|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1981
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 18:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Delta
Keep your head high 'till then my friend. There's nothing to be dealt with. The balance is fine.
Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS.
Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP.
Imagine if a single AVer could easily kill ADSs. Now add another, and another. That would make AV completely OP. (And before you counter, multiple ADSs are usually more of a threat to themselves and a hinderance to their team than compounding their effectiveness).
Take forges for example: a single skilled forge gunner can easily down virtually any ADS within one clip (or about 7.5 seconds). Now, with some fancy flying and a bit of luck, I can usually take one forge myself, but add another and it's far more difficult.
Now imagine 2 swarmers have it guaranteed that all 3 shots will hit (since currently, and under typical battle scenarios, you're guaranteed 2 swarm hits, increasing this would inevitably lead to 3 guaranteed hits). That's 6 volleys of missiles that are GUARANTEED to connect. With the forge, it at least takes some skill to land blows, swarms are just fire and forget.
The only rebalance I would accept as fair would be an increase in AB cool down time from 10/10/10sec to 25/20/15sec. |
Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1981
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 18:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Atiim wrote:Assault Dropships will be dealt with in Hotfix Delta
Keep your head high 'till then my friend. There's nothing to be dealt with. The balance is fine. Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS. Then why would I even bother using AV if he's guaranteed to escape?Because by driving him away, you're taking him out of the battle for a time. Don't be so myopic.Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP. Imagine if a single AVer could easily kill ADSs. Now add another, and another. That would make AV completely OP. (And before you counter, multiple ADSs are usually more of a threat to themselves and a hinderance to their team than compounding their effectiveness). This paragraph right here is extremely biased.Basically, why would I use Y if 1x GëÑ 2y? Though what you said about multipule ADSs is not false (to an extent). 2 ADSs can easily destroy an entire team if they're good, and in open areas (which is a good amount of the maps in DUST) they're in no way a hinderance to anyone other than the enemy team. Multiple AV units on the other hand, reduce the Anti-Infantry capabilities of your team, as well as the ability to hack/push objectives; all of which are deciding factors in whether or not a team will win the match.[/i] If you mean that I find it unfair that my +500k proto ADS can now be easily be killed (with no hope of escape or retaliation) by 2-3 <50k suits that I may never see, hear, or know about before hand, if that's what you call biased, then yeah, it's biased. What it actually is is an accurate description of what you and other swarmers want. If I am wrong, then stop being vague and tell me what you actually want, I've said what I want.
I have already said what should happen when you are a solo AVer: the dropships has either the ability to flee or if he stays, dies. That is the current reality of EVERY viable solo AV set up: either the ADS retreats, fights and kills it, or dies. Swarms are no different from forges in this respect. With more AVers working together, they have a higher chance of killing an ADS, even if one of them are killed.
But what you want is a single AVer to RELIABLY KILL and ADS, and I said that that will be unbalanced if multiple AVers work together.
As for reduction to AI, your trading countering vehicles for countering infantry, and since the enemy vehicles cannot operate fully, they are now a reduction to the enemies AI potential, as well, and as an Infantry with a side arm, you have more AI potential than a tank in the redline or ADS high in the sky. Besides, if you're a commando you can just use another light weapon, so that point doesn't really hold well.Take forges for example: a single skilled forge gunner can easily down virtually any ADS within one clip (or about 7.5 seconds). Now, with some fancy flying and a bit of luck, I can usually take one forge myself, but add another and it's far more difficult. And any ADS with an Afterburner can easily escape before 7.2s (Incubi in 4s, Pythons in 2.6s). Honestly if you're dumb enough to stand there for 7.5s you deserve to dieYou're ignoring the fact that the first hit is shot and second shot is charging before the pilot has time to react, activate mods, and accelerate to full speed. What you're suggesting is that a full speed ADS is flying over the head of the forge and the forge is trying to shoot it. Realistically, a forge should have not trouble getting off at least 3 shots on a preoccupied ADS that has a decent reaction time and flees immediately. This accomplishes the goal of a solo AVer to drive off vehicles, but since the forge actually takes skill to aim and fire, it has the bonus of being more reliable in actually killing them.The only rebalance I would accept as fair would be an increase in AB cool down time from 10/10/10sec to 25/20/15sec. So basically a 5s increase in the Afterburner? That's won't suffice. You and I both know that your ADSs will be getting nerfed in Delta, so I'd get in as much fun as you still can. My responses in bold. |
Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1981
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 19:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Dust User wrote:Thumb Green wrote:It's fcking ridiculous that a small missile turret can kill a sentinel in the time it takes the regular FG to charge a single shot What suit you running that does this? I can survive several blasts. Also: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun > everything else If you're using the regular forge you're doing it wrong. I use the Amarr, I use mostly reps on it to keep it light so it's easier to avoid direct hits as well as to rep up quickly so I'm not just a sitting duck with low health; AV with extremely poor mobility dies quicker than AV with just poor mobility. I do use the IAFG but that's irrelevant to the point that small missiles can kill a sentinel in the time it takes for the regular FG to charge. Some people don't like the AFG and I don't blame them; getting the timing right on an evasive ADS can be quite hard with the AFG. First off, let's explain everything wrong with using an Amarrican suit as a forge. It is armor based, so it's only natural I'm going to have my way with you as a rocket ADS. Second, I specced at least 15-20 mil SP into this, that includes ROF, which I skilled into wholeheartedly. Third, some pilots miss, you have to put into account some people are just good at what they do. Forth, it takes six to eight shots average to kill a sentinel. I don't see what you're complaining about. Fifth, ADS pilots are supposed to use evasion tactics, most novice pilots sit there and hover when fighting AV and that is the dumbest mistake you could make. If flying about like a drunk hillbilly causes you to miss a few shots yourself, but causes him to miss a few, then so be it. Another reason is because some pilots (myself especially) will make several passes to kill a forge if they seem skilled. This is because my health regens far faster than yours does, so I can get 2 shots off, fly away, come back for another two shots or so, retreat, and then finish you off.
This is why I prefer a rep-tanked Cal when I forge, because the repair rate is just about the same (i.e. I usually repair shields before the ADS comes back). Not to mention you're more resistant to damage and more agile if you need to move.
EDIT: And before someone replies and calls this OP, let me assure you it's not. First, it takes a ton of time to kill even a single forger this way. Second, incredibly dangerous, putting myself in the line of fire repeatedly. Third, it's incredibly predictable, making it even more dangerous. Third, it doesn't work nearly as well on Cal sents, as I explained above. And fourth, it take a fair amount of piloting skill to do right and effectively. |
Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1986
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 22:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:
Want to fend off an ADS? Use AV. Don't expect a single AVer to reliable kill an ADS.
Want to reliably kill an ADS? Use teamwork, it's OP.
That's some straight up "Teamwork for thee but not for me" bullsh!t. I can admit it was a realistic view for tanks when they used it but it didn't work for game balance; for aircraft however, it just flat out doesn't work. Nothing in this game should require teamwork to reliably kill one person, least of all aircraft. Again, myopic. You're only thinking, "If I can't kill it, I'm useless." You don't see that fending off or occupying dropship's is just as useful and not imbalanced either way. You're not powerless against me! In fact, you're so disruptive and threatening that you go straight to my #1 on my "threats to deal with" list whenever I see you.
Currently, one ADV swarmer can disrupt and damage a dropship enough to force it to fly away and/or fight the AVer. Both of these pull the ADS away from actually fighting and essentially make it useless to the team for the moment.
Now put yourself in my shoes. Why the hell would I bring out a half a mill ISK vehicle if 1 swarmer, 1 <75k suit, stood a very likely chance of killing me every time I got in range? And God forbid there were 2 of them or a forge!
AND THIS IS NOT TO SAY I'M AGAINST SOME NERFS!
I have said above that I'm for an AB cooldown nerf. They are too potent across the board, I agree. I'm also willing to have a moderate missile splash-damage nerf as to make ADSs less effective against infantry (keep direct damage though for anti-vehicle). But as far as AV/ADS symbiosis, it's about as balanced as it can get right now. |
Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1986
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 23:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Why does everyone get my name wrong? |
|
|
|