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Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.13 03:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Scouts have strong EWAR!
Heavies have too much health and DPS!
Assaults are too versatile!
Logistics get too many wp for doing nothing but support their team!
AV can actually kill things!
NNNNEEEERRRFFFF |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.13 14:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:I'm sorry, but I was under the impression that the Scout GK.0 was the "do everything except wield an HMG/FG" suit in the game. Correct me if I'm wrong. It used to be, until our dampning got nerfed.
I would recommend the Ak.0 over the Gk.0, now. |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.13 14:50:00 -
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John Demonsbane wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:>implying that the assault suit is most versatile when the scout can do the exact same things an assault and logi does
IKR? More slots, and they're the middle ground so yes. They're more versatile than a scout |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.13 16:10:00 -
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Nothing Certain wrote:Joel II X wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:>implying that the assault suit is most versatile when the scout can do the exact same things an assault and logi does
IKR? More slots, and they're the middle ground so yes. They're more versatile than a scout More versatile but still not as powerful as scouts because of how powerful both Ewar and cloaks are. The problem is that both things convey great advantage and are limited, in a practical sense, to scouts. There are a lot of cries of OP and cries for nerfing, some are just butthurt and some are justified. It is as silly to moan and cry about the complaints about imbalance as it is to make the actual unjustified complaint itself. Of course they're not as powerful as scouts when it comes to the scouts' roles. That's the point.
Scouts can stack health, but not as much as an Assault can, same as how an Assault can run ewar mods, but not compete against an ewar scout.
I can play as every role relatively well. I do better with scouts because that's the first role I've specced into when I got this game. For me, playing as Assault is easier than a Sentinel or Commando simply because of their speed difference. However, not everyone will think that way (proven by the fact of heavy QQ). |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.13 22:19:00 -
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gustavo acosta wrote:Joel II X wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:>implying that the assault suit is most versatile when the scout can do the exact same things an assault and logi does
IKR? More slots, and they're the middle ground so yes. They're more versatile than a scout Oh my god you're right, my assault can HP stack, speed stack, regen stack, damage mod stack, E-war, and even bio-tics stack. Oh wait my scout can do all that too. My assault can run as a logi though, oh wait, no it can't. The scout can't be a logi right? Oh wait, yes it can... But my scout can't be effective as my assault at all those roles right? Oh wait, yes they can... huh...How is the scout not OP again?... A scout can't hp stack as much as an assault. An assault get up to scout speeds, regen as quick, and all the rest of its a dedicated build.
A scout BY DEFAULT is supposed to be faster and have stronger ewar. If it plays by its strength, of course a mimic won't be able to compete in its ground. It's not supposed to. However, when a scout tries to hp stack, an assault can do it better and fit a better gun while they're at it.
As for a scout being a better logi, i don't know. It's like a jack of all trades in that sense. Each race can use their racial equipment better than any scout, so there's that.
Modules can help frames mimic one another, but ultimately, if one frame is supposed to be used in one way and the other on another, fact is: A will never beat B in A's territory.
Scouts can be pretty lethal and versatile in terms of combat potential, but with the amount of an Assault's slots, the decrease in fitting requirements for weapons, I'd say it's the most versatile suit in the game (also, it's the middleman, so yeah). |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.14 14:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:Joel II X wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:Joel II X wrote:More slots, and they're the middle ground so yes. They're more versatile than a scout Oh my god you're right, my assault can HP stack, speed stack, regen stack, damage mod stack, E-war, and even bio-tics stack. Oh wait my scout can do all that too. My assault can run as a logi though, oh wait, no it can't. The scout can't be a logi right? Oh wait, yes it can... But my scout can't be effective as my assault at all those roles right? Oh wait, yes they can... huh...How is the scout not OP again?... A scout can't hp stack as much as an assault. An assault get up to scout speeds, regen as quick, and all the rest of its a dedicated build. A scout BY DEFAULT is supposed to be faster and have stronger ewar. If it plays by its strength, of course a mimic won't be able to compete in its ground. It's not supposed to. However, when a scout tries to hp stack, an assault can do it better and fit a better gun while they're at it. As for a scout being a better logi, i don't know. It's like a jack of all trades in that sense. Each race can use their racial equipment better than any scout, so there's that. Modules can help frames mimic one another, but ultimately, if one frame is supposed to be used in one way and the other on another, fact is: A will never beat B in A's territory. Scouts can be pretty lethal and versatile in terms of combat potential, but with the amount of an Assault's slots, the decrease in fitting requirements for weapons, I'd say it's the most versatile suit in the game (also, it's the middleman, so yeah). ver-+sa-+tile -êv+Örs+Ötl/Submit adjective 1. able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities. I'm an assault and I can't run the E-war, or Logi role, but scouts can do each role at almost the same level as logis and assault because of their great base stats...I must be very versatile as an assault... I know what versatile means, and you CAN run an ewar fit if you choose to. You just won't be as good as a scout, since that's their role. While scouts can have two equipments, logis can have up to 4, and use them better than a scout can, so they won't be a better logi because that's not their intended role.
Get it through your thick head. Assaults can run any fit they choose (speed, health, ewar), but they won't be better at it then the suit that's actually meant to, and they shouldn't be. That's the whole point. Only role the assaults can't take up is the logistics since they only have 1 equipment. If you stopped looking at scouts to throw all the blame, perhaps you'd see the bigger picture. Scouts got their needed buffs after 1.8. Why do you think nobody used them before that (except a few handful including myself)?
Also, if you can't be versatile as an Assault, you're just bad. I can run them just fine in any shape, way, or form I choose. |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.14 14:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Joel II X wrote:Scouts have strong EWAR!
Heavies have too much health and DPS!
Assaults are too versatile!
Logistics get too many wp for doing nothing but support their team!
AV can actually kill things!
NNNNEEEERRRFFFF scouts cannot be scanned unless you use spesific suit+focused scanner even with out that they cannot be seen on tacnet while having assault hp. heavys are long range fodder. assaults need a second equipment slot to be "versatile" with out logi a team crumbles and has no chance to win AV will have an easier time driving off ADS in delta. LAV and HAV can still duck behind walls But AV can ACTUALLY kill things. Ever tried teamwork?
Assaults have their logi counterpart. Other than that, they're versatile (if not THE most versatile suit in the game).
Scouts can be passively scanned by a medium if they fit it with the correct number of tiered modules. To try to mimic the scouts' ewar abilities one must give up something since it is not their intended role.
Heavies include commando, which do not suffer from a loss of range, and even then, heavies are able to equip light weapons (not recommended). |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.15 15:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:>implying that the assault suit is most versatile when the scout can do the exact same things an assault and logi does
IKR? Except have higher damage values and more health, and the ability to stand toe to toe with any class in the game. Can run Speed, Tank, Damage, Ewar.. A Scout can give up being a scout and be a considerably lesser version of an Assault or a Logi... For some that is close enough for it being better then the role it is trying to imitate. For everyone else this is amusing concept and surreal. It's like saying a Logi or an Assault can run a EWAR fit and not have it as effective as a scout.. But it's close enough so they are OP! It's mind numbing and would take a person completely fixed on themselves to believe it. This person gets it. |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.15 16:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bax Zanith wrote:Joel II X wrote: I know what versatile means, and you CAN run an ewar fit if you choose to. You just won't be as good as a scout, since that's their role. While scouts can have two equipments, logis can have up to 4, and use them better than a scout can, so they won't be a better logi because that's not their intended role.
Get it through your thick head. Assaults can run any fit they choose (speed, health, ewar), but they won't be better at it then the suit that's actually meant to, and they shouldn't be. That's the whole point. Only role the assaults can't take up is the logistics since they only have 1 equipment. If you stopped looking at scouts to throw all the blame, perhaps you'd see the bigger picture. Scouts got their needed buffs after 1.8. Why do you think nobody used them before that (except a few handful including myself)?
Also, if you can't be versatile as an Assault, you're just bad. I can run them just fine in any shape, way, or form I choose.
Okay, so we've established that scouts are for stealth and scanning, so what are assaults for? Good question. Since the very core mechanic of any FPS is to shoot and ultimately kill the enemy, it would seem the point of having a class that does only that, pretty pointless. However, the assault is meant to "kill dudes" more effectively than any other role with the advantage of higher health, regeneration, and speed than their light or heavy counterparts. In fact, they have the fitting reduction skill to weapons so they can have an even easier time doing so.
That's why you can fit a prototype weapon relatively easy on a STD suit without gimping the fit much.
Also, versatility and all that jazz thanks to the number of slots they possess. |
Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.15 16:24:00 -
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Bax Zanith wrote:Joel II X wrote:Bax Zanith wrote:Joel II X wrote: I know what versatile means, and you CAN run an ewar fit if you choose to. You just won't be as good as a scout, since that's their role. While scouts can have two equipments, logis can have up to 4, and use them better than a scout can, so they won't be a better logi because that's not their intended role.
Get it through your thick head. Assaults can run any fit they choose (speed, health, ewar), but they won't be better at it then the suit that's actually meant to, and they shouldn't be. That's the whole point. Only role the assaults can't take up is the logistics since they only have 1 equipment. If you stopped looking at scouts to throw all the blame, perhaps you'd see the bigger picture. Scouts got their needed buffs after 1.8. Why do you think nobody used them before that (except a few handful including myself)?
Also, if you can't be versatile as an Assault, you're just bad. I can run them just fine in any shape, way, or form I choose.
Okay, so we've established that scouts are for stealth and scanning, so what are assaults for? Good question. Since the very core mechanic of any FPS is to shoot and ultimately kill the enemy, it would seem the point of having a class that does only that, pretty pointless. However, the assault is meant to "kill dudes" more effectively than any other role with the advantage of higher health, regeneration, and speed than their light or heavy counterparts. In fact, they have the fitting reduction skill to weapons so they can have an even easier time doing so. That's why you can fit a prototype weapon relatively easy on a STD suit without gimping the fit much. Also, versatility and all that jazz thanks to the number of slots they possess. Havies are more effective at killing than assaults, plus they easily have far more HP than the assault, so that can't be what the assault is for. Regeneration is about the same for the classes. And speed? That's the scout's area. Extra slots don't matter when I can go with a suit with higher base stats for lack of health. You're missing the point. They don't have to choose between any of those three qualities.
They have more health than a scout.
They have more fire power at earlier tiers (except heavy burst). You may say how a heavy can use any hmg, but assaults can and will melt heavies from a further distance.
Assaults are faster than a heavy. Also, extra slots DO matter. Ever tried playing as a commando before 1.8? Why do you think only 5 people did? They had no slots. Now, more people ate open to using the Commando as a viable suit.
The assault can kill a dude at objective A, and then move on to B without the need for an LAV or sprint at 3m/s. They are the most effective at killing in a large area, but the heavy is used to focus all that fire power in a tight closed space to defend a point. |
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Joel II X
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Posted - 2014.09.15 17:41:00 -
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Bax Zanith wrote:Joel II X wrote: You're missing the point. They don't have to choose between any of those three qualities.
They have more health than a scout.
They have more fire power at earlier tiers (except heavy burst). You may say how a heavy can use any hmg, but assaults can and will melt heavies from a further distance.
Assaults are faster than a heavy. Also, extra slots DO matter. Ever tried playing as a commando before 1.8? Why do you think only 5 people did? They had no slots. Now, more people ate open to using the Commando as a viable suit.
The assault can kill a dude at objective A, and then move on to B without the need for an LAV or sprint at 3m/s. They are the most effective at killing in a large area, but the heavy is used to focus all that fire power in a tight closed space to defend a point.
But even with those extra slots, the scout is the better choice. If I were to fit nothing but kin kats (or witch ever one effects speed) on an assault, a scout would still be faster if I did the same thing to it. Scouts can also kill a dued at objective A, then move to B at a much faster rate then the assault. Plus unlike the assault, the hacker would never see the scout comming. Scouts are able to kill heavies just as effective as assaults, because they both have access to the same weapons. Actually I'm wrong, the scout's speed combined with a shotgun makes it the better choice for killing a heavy. So far I see no reason why I would want to use an assault suit over a scout suit. If both a scout and an assault were to fit kincats, of course the scout would be better. That's their specialty. How many times have I mentioned this in the thread?
And yes, a scout can kill, but if you only speed tank, you'll be having less health and might not be able to stand a chance against other players. The scout suffers when it comes to multiple engagements all at once, while the assault can handle it better.
Also, an assault can go toe to toe even better than a scout because of their higher health and at their own optimal (assuming the assault is using their racial rifle). While a scout with a shotgun has an optimal of 4m. If you get caught, you're dead.
Assaults and scouts each have their own niche. The scouts are stealth and speed and the assaults can kill easier than any other role in their intended places. If you're an assault trying to kill a heavy within 5m, you're doing something wrong (unless you're using a shotgun). |
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