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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
969
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Posted - 2014.09.03 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Serious question here for all those Economic Doomsayers. Considering most BPO gear is Militia level, (with some at ADV, if I recall), how would the Militia versions ruin the AUR economy when most AUR sales are around ADV and PRO gear, or boosters?
If your reasoning is "free suit" I'd have to slap you because all the starter fits are free.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
5430
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Posted - 2014.09.03 16:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Free suit.
My hometown beat Manchester united.
Git gud man utd.
4-0
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3079
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
It ruins the ISK economy...
What you receive from public contracts is dependent on two things WP and enemy ISK destroyed. So if the enemy loses a lot of high end vehicles and proto suits you will get a lot of ISK, your War Points will decide how much of that you get. So essentially if everyone runs BPO's you will not receive a lot of ISK from public contracts.
Tanker/Logi/Assault
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Titus Stryker
Ancient Exiles.
420
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Serious question here for all those Economic Doomsayers. Considering most BPO gear is Militia level, (with some at ADV, if I recall), how would the Militia versions ruin the AUR economy when most AUR sales are around ADV and PRO gear, or boosters?
If your reasoning is "free suit" I'd have to slap you because all the starter fits are free.
ask CCP, they are the ones who said it...
Twitch &
YouTube
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ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1468
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
...there is no economy...
If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known.
Also, Raptors...
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
969
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:It ruins the ISK economy...
What you receive from public contracts is dependent on two things WP and enemy ISK destroyed. So if the enemy loses a lot of high end vehicles and proto suits you will get a lot of ISK, your War Points will decide how much of that you get. So essentially if everyone runs BPO's you will not receive a lot of ISK from public contracts.
Which is exactly the same as running a starter fit? You don't run one forever unless you were never going to upgrade in the first place, thereby invalidating this entire argument point.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3036
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:It ruins the ISK economy...
What you receive from public contracts is dependent on two things WP and enemy ISK destroyed. So if the enemy loses a lot of high end vehicles and proto suits you will get a lot of ISK, your War Points will decide how much of that you get. So essentially if everyone runs BPO's you will not receive a lot of ISK from public contracts.
Fairly certain that BPOs still have an ISK price tied to them behind the curtains. It's unlimited for you, but database-side it still have a value when 'destroyed'. Likely equivalent to its BPC counterpart.
The primary concern in that the destruction of assets is a means to remove ISK from the economy, and thus combat inflation. In an ideal economy, the relative value of ISK would remain constant bcause the overall supply of it would be constant. However as we know from real world economics, the total amount of currency in the economy typically increases over time, thus lowering its relative value in the process.
BPOs allow players to generate ISK from battles with little to zero cost, meaning that ISK is being added to the economy without removing any in the process. This in turn makes the rate of inflation increase.
Now for Dust it's not....a huge deal anymore, since there won't be trading and the economy is limited to pretty much a personal economy. Inflation is of course always a bad thing, but the amount of damage it can do to Dust without any sort of trade is limited to an extent. |
OZAROW
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1543
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
They never have; no player market= no economy
Pc land holding and farming districts did more damage than anything ever could.
It has always been a cash grab for ccp thats why they took them away so they could re introduce them in a few months on a quicksmash and grab and YOU are non the wiser.
Yes, you just got rocked by a guy with a BOLT PISTOL and a pair of knives! !
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Private Part's
sticky green's
8
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
You need an economy first for them to ruin it if cpp actually implemented there vision of eve player's manufacturing and marketing there items on a cross platform market then there might be reason to gripe about this but since it looks like this will never come to fruition the economy arguments are a mute point.
And I would love to play matches where it was all militia and bpo gear i think that would be extremly fun but that won't happen since given the option a lot of people will wear there proto gear to give them that extra edge to try and dominate the match it's human nature to be competitive trying to one up the other guy. |
sabre prime
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
388
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:...Considering most BPO gear is Militia level, (with some at ADV, if I recall)...
I don't think there are any ADV level BPOs. The only exception might be the 'master recruiter CII' dropsuit, which might be the equivalent of the old ADV dropsuits from chromosome. But apart from that, BPOs are all militia/basic level.
BPOs don't ruin the economy, but they unbalance it. If your willing to suffer in terms of your competitiveness and K/D/R, then you can grind out some serious ISK running BPO fits. Maybe they should be limited just to dropsuits, rather than weapons and equipment.
In reality, I don't think they harm anything. It's just a cosmetic item for the collectors, CCP should tell us what is going on with the long term strategy for the game though. I've always wanted BPOs, but I'm not spending money on this game when there is so little communication about what CCPs future plans are.
Oh yeah, and legion?
Desperate attempt to get BPOs
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3268
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
The best BPOs are standard equivalent, nothing advanced or higher.
They do affect match payout, but I'm confident CCP can compensate or correct for that if they need to. The biggest effect would've been if the game had gotten a player market, which isn't coming. So most of the problem is off the table at this point.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16337
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Posted - 2014.09.03 18:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
The largest immediate factor despite lack of market is that they can severely reduce battle pay as battle pay can befactored on the things destroyed. More expensive the things on the field get destroyed (on either side) the more payout everyone gets sliced up into chunks based on winning and war points and time contribution.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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DoNotPassGo
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.09.03 18:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
So now, playing dust will be a COMPLETE waste of time........... Its no wonder people have been farming alts for over a year.
I NEVER got over 300k on a regular basis. Even with 4000wp. I got 5000wp once and only got 200k. Three guys under me, got in the 3000wp range.
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Rusty Shallows
Caldari State
2085
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Posted - 2014.09.03 19:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The largest immediate factor despite lack of market is that they can severely reduce battle pay as battle pay can befactored on the things destroyed. More expensive the things on the field get destroyed (on either side) the more payout everyone gets sliced up into chunks based on winning and war points and time contribution.
True. The horribly byzantine contract system doesn't help.
Likes are my candy and in these forums every day is Halloween. XD
Sweets for everyone!
Forums > Game
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
16338
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Posted - 2014.09.03 19:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
DoNotPassGo wrote:So now, playing dust will be a COMPLETE waste of time........... Its no wonder people have been farming alts for over a year.
I NEVER got over 300k on a regular basis. Even with 4000wp. I got 5000wp once and only got 200k. Three guys under me, got in the 3000wp range.
500k over 10 hours is a bit lousy
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
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Nobinishi
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
29
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Posted - 2014.09.03 20:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
There ain't no player market for trade of goods for cash. Therefore there isn't any economy. So they can reintroduce it with no detrimental factor.
It's a CCP cash grab stated in the lowest forms.
This is CCP foresight.Take out BPOs cause it will ruin a non existent incoming market but somehow left the PC mechanics alone for an excruciating long time span because the generations of billions of ISK will never affect PC,PUB or FW gamemodes. 
Check the Bass Bruh !! My bad still figurin' out the buttons..
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Dj grammer
New Age Empire.
General Tso's Alliance
348
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Posted - 2014.09.03 20:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Serious question here for all those Economic Doomsayers. Considering most BPO gear is Militia level, (with some at ADV, if I recall), how would the Militia versions ruin the AUR economy when most AUR sales are around ADV and PRO gear, or boosters?
If your reasoning is "free suit" I'd have to slap you because all the starter fits are free.
Free suit
Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
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Nirwanda Vaughns
426th Infantry
742
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Posted - 2014.09.03 20:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
get about 290-400k isk per ambush. logi ftw :)
bpo's dont really ruin the ingame economy what they ruin is CCPs economy of players buying disposable AUR items that they can lose purely down to broke a$$ mechanics and CCP did'nay like. CCPs biggest mistake was removing Merc packs. i know many players who bought at least 1 $20 merc pack per month because they were a great deal but ccp got greedy, made up some bs and took them off and the -ú/$ income vanished with them.
if the raven/valor/sever sets as well as Quafe, Fed defense union, black eagle, covenant sets were introduced in various merc packs similar to the ones we had then perhaps more players would spend money. the idea i had was to has a merc pack for each role so...
Raven C-I Logistics Merc Pack
1 x 'Raven' Logistics C-I BPO
1 x State Nanohive BPO
40k Aurum
1 x 30 Day active booster
(plus other racial consumable items)
then you could have
Black Eagle Assault G-I Pack
1 x Black Eagle Assault G-I BPO
1 x Black Eagle Assault Rifle BPO
40k Aurum
1 x 30 Day active booster
(plus other racial consumable items)
but the idea was that for the Gallente logi you got the Logi G-I BPO and an Active scanner BPO, with a Minmatar logi you got the suit BPO and a Repper BPO, give 1 suit and one weapon/equipment BPO, the 40k AUR and a 30day booster and a few other consumables, just liek the old packs. then the Elite versions would be all 4 racial suits plus the weapons/equipment BPOS too
Gallente
AR BPO (assault)
Ion pistol BPO (sentinel)
Shotgun BPO (scout)
Scanner BPO (logi)
Caldari
Rail Rifle BPO (assault)
Sniper BPO (scout)
Magsec BPO (sentinel)
Nanohive BPO (logi)
along with the the 4 suits, plus the 2 active/passive 30 day boosters and the 100k AUR that we got too as well as a themed LAV in the 'pattern' colours, a purple and white methana for the Quafe set, an orange and grey saga for the state protectorate ect.
CCP could have made a killing with the right structured merc packs and the various vanity themes
Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
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Dj grammer
New Age Empire.
General Tso's Alliance
349
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Posted - 2014.09.03 20:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sorry about the double post but in all reality (my $0.02) DUST514 did not have a market to begin with. If you were to venture all the way back to close/open beta when we were back in chromosome, we the community demanded an open market. My $0.02 would say that definition of an Open Market meant the following things:
- The ability to sell your items to others at competitive prices. An example would be any officer weapon at a good deal.
- The ability to trade off items or trade for items.
- Can sell back to the NPC market as well as trade items with them as well.
- Whatever happens in New Eden affects everyone and the Market. Example say the Duvolle market crashed due to some pilot in EVE ram-sacking their supply, this would have a negative effect on the market with inflating prices. Also the classic supply and demand deal.
- Stating last point any game in New Eden affects all other games as well giving purpose or more of a purpose to every game (DUST514, EVE Online, Valkyrie, the upcoming LEGION, and etc.)
So until this game receives an open market, there really isn't a presence of a market at the moment.
Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
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Killface Hunt
TO THE DEATH
25
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Posted - 2014.09.03 20:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The largest immediate factor despite lack of market is that they can severely reduce battle pay as battle pay can befactored on the things destroyed. More expensive the things on the field get destroyed (on either side) the more payout everyone gets sliced up into chunks based on winning and war points and time contribution.
"Severely" ?? Gross overstatement there.
The bpo's are standard or militia. Running Isk equivalent fits won't add much to the pool. |
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Riruodo
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
72
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Posted - 2014.09.03 21:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have yet to see a convincing argument from CCP on why BPO's are bad. I'll believe them when they show a concise statement backed by graphs, statistics and charts.
Because all I see was CCP's desire to move customers away from BPO's to consumable AUR items to keep cash flowing. Which didn't really work out, because if I go by what I've read on the forum, merc packs were awesome and a steady source of revenue, considering players tended to buy more than 1. And AUR? eh, maybe a few try-hards buy them.
Or if Rattati says something. He's the only one I trust at CCP.
My other car is Utena
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IMMORTAL WAR HERO
NECROM0NGERS
196
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Posted - 2014.09.03 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Serious question here for all those Economic Doomsayers. Considering most BPO gear is Militia level, (with some at ADV, if I recall), how would the Militia versions ruin the AUR economy when most AUR sales are around ADV and PRO gear, or boosters?
If your reasoning is "free suit" I'd have to slap you because all the starter fits are free.
it doesn't because everyone essentialy has bpo proto somehow
Frowned upon by amateurs: The object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his. GSP
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