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Scar Scrilla
417
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Posted - 2014.09.16 14:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
A questions to all the proto level mathematicians:
Can a proto Amarr Scout with two complex damps "see" every hardcore dampened gal/cal scout with cloaks on? I want to skill my Amarr scout to proto and ask myself wether it's woth it or not, even more so as I already got cal/gal scout both at proto level.
Thanks, o7
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
" ... or grab a shotgun and REs." - UN1TE
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
4112
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Posted - 2014.09.16 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. All what is needed on caldari/gallente scouts to avoid the amarr scout scans are 2 profile damps. And you wont be aible to see them ever. And thats the reason why amarr scouts are a waste of time to spec into.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1514
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Posted - 2014.09.16 17:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Scar Scrilla wrote:
Can a proto Amarr Scout with two complex damps "see" every hardcore dampened gal/cal scout with cloaks on? I want to skill my Amarr scout to proto and ask myself wether it's woth it or not, even more so as I already got cal/gal scout both at proto level.
In short, there's nothing you can do in an Amarr suit that will allow you to "see every hardcore dampened gal/cal scout with cloaks on". In a bit more detail....
No, the Amarr Scout has a max passive scan of 17.85dB with 2 precision ehnancers. The next closest scout is the Cal Scout @ 19.89 with four, and all scouts can dampen enough to get past it. Interestingly enough, the same can be said for the best active scanner -- Gal Logi @ 15dB -- but it takes some of the scouts more low slots (i.e. dampeners) to do it.
The Amarr Scout's passive scans (@ 17.85) are overcome by the following suits: Amarr Scout w/3 profile dampeners (or 2 with an enabled advanced or proto cloak), Caldari Scout w/2 profile dampeners (with and without cloak), Gallente Scout w/2 profile dampeners (with and without cloak), and a Minmatar Scout with w/3 profile dampeners (or 2 with an enabled advanced or proto cloak).
All of the above assumes max applicable skills and protype dropsuit modules.
Here's a table for your perusal that explains it in a bit more detail: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B27NTsVHhvR9akFXSUp6VDh3c0k/edit?usp=sharing
Basically, you're screwed. Best you can do is force a scout to run more dampeners...which has advantages as they will be easier to kill, but really will do nothing to beat them in EWAR, which is not possible (and because the Gal Scout can do so with 2 lows free, this becomes a source of imbalance, IMO).
Hope this helps...Leadfoot |
Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2069
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Posted - 2014.09.16 17:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
What Leadfoot says is true, but that doesn't mean it's worthless.
Many scouts in Pubs don't dampen their suits efficiently, if at all. I've even seen my brother's Gal scout scan enemy scouts. And even if they do dampen, most scouts have to seriously gimp their fitting to dodge you, so that can benefit your team as well.
Dust was real! I was there!
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
4113
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Posted - 2014.09.16 18:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:What Leadfoot says is true, but that doesn't mean it's worthless. Many scouts in Pubs don't dampen their suits efficiently, if at all. I've even seen my brother's Gal scout scan enemy scouts. And even if they do dampen, most scouts have to seriously gimp their fitting to dodge you, so that can benefit your team as well. EDIT: Also, use www.protofits.com to theory craft your fitting and level progression.
For competetive play you better get a gallente logi with active scanners cause that is harder to avoid. But allmost nobody uses that basically means that the caldari scout runs around rampant with ridicoulus scan range and cant be detected while still maintaining all of its main taking slots (4 high slots).
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1515
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Posted - 2014.09.16 18:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:What Leadfoot says is true, but that doesn't mean it's worthless. Many scouts in Pubs don't dampen their suits efficiently, if at all. I've even seen my brother's Gal scout scan enemy scouts. And even if they do dampen, most scouts have to seriously gimp their fitting to dodge you, so that can benefit your team as well. EDIT: Also, use www.protofits.com to theory craft your fitting and level progression. For competetive play you better get a gallente logi with active scanners cause that is harder to avoid. But allmost nobody uses that basically means that the caldari scout runs around rampant with ridicoulus scan range and cant be detected while still maintaining all of its main taking slots (4 high slots).
The Gal Logi is an alternative, but it's ultimately not enough, and it has drawbacks in the scanned know instantly what's being used (and how to get past it) as well as the fact that it has only a partial view angle and is limited in time.
Personally, I prefer to start with a Amarr/Cal scout and its 360 degree and always-on passives -- as the scouts aren't immediately on the alert. Once they're on to me (or if they're already dampened), I'll often go to a Gal Logi. But then every scout know's what's up (the "You've been scanned" tips them off) and exactly how to get past it.
And FWIW, I've seen an uptick in Gal Logi scanners in PCs...but I'm not sure I agree with the "you better get" part, as nothing can scan a well dampened scout. Your only hope is they dampen up and lose some tank in the process. |
Scar Scrilla
418
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Posted - 2014.09.16 18:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the replies guys, I'll stick with my proto cal/gal scouts which I make rather good results with then. Of course always dampened and with prec enhancers. Gal for shotty and Cal for Rail Rifle. Actually I wanted to take all the racial scouts to proto, but the SP I wanted to put into Amarr scout will be put into Proto Amarr sentinel instead then ;)
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
" ... or grab a shotgun and REs." - UN1TE
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Luna McDuffing
COALICION LATINA
Top Men.
33
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Posted - 2014.09.16 19:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Also, the amar scout is very ugly. That is the nail in the coffin for me. That being said I met a guy the other day who uses it and he kills 25 on a PC with it sooo.... |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9410
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Posted - 2014.09.16 19:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
I remember speccing into the Amarr scout to maximum but only for the stamina bonuses which were the only bonuses to the Amarr scout at the time before it got buffed with the precision bonus.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Arcturis Vanguard
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
309
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Posted - 2014.09.16 19:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
I use the amarr scout solely as a runner for PCs. With their scans, you can easily see where other scouts are coming from as they are built for speed not ewar in the opening minutes. So no it's not a complete waste of sp for specific roles when needed.
Amarr Heavy V
Amarr Assault V
Caldari Scout V
Caldari logistic IV
Prof V HMG & FORGE
Prof IV CR, SMG
Prof III ScR
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
4148
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Posted - 2014.09.16 19:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
No.
All scouts can beat all scans if making enough sacrifice, not only cal and gal scouts, but also Amarr and Minmatar when either suit is wearing 2 Complex Damps with an active proto cloak.
What Amarr do is force the other scouts to have to Dampen instead of using other mods by maxing their precision.
They also catch any scouts who do not take dampening seriously.
My main suit is an M-1 with no dampening, and when I see or get killed by an Amarr scout, I immediately switch to my M/1 with the 2 damps and proto cloak.
Seeing that suit makes me have to make a greater ISK and fitting sacrifice than I normally would. It will catch any scouts that don't know how to do anything other than tank.
You can always tell a Millford Minja
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Joel II X
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
3444
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Posted - 2014.09.16 22:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:What Leadfoot says is true, but that doesn't mean it's worthless. Many scouts in Pubs don't dampen their suits efficiently, if at all. I've even seen my brother's Gal scout scan enemy scouts. And even if they do dampen, most scouts have to seriously gimp their fitting to dodge you, so that can benefit your team as well. EDIT: Also, use www.protofits.com to theory craft your fitting and level progression. For competetive play you better get a gallente logi with active scanners cause that is harder to avoid. But allmost nobody uses that basically means that the caldari scout runs around rampant with ridicoulus scan range and cant be detected while still maintaining all of its main taking slots (4 high slots).
+10% Scan range per level is insane.
CCP favoritism at its finest. |
Louis Domi
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
661
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Posted - 2014.09.16 23:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
I still use my full ewar C scout(range in lows, amps in highs) I still see most every scout... got less than 250 ehp but I can go on 15+ kill streaks. Also I never see ewar amarr scouts. Whenever I see them they are always dual tanking with their cocky cone headed selves, take them down like scrub they are. Gal/ Cal are the only real threat since the ones I play against actually use damp mods. Minmatar are just speedy target practice.(Not all minmatar are target practice... But a good majority are and they make me laugh) |
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