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:
The only issue with vehicles/depots is access. Some maps/sockets have awfully placed depots or even no depots at all bar redline ones (if even that.)
I agree that this is an issue, but the proposal in the OP in no way solves that issue.
iKILLu osborne wrote:
50% downtime was just a fiqure put in place
certain map's depots are known to become av nest and are destroyed on sight.
It could be -1%, and my point would still stand. There are already skills which decrease the downtime of Active Modules, and those looking to decrease their downtime should invest SP into it.
Feel free to destroy the Supply Depots if you wish, as you'd only be hurting Forge Gun users. Many Swarm Launcher users have Commandos, and carry a Swarm Launcher practically 24/7 (at least I do). Though honestly in the time it would take you to kill a Supply Depot, I could already swamp out to an AV suit.
But the assertion that Supply Depots are meaningless and are typically killed by HAV Pilots with ease is all the more reason towards increasing their eHP even further.
iKILLu osborne wrote:only takes one reload on rail
one reload for missile w/o damage mod
no reload on blaster
Let's see here...
- Supply Depot Total eHP (against Explosive): 15,025HP
- Supply Depot Total eHP (against Hybrid - Blaster): 18,750HP
- Supply Depot Total eHP (against Hybrid - Railgun): 16,250HP
Now with that in mind, let's look at the DPC of PRO Turrets.
- 80GJ Ion Cannon: 27,982HP
- 80GJ Particle Cannon: 16,965HP
- XT-201 Missile Launcher: 6474HP
It would appear as if you are indeed correct on the 80GJ Turrets. However, to say you're correct would be misleading, so I'll go into details.
The 80GJ Ion & Particle Cannons may have an excessive DPC, but they also have Heat Sinks which prevent you from firing off entire clips at one time. 80GJ Railguns, only allow you to fire 4 rounds in one clip, before overheating.
I unfortunately don't have exact numbers atm, as I don't have their sieze times committed to memory. However, I believe the seize time of the 80GJ Railgun is 5s. With that in mind, it'd take you 24.55s to destroy the Supply Depot with an 80GJ Particle Cannon. In that time, I would blow your tank to bits about 3 times over. 
I didn't jump on the FoTM wagon, so I don't know enough about 80GJ Blasters off-hand to comment on them. However, I can pretty much guarantee that the TTK is similar due to the fact that it also has a heat-sink.
But the assertion that Supply Depots are meaningless and are typically killed by HAV Pilots with ease is all the more reason towards increasing their eHP even further.
iKILLu osborne wrote:tankers have to wait for av depot to be captured by friendlies it would be the same for av to have to wait
First off, any tanker at any time may exit their vehicle to hack the Supply Depot with the same probability for succeeding as any other Infantry unit, actually more because you have a 3rd person camera, allowing you to see nearby threats from just about every angle. You only have to wait if you choose to wait.
Not only that, but this implies that the Supply Depot is only used once, and has to be re-hacked before each use, which is blatantly false. Anti-Vehicle users don't have the option to decrease the times before their optimal engagements, yet you want Pilots to have two ways of doing so?
How is that in any way balanced?
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Atiim
12277
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Posted - 2014.09.19 03:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
iKILLu osborne wrote:also tankers don't need depots they can go to redline call in another and recall the no ammo tank
You can also do the same when your modules are down, so this is a null point.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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TheEnd762
SVER True Blood
Public.Disorder.
635
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Posted - 2014.09.19 03:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Make vehicles that flee back to the redline blow up instantly, and award 50wp to the last player to damage them.
I sure wish I could Usain Bolt my clone back to the redline the second my shields were depleted.  |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1819
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Posted - 2014.09.19 03:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
When the major balancing attempts with vechicles began, and active modules became the tool to vehicle success, Devs clearly stated that vehicles were going to have windows of opportunity and windows of vulnerability. Your modules being down is your window of vulnerability. It seems to me that all is working as planned.
If you want to kill infantry might I suggest small turrets with gunners on comms. It works wonders.
Now with more evil.
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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
312
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Posted - 2014.09.19 07:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
@ atim
well put sir ,but my point was that tankers spend half the battle waiting for their modules to return, yes i know there are skills for it but there are many sp sinks in between and my sp is going towards armor reps atm.
in your first reply you said "4-5 RELOADS" quit changing your words
honestly before you comment again, i want you to log on to dust, build a tank fit, play 5 to 6 matches then comeback and tell us how your experience was.
my solution may not be perfect, but dear lord tankers are becoming instinct and if you deny that as a truth you obviously haven't been playing the game.
nerfs to tanks since 1.8
*rail range (slightly needed)
*blaster dispersion (needed)
*maximum turret height (not needed)
*armor rep (stacking penalty would've been better)
buffs to av
*swarm damage calculation fixed/nanite cost (needed)
*installation ehp buff (f'n op if used skillfully)
planned buffs to av
*swarm speed (needed for ads but hurts tankers)
planned nerfs to tanks
*fuel injector (why?honestly why)
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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iKILLu osborne
Z PLATOON CALDARI STATE PEACEMAKERS
312
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Posted - 2014.09.19 07:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
@mobius
yes your absolutely right the window of opportunity for av needs to be there, amatter fact it needs to be a constant as long as tankers has an effective counter, none exist in regards to large turrets.
I tried having squadmates gun for me before, it always resulted in them shooting at enemy tanks before i was in my blasters optimal range, firing like a mad man wasting ammo and giving our position away forcing me to have to return to a depot "no ammo bro", not getting out to hack a point, destroy a remote on me, kill av i can't hit (stupid height angle who's bright idea was that and to what purpose? so its easier to rooftop camp?) or so i can recall.
now i used to have a good gunner that always scoured over the map looking for enemy tanks/jihads and would call it out over comms, but sadly he has retired :(
"yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....."
fought scotty too but something went wrong
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Atiim
12287
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Posted - 2014.09.19 11:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
@iKILLu osborne
What build are you using that requires you to wait half the battle for your Modules to return? I'm running 2 Hardeners/1 Extender, and I still manage to do just fine without having to play the waiting game all day.
Though if you choose to invest SP into other skills, why should you be allowed to have the benifits of being invested into the skill anyways? Furthermore, why would people invest into this skill when they could just use a nearby Supply Depot?
You're right, I did mention 4-5 reloads. That still doesn't change the fact that what was said in my previous post was indeed true. You may only have to reload 0-1 times with the 80GJ Turrets, but due to their heat seizures you'd still be there for a very long period of time.
Unless the mechanics behind Operating an HAV have changed since last Sunday, I already have gotten in about 10+ matches with my Gunnlogi.
Installations are not Handheld Anti-Vehicle weapons, so that doesn't count as an AV buff. Bug fixes are nice, but they do not count as "buffs" to a class. The Swarm Launcher speed increase will also come with a nerf to tracking abilities, so doging Swarm Launchers will be even easier than before, which imo is a nerf.
Nerfs to Fuel Injectors are not buffs to Anti-Vehicle weapons. Tankers are becoming "extinct" because most of them realized how monotonous and boring the mechanics behind 1.7 iteration of vehicles are, along with the fact that they aren't OP, which means FoTM scrubblets are jumping into them.
Your proposition solves none of that, while creating an imbalance between the optimal engagement (and disengagement) times of an AVer against a Pilot.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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