DUST Search - Public Tank Teamkill Issue

Rusty Shallows wrote:

MarasdF Loron wrote:

Rusty Shallows wrote:

xavier zor wrote:

It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide'

snip

Please for the love of God do not run with explosives in a Friendly Fire environment. Even in Skirmish/Dom pubs I've seen careless fire set off red REs blowing up friendlies.

That PSA aside ever since HAVs have had a speed boost the TCs have gotten progressively worse at driving. Once upon a time I could lay the blame for every collision on my LAV driving. Now that HAVs can zip around many of them have gone full dingleberry. It wouldn't be as bad if LAVs had the same proportional increase in mobility.

My advice is just do your business elsewhere. Preferably in cover from any brass ball snipers circling the map.

If there were any quick reforms that needed to be made then WP penalties in all game modes for FF.

And what about those LAV drivers that crash into me exploding when I've been standing perfectly still for the past minute or so? Should I still be penalized for that? Lol.

When someone ran across the street in a Faction War mission and I road-killed them it costs them a suit and me WPs. Universal rules are more important than a patchwork mess.

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xavier zor KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 40	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:43:00 - [1] - Quote It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide' I tried again, and slowly parked my saga next to the supply depot. Then a friendly tank backs into me and kills me! 'xavior zor committed suicide' This feature should be removed when both vehicles are on the SAME TEAMCCP next hotfix e.g update DELTA this should be implemented! I have had a few incidents where while I was waiting for a friendly to hop in my vehicle, someone called a tank down and it landed on me. Other times I called a LAV down, then 4 people run into it with a dropship hahahaha Magsec SMGs + Nova Knives + Caldari Scout! SCREW THE CLOAK
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 693	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:51:00 - [2] - Quote Maybe the events are connected. I have no sympathy. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Michael Arck 5475	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:52:00 - [3] - Quote I remembered I turn the corner and a friendly tank was right there. I exploded as soon as I hit it and I laughed. The tank kept on going with no fucks given. Now I'm scarred, driving around friendly tanks real slow like I'm skating on thin ice Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
xavier zor KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 40	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:53:00 - [4] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Maybe the events are connected. I have no sympathy. I committed suicide twice, that makes no sense Magsec SMGs + Nova Knives + Caldari Scout! SCREW THE CLOAK
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1034	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:55:00 - [5] - Quote No, this feature should remain and tank ramming should be returned too, it's ridiculous that tanks climb on top of each other. What needs to be fixed is shield vehicle collision dmg, armor LAV doesn't instantly blow up on the crash, shield LAV will instantly blow up on the slightest tap. When they fix shield vehicle collision dmg it's not going to be so much of an issue anymore that you take damage from collision, you don't instantly blow up anymore. But there needs to be an incentive for people to watch where they are driving, I have no sympathy for any LAV driver that gets killed in a crash, they've so many times come around corner and crashed into me leading to my death or letting the enemy HAV get away, or both. And I'm talking about friendly LAVs here, enemy LAVs are just fine if they do that, but friendly.. watch your fraking radar.
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 25	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:56:00 - [6] - Quote Well its good for laughs when like when the entire team spawns dropships to fly up to the objective and drop uplinks and a tank I called in crushes 2 of them.
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 25	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:57:00 - [7] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: No, this feature should remain and tank ramming should be returned too, it's ridiculous that tanks climb on top of each other. But how will tanks reproduce if they explode when they try to love each other?
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1374	Posted - 2014.09.10 01:59:00 - [8] - Quote Nah, leave things alone. It is not our fault that you took so long to discover something that almost everyone else has already known. BTW, this has been true in various forms since the first Beta. Three releases before Chromosome, IIRC. This is how it has been. This is how it will be. If it requires a client side update there is no possibility of a fix. In New Eden no SP is wisely spent. CCP will Nerf the reason right out from under you.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1034	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:00:00 - [9] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I remembered I turn the corner and a friendly tank was right there. I exploded as soon as I hit it and I laughed. The tank kept on going with no fucks given. Now I'm scarred, driving around friendly tanks real slow like I'm skating on thin ice If I drive in an LAV, I drive around friendly tanks like I would drive anywhere else, carefully, I don't know why LAV drivers have the mentality that I can drive however I want I don't have to watch where I'm going, I can drive anywhere because lol at worst I'll just flip and then hop out and flip the LAV back up again. It's the careless driving mentality that LAV drivers have that most of the time gets them and their friendlies killed.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1034	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:01:00 - [10] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: No, this feature should remain and tank ramming should be returned too, it's ridiculous that tanks climb on top of each other. But how will tanks reproduce if they explode when they try to love each other? Two words: artificial insemination.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1178	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:18:00 - [11] - Quote xavier zor wrote: This feature should be removed when both vehicles are on the SAME TEAMCCP next hotfix e.g update DELTA this should be implemented! I'm glad that happened to you and they shouldn't remove it because it's the chance that your taking strapping up RE's , just like recalling vehicles ... if someone swipes it then it's that persons fault because they were not aware of their surroundings and that's the chance you take . If they have FF killings and crews that do so then they should keep vehicle damage . It creates battlefield awareness . Nothing more goofy looking then when vehicles drive over each other , I would rather that they have damage while doing so . Bump into a wall and it should be damage from that wall , same for flying . There should be more vehicle damage instead of vehicles driving over each other . I hope I see you on the field , I'm going to ram you myself and enjoy it . Buck up kid and use your awareness . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1376	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:37:00 - [12] - Quote The OP seems to have missed the mark here. In Dust the problem for the longest time was poor physics in the game. Okay, really, really horrible physics in the game. Drive over a 4" curb in a LAV at the slowest speed you could manage? Result was three meters in the air. Seriously the LAV was likely to explode on the way down as well. Shield tanks that constantly exploded because they ran over anything. Rough terrain, infantry, LAVs, tanks and buildings. Nearly everything was suicide to touch if your vehicle was shield based. It isn't that now, or not as bad, because someone finally fixed it. But what you described. Sucka that LAV is toast and if you are in it, that looks like suicide. Stop doing that. It'll kill ya. Try that in FW. Then they can shoot at you from a safe distance and not have to waste a tank. In New Eden no SP is wisely spent. CCP will Nerf the reason right out from under you.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2137	Posted - 2014.09.10 02:56:00 - [13] - Quote xavier zor wrote: It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide' snip Please for the love of God do not run with explosives in a Friendly Fire environment. Even in Skirmish/Dom pubs I've seen careless fire set off red REs blowing up friendlies. That PSA aside ever since HAVs have had a speed boost the TCs have gotten progressively worse at driving. Once upon a time I could lay the blame for every collision on my LAV driving. Now that HAVs can zip around many of them have gone full dingleberry. It wouldn't be as bad if LAVs had the same proportional increase in mobility. My advice is just do your business elsewhere. Preferably in cover from any brass ball snipers circling the map. If there were any quick reforms that needed to be made then WP penalties in all game modes for FF. Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.09.10 03:00:00 - [14] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: xavier zor wrote: It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide' snip Please for the love of God do not run with explosives in a Friendly Fire environment. Even in Skirmish/Dom pubs I've seen careless fire set off red REs blowing up friendlies. That PSA aside ever since HAVs have had a speed boost the TCs have gotten progressively worse at driving. Once upon a time I could lay the blame for every collision on my LAV driving. Now that HAVs can zip around many of them have gone full dingleberry. It wouldn't be as bad if LAVs had the same proportional increase in mobility. My advice is just do your business elsewhere. Preferably in cover from any brass ball snipers circling the map. If there were any quick reforms that needed to be made then WP penalties in all game modes for FF. And what about those LAV drivers that crash into me exploding when I've been standing perfectly still for the past minute or so? Should I still be penalized for that? Lol.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2137	Posted - 2014.09.10 03:54:00 - [15] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: xavier zor wrote: It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide' snip Please for the love of God do not run with explosives in a Friendly Fire environment. Even in Skirmish/Dom pubs I've seen careless fire set off red REs blowing up friendlies. That PSA aside ever since HAVs have had a speed boost the TCs have gotten progressively worse at driving. Once upon a time I could lay the blame for every collision on my LAV driving. Now that HAVs can zip around many of them have gone full dingleberry. It wouldn't be as bad if LAVs had the same proportional increase in mobility. My advice is just do your business elsewhere. Preferably in cover from any brass ball snipers circling the map. If there were any quick reforms that needed to be made then WP penalties in all game modes for FF. And what about those LAV drivers that crash into me exploding when I've been standing perfectly still for the past minute or so? Should I still be penalized for that? Lol. When someone ran across the street in a Faction War mission and I road-killed them it costs them a suit and me WPs. Universal rules are more important than a patchwork mess. Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:01:00 - [16] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: xavier zor wrote: It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide' snip Please for the love of God do not run with explosives in a Friendly Fire environment. Even in Skirmish/Dom pubs I've seen careless fire set off red REs blowing up friendlies. That PSA aside ever since HAVs have had a speed boost the TCs have gotten progressively worse at driving. Once upon a time I could lay the blame for every collision on my LAV driving. Now that HAVs can zip around many of them have gone full dingleberry. It wouldn't be as bad if LAVs had the same proportional increase in mobility. My advice is just do your business elsewhere. Preferably in cover from any brass ball snipers circling the map. If there were any quick reforms that needed to be made then WP penalties in all game modes for FF. And what about those LAV drivers that crash into me exploding when I've been standing perfectly still for the past minute or so? Should I still be penalized for that? Lol. When someone ran across the street in a Faction War mission and I road-killed them it costs them a suit and me WPs. Universal rules are more important than a patchwork mess. I'm talking about the problem that his would create, people would start griefing tankers just for the lols to reduce their WP. Because if friendly LAV rams you and you get -50 WP for that, it's a little bit stupid.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2137	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:04:00 - [17] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: I'm talking about the problem that his would create, people would start griefing tankers just for the lols to reduce their WP. Because if friendly LAV rams you and you get -50 WP for that, it's a little bit stupid. Fair enough, what about the HAVs griefing LAVs? Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 234	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:07:00 - [18] - Quote I thought this was going to be a thread talking about running over cloaked bluedot scouts in fw.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3121	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:29:00 - [19] - Quote Jihad jeep activists tell us we hear the LAV coming for miles and that it's our fault we didn't stop it. So we have decided to destroy all LAVs friendly or enemy that way we can always assume it's enemy and a threat. You a direct cause of your own problem. Tanker/Logi/Assault
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2137	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:37:00 - [20] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Jihad jeep activists tell us we hear the LAV coming for miles and that it's our fault we didn't stop it. So we have decided to destroy all LAVs friendly or enemy that way we can always assume it's enemy and a threat. You a direct cause of your own problem. Please don't come to the forums complaining if CCP actually fixes the problem in a way you don't like. Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game

gustavo acosta Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 243	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:40:00 - [21] - Quote I don't know nuthin bout no HAVs griefing jihad jeeps in public matches, however I have a friend who's a dedicated tanker and he would stop jihad jeeps on his own team from reaching the battlefield. Needless to say, my friend is a dumb troll who doesn't understand how much it helps him to have a friendly jihad jeep going after the enemy tanks. Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
IMMORTAL WAR HERO NECROM0NGERS 207	Posted - 2014.09.10 04:54:00 - [22] - Quote xavier zor wrote: It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide' I tried again, and slowly parked my saga next to the supply depot. Then a friendly tank backs into me and kills me! 'xavior zor committed suicide' This feature should be removed when both vehicles are on the SAME TEAMCCP next hotfix e.g update DELTA this should be implemented! I have had a few incidents where while I was waiting for a friendly to hop in my vehicle, someone called a tank down and it landed on me. Other times I called a LAV down, then 4 people run into it with a dropship hahahaha try pythons rammed by lavs or tanks rofl lol Frowned upon by amateurs: The object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his. GSP
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:24:00 - [23] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: I'm talking about the problem that his would create, people would start griefing tankers just for the lols to reduce their WP. Because if friendly LAV rams you and you get -50 WP for that, it's a little bit stupid. Fair enough, what about the HAVs griefing LAVs? I already said they need to fix shield vehicle collision damage further. This already isn't a problem towards armor LAVs, it's hard to get those to blow up instantly. Even if you try. And HAVs need to start taking damage from ramming each other too, because you need to have some incentive to watch where you're going and how you are driving. It can be used as a tactic, ramming those who are on low health. Right now HAVs climb on top of each other which is incredibly stupid, it's so stupid that it's being used to avoid dying. When you know you are losing a fight you just climb on top of the enemy tank. Lol.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:26:00 - [24] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Jihad jeep activists tell us we hear the LAV coming for miles and that it's our fault we didn't stop it. So we have decided to destroy all LAVs friendly or enemy that way we can always assume it's enemy and a threat. You a direct cause of your own problem. Please don't come to the forums complaining if CCP actually fixes the problem in a way you don't like. I agree with Benjamin here and I don't see it as a problem. It doesn't need to get fixed, JLAVs need to stay. But you, the community, have made it into a problem for yourself, yes, we blow up all the LAVs because it could be a threat to us. Even if it isn't, but it could be. An instagib threat.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:27:00 - [25] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: I don't know nuthin bout no HAVs griefing jihad jeeps in public matches, however I have a friend who's a dedicated tanker and he would stop jihad jeeps on his own team from reaching the battlefield. Needless to say, my friend is a dumb troll who doesn't understand how much it helps him to have a friendly jihad jeep going after the enemy tanks. It maybe helps him but maybe he wants to give the enemy a fair fighting chance?
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2138	Posted - 2014.09.10 05:33:00 - [26] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: I don't know nuthin bout no HAVs griefing jihad jeeps in public matches, however I have a friend who's a dedicated tanker and he would stop jihad jeeps on his own team from reaching the battlefield. Needless to say, my friend is a dumb troll who doesn't understand how much it helps him to have a friendly jihad jeep going after the enemy tanks. It maybe helps him but maybe he wants to give the enemy a fair fighting chance? Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one. Gustavo is spot on. Pretend that kind of griefing is fine in Pubs is almost guaranteed to get a nerfing instead of a fix. Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game
TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn Going for the gold 140	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:02:00 - [27] - Quote I called in an Incubus in a hurry, and took off so fast i crashed into the RDV that deployed it and died... 32 kills with militia shotgun. OP? naaaaaah
Joel II X Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3342	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:11:00 - [28] - Quote When that happens, grab a Soma, a Starter Fit of your choosing, and ram him. You will not kill him, but you'll become a house of cards and annoy him. Just keep doing so until the end of the match.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2140	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:20:00 - [29] - Quote TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn wrote: I called in an Incubus in a hurry, and took off so fast i crashed into the RDV that deployed it and died... Just yesterday in the last match nearing downtime my squad leader tried calling in his ADS at the ground spawn, his RDV took out another friendly Dropships, it had landed on some structure above me. It was burning and I tried to rep it but it exploded before the lock-on could be established. So my squad lead jumps in his ADS and it is almost rammed by two other inbound RDVs with Dropships. Suffice to say I was reluctant to stay on board. Then again the guy is good, he'll dip into the redline to kill snipers and always escape within the last two seconds. Every time he did it I swore we were going to die. Frankly I think all of you pilots have gone crazy. Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD Sweets for everyone! Forums > Game
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:37:00 - [30] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: I don't know nuthin bout no HAVs griefing jihad jeeps in public matches, however I have a friend who's a dedicated tanker and he would stop jihad jeeps on his own team from reaching the battlefield. Needless to say, my friend is a dumb troll who doesn't understand how much it helps him to have a friendly jihad jeep going after the enemy tanks. It maybe helps him but maybe he wants to give the enemy a fair fighting chance? Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one. Gustavo is spot on. Pretend that kind of griefing is fine in Pubs is almost guaranteed to get a nerfing instead of a fix. What fix are you referring to?

MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.09.10 06:38:00 - [31] - Quote Joel II X wrote: When that happens, grab a Soma, a Starter Fit of your choosing, and ram him. You will not kill him, but you'll become a house of cards and annoy him. Just keep doing so until the end of the match. Do that and I'll flip you upside down, we'll see who's laughing then.
Scar Scrilla 398	Posted - 2014.09.10 08:34:00 - [32] - Quote I always slow down for old ladies and friendly LAVs. Even though I often DUI when playing Dust . Maybe they should implement some traffic signs for Delta Post some design ideas for a Dust traffic sign saying "tankers, be aware of friendly LAV". I will donate 1 Mill ISK to the best contributor!!! "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" " ... or grab a shotgun and REs." - UN1TE
Zindorak 1.U.P 890	Posted - 2014.09.10 11:38:00 - [33] - Quote But it's so funny when you can troll your blueberries Pokemon master! I suck at Tekken lol
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 39	Posted - 2014.09.11 00:07:00 - [34] - Quote xavier zor wrote: It only recently came to my attention that LAV's get instantly destroyed if touched by a tank-I strapped 12 proxy explosives and tried to destroy an enemy tank, but ran into a friendly tank during the process accidentally...'xavior zor committed suicide' I tried again, and slowly parked my saga next to the supply depot. Then a friendly tank backs into me and kills me! 'xavior zor committed suicide' This feature should be removed when both vehicles are on the SAME TEAMCCP next hotfix e.g update DELTA this should be implemented! I have had a few incidents where while I was waiting for a friendly to hop in my vehicle, someone called a tank down and it landed on me. Other times I called a LAV down, then 4 people run into it with a dropship hahahaha A LAV is a lightly armored/shielded vehicle. A drop ship is a flying vehicle that when colliding with other vehicles , building structures, the ground blow up easily. Your surprised your LAV blows up so easily again for what reason???
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 39	Posted - 2014.09.11 00:10:00 - [35] - Quote I myself have had blueberries purposely ram my newly dropped drop ship or even try to shoot me out of the sky because it will throw my ship off. Complaining to anyone is pretty much pointless. Thus is also why people complain about blueberries.
Joel II X Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 3360	Posted - 2014.09.11 00:22:00 - [36] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Joel II X wrote: When that happens, grab a Soma, a Starter Fit of your choosing, and ram him. You will not kill him, but you'll become a house of cards and annoy him. Just keep doing so until the end of the match. Do that and I'll flip you upside down, we'll see who's laughing then. You're on, buttercup! I'll let you in on a secret, though. My Soma, you see, is no ordinary Soma. Tis a transformer! Robot in disguise.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 965	Posted - 2014.09.11 03:33:00 - [37] - Quote Team vehicle damage really is the ultimate troll tool. Tanks carelessly ram any vehicle getting dropped or in their path. LAVs intentionally ram dropships during deployment. Dropships get instakilled by RDVs magically appearing or even deciding not to leave once they have dropped your ship.
iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game 300	Posted - 2014.09.11 10:24:00 - [38] - Quote lavs are pointless vehicles that fill up the team quota, i crush every one of them that i see "yeah i fought the redline it took it only 13 seconds....." fought scotty too but something went wrong
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3494	Posted - 2014.09.11 10:47:00 - [39] - Quote I've had tankers ram my dropship as it was deployed 'with afterburners' I've had tankers literally drive over my stationery LAV I've given tankers plenty of room, only for them to turn into me on purpose I've had tankers shoot my dropships out of the sky, because I finished off an enemy tank that was getting away. You don't need to worry about LAV drivers griefing HAV drivers, that costs ISK to do. We do need to penalise some of the absolute nobc*s who grief others from HAV's They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3


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