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Hybrid tanking: Simple fix

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BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3009	Posted - 2014.09.05 03:03:00 - [1] - Quote I have a lot of suits, a lot of armor suits and a lot of shield based suits and one thing I have noticed is that shield based suits have a lot of PG left and armor based suits have a lot of CPU left over, when the opposite modules aren't filled which makes sense sure but, they also have plenty of room on their dependent fitting which allows for dual tanking fits to not only take up the unused portion but barely cap out their fitting costs. This leads to hybrid tanking without any noticeable penalties or hinderances, which creates big problems in balancing the game. So one simple way of limiting dual tanking is by increasing the fitting of these tank modules, rather than increasing the PG of armor (yet again) and the CPU of shields (yet again) if the PG of shields is increased and the CPU of armor is increased very slightly dual tanking becomes slightly more restrictive and requires a sacrifice in other aspects like weapons, equipment etc to make up the difference for the HP. This is where the minmatar come in, since their weapons require low fittings and they have the best balanced fitting they can have their versatile tank and remain unhindered by this. For this to work secondary shield modules require a small fitting reduction to energizers and regulators (coming Delta) to fit a pure shield tank. With the -15% reduction to CPU for these modules in Delta my Caldari suit has an extra CPU to spare which allows me to build a pure shield fit (below) and have a completely set of very good equipment and weapons. But with an increase to the PG of just the shield modules dual tanking this suit, would require a sacrifice in its very good shield repair and in weapon systems; as you can see know it has almost 15 PG to spare which allows for easy dual tanking. Also light damage modifiers would require a very small fitting reduction, or give the skill a bigger bonus of 5% CPU/PG reduction per level to allow better pure fits for Gallente. GK.0 no shields Dual tank Gk.0 Increasing the PG of shields, this suit would instantly be invalidated while the above suit would not be affected at all. (Increasing the CPU of armor barely has an effect on dual tanks but I suggest it anyways to be fair) Surprisingly if you do happen to spot a Gk.0 on the field this is what you will usually see, as you can see I still have a truck load of CPU left over, and very good weapon systems, so when it comes to fitting weapons and HP a dual tank fit is the most optimal fit. CK.0 No armor CK.0 Dual tanked Increasing the PG of shields, this suit would instantly be invalidated while the above suit would not be affected at all. (Increasing the CPU of armor barely has an effect on dual tanks but I suggest it anyways to be fair) Again another dual tanked monster, it has fairly decent armor repair and pretty decent shield repair and again over 1K EHP, and a truck load of CPU left over. So if you managed to get this far you are probably anxious to read the "numbers" they are very small, I am suggesting a very small CPU increase of 10% to armor, and 10% increase to PG of shields. This equates to 1.1 extra PG to shields and 2-4 extra CPU to armor, very small numbers and since pure tanking is only intensive on the dependent fitting this should barely hurt any pure tank fits. Except those that use very intensive modules that really, really need a tone down (kinetic catalyzers...), and of course hybrid tanks. Now I only tried this idea on pure tanked fits but please provide me with other fits so that I can make sure that this would not hinder any other play styles. (i.e pure kin cat shield builds) supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Atiim 11848	Posted - 2014.09.05 03:30:00 - [2] - Quote I'll just paste a post I made a while back on the topic: Atiim wrote: So I have 3 Options: Style 1: A suit with 700HP of Shields Style 2: A suit with 800HP of Armor Style 3: A suit with 400HP of Shields, and 400 HP of Armor Style 1 is weak to Laser and Hybrid - Blaster weaponry, Style 2 is weak to Explosive, Hybrid - Railgun, and Projectile Weaponry, and Style 3 is weak (and strong) to all of them. In order to dual tank, you have to use both your high and low slots, so you don't get the advantages that come with selecting 1 style of tank, which are: Shields Electronic Warfare Hacking Speed Lower Shield Delays Speed Stamina Armor Weapon Damage Scan Precision Melee Damage? Basically, a Dual Tanker has the advantage of Effective Hit Points, as they have an even amount of both Shields and Armor, allowing them to be strong (and weak) against all profiles. However, they also don't have the ability to use modules which improve attributes other than HP, such as Speed or Damage. How is this a problem exactly? DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3010	Posted - 2014.09.05 03:45:00 - [3] - Quote The two dual tank fits I made are stronger against all types of damage for example the shield HP of the Caldari dual exceeds the shield HP of the hybrid. So they can resist all damage, regardless. Which creates the problem where weapon like the aSCR cannot be effective because most people dual tank because it really is more effective. As for the sacrifice like the ewar, hacking, etc compared to the benefits of the higher survivability they are just not good enough. Specially for medium suits and heavis where they can't even do half the things on that list because scouts do it better. Which leaves lower shield delays as the only useful thing on the list, but dual tanking brings long term survivability specially if using shields because you know have armor repair to back you up while you wait out your delay. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2014.09.05 15:09:00 - [4] - Quote How is dual tanking an issue dual tanked suits are vastly weaker than true blood suits no reason to nerf ** because some people make fits stupidly.. fact is if max ehp really factors into your duel that much your straying yo far from your roles play style. I AM AMARRIAN. I run true blood fits only..no heretic will ever beat me by running shields on a amar suit And the only caldari assaults I see pose a threat to my amar assault are true blood tanking ..they aren't stacking plates...cause they know I'm gonna ** up that shield .and armor isn't gonna save them... being able to duck behind cover an d recover they're shields fast is caldari edge. And that's the only way they can compete no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2014.09.05 15:14:00 - [5] - Quote A brick tanked suit does not win out vs a balanced suit no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 326	Posted - 2014.09.05 15:19:00 - [6] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: A brick tanked suit does not win out vs a balanced suit Agreed. My shield only assault Ck.0 just laughs at the same suit brick tanked.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 144	Posted - 2014.09.05 18:01:00 - [7] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: A brick tanked suit does not win out vs a balanced suit Agreed. My shield only assault Ck.0 just laughs at the same suit brick tanked. My amar ak.o giggles at the laughable dmg other ak.o running shield ext deal. .. I bet your ck.o recovers 3x faster and moves faster 2Lol no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 329	Posted - 2014.09.05 19:26:00 - [8] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: A brick tanked suit does not win out vs a balanced suit Agreed. My shield only assault Ck.0 just laughs at the same suit brick tanked. My amar ak.o giggles at the laughable dmg other ak.o running shield ext deal. .. I bet your ck.o recovers 3x faster and moves faster 2Lol Yes, if set up correctly it can be a really good suit
Tectonic Fusion 2160	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:00:00 - [9] - Quote I'm actually thinking of replacing my reactive plate for another shield regulator because as a cal scout, I'm too use to low shield delays when I'm playing caldari assault. (GIF)
Atiim 11963	Posted - 2014.09.08 12:56:00 - [10] - Quote Bump DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3034	Posted - 2014.09.08 13:36:00 - [11] - Quote I got a bump and here I thought everybody was for hybrid tanking :p Some don't realize how much better the hybrid fits are in the current meta. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2659	Posted - 2014.09.08 14:31:00 - [12] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: I got a bump and here I thought everybody was for hybrid tanking :p Some don't realize how much better the hybrid fits are in the current meta. Not really. I have found armor tanking caldari suits to be craptastic. Minmatar seem to be more functional fit with a little bit of tank, speed and a lot of gank. Putting extenders on gallente and amarr fits isn't more advantagious.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3038	Posted - 2014.09.08 22:09:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I got a bump and here I thought everybody was for hybrid tanking :p Some don't realize how much better the hybrid fits are in the current meta. Not really. I have found armor tanking caldari suits to be craptastic. Minmatar seem to be more functional fit with a little bit of tank, speed and a lot of gank. Putting extenders on gallente and amarr fits isn't more advantagious. Dual tanking extenders depends on your fit, if you are a brick tanked armor suit damage mods will be slightly better than shields but if you are a rep tanking gallente shield modules will tend to be much better than damage mods. For the brick suit two damage mods is the max, after two the effectiveness of shields surpasses the bonus to damage. For shields one reactive plate will always be better than one regulator after that it is really about preference and how you play your suit if you want a more brawl type suit with decent repair on both you dual tank if you want to focus shields you use regulators and a repairer or reactice. But almost all shield suits use some type of armor repair. Even if it's not strictly 100% hybrid all suits depends on at least one module of the opposite tank to offset some glaring weakness. For armor it'd the stacking penalty of damage mods and they low bonus compared to the hp of shields, for shields is no repair to armor and shield enhancing modules stacking penalty. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious


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