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mollerz
5250
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Posted - 2014.09.03 01:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
... to try legion?
I'd like to use this
Hardware config'd as:
2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache
64GB (4x16GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC
1TB PCIe-based flash storage
Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each
MSRP $9,599.00
I'd use windows virtually on it of course  (but really  )... at least until you got it together enough to rock and roll like you do with the eve OSX client.
So what's up?
Coiled and Ready to Strike
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Joel II X
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
3246
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 02:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
I KNOW I'll have to buy one. If I change my video card, my whole tower will melt. |
SGT NOVA STAR
1.U.P
274
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Posted - 2014.09.03 02:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
alieneware steam machine?
VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
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mollerz
5250
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Posted - 2014.09.03 02:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
SGT NOVA STAR wrote:alieneware steam machine?
That is a straight up nope comparatively.
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
321
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 02:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
mollerz wrote:... to try legion? I'd like to use thisHardware config'd as: 2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache 64GB (4x16GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC 1TB PCIe-based flash storage Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each MSRP $9,599.00I'd use windows virtually on it of course (but really )... at least until you got it together enough to rock and roll like you do with the eve OSX client. So what's up?
MacMasterRace, that's the truth. Let #PCMasterRace Scrubs get their daily fatal errors.
Ei fu,
xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
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Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1205
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 02:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hahaha Mac... for gaming? You're better off building a PC with same performance for half the price. |
Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1205
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Posted - 2014.09.03 02:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Here, just build this. It ends up being about $1000 including with Monitor, Mouse, Keyboard, and other accessories. |
Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
322
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Posted - 2014.09.03 02:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:Hahaha Mac... for gaming? You're better off building a PC with same performance for half the price.
Bootcamp partition -> Install Windows 7 -> Install game -> Play pretty well. "Same performance".....
Ei fu,
xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
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mollerz
5250
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Posted - 2014.09.03 02:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
Silly low bid pc people... Spare me. Money isn't an issue and other creative endeavors and all.
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1205
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Posted - 2014.09.03 02:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Silly low bid pc people... Spare me. Money isn't an issue and other creative endeavors and all.
Alright bro, I'll hook you up with a monster PC. |
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Freccia di Lybra
Maphia Clan Corporation
323
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Posted - 2014.09.03 02:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
with Dual AMD FirePro D700 6GB GDDR5 you could run any game, Ultra at 4k 60fps. Try doing it with your 1000 $ PC.
Ei fu,
xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
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Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1205
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 02:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Okay. Go down to where it says "Monstrous"
This is by far not the best PC build out there, but it's a pretty basic one. |
mollerz
5250
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
You PC guys know that CCP puts out an excellent eve client for OSX and have for a long time.
Why the **** woud I be interested in spending $1k on a PC when I'll easily spend 10x that on the best mac pro.
I don't care if you get that or not. You spend your ****, I'll spend mine.
Just like I make my $ like you make yours. All good in the hood right? Have fun with your PC. I'm almost happy for you. I might even give it a **** squirt second of thought some day.
So back on topic- about that OSX client....
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9209
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ew! Mac.
Go with Windows PC instead if you want a gaming rig.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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mollerz
5250
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Posted - 2014.09.03 03:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Ew! Mac.
Go with Windows PC instead if you want a gaming rig.
Ok mr maken tosch (irony?)
Link me to an equivalent. I won't hold my breath 
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Thurak1
Psygod9
969
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
mollerz wrote:... to try legion? I'd like to use thisHardware config'd as: 2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache 64GB (4x16GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC 1TB PCIe-based flash storage Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each MSRP $9,599.00I'd use windows virtually on it of course (but really )... at least until you got it together enough to rock and roll like you do with the eve OSX client. So what's up?
Considering the very early stages legion is in its probably not worth pricing out a system. I would wait until legion is in beta testing before building a system for it. |
mollerz
5250
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:mollerz wrote:... to try legion? I'd like to use thisHardware config'd as: 2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache 64GB (4x16GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC 1TB PCIe-based flash storage Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each MSRP $9,599.00I'd use windows virtually on it of course (but really )... at least until you got it together enough to rock and roll like you do with the eve OSX client. So what's up? Considering the very early stages legion is in its probably not worth pricing out a system. I would wait until legion is in beta testing before building a system for it.
That rig pays for itself hundreds of times over and is one of many.
But let me put it this way. If legion can't run on that... click my sig.
I'm seriously fukn serious
|
Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1205
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
mollerz wrote:You PC guys know that CCP puts out an excellent eve client for OSX and have for a long time.
Why the **** woud I be interested in spending $1k on a PC when I'll easily spend 10x that on the best mac pro.
I don't care if you get that or not. You spend your ****, I'll spend mine.
Just like I make my $ like you make yours. All good in the hood right? Have fun with your PC. I'm almost happy for you. I might even give it a **** squirt second of thought some day.
So back on topic- about that OSX client....
Wait...
"Why would I spend 1k when I could spend 10k for the same performance?" Just get the 1k PC and shove the other 9k up your ***. |
Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1377
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arch Linux or gtfo mofos......
..... Ignore me, I don't really have a fcking clue of how I even know about Arch.
We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 03:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:mollerz wrote:You PC guys know that CCP puts out an excellent eve client for OSX and have for a long time.
Why the **** woud I be interested in spending $1k on a PC when I'll easily spend 10x that on the best mac pro.
I don't care if you get that or not. You spend your ****, I'll spend mine.
Just like I make my $ like you make yours. All good in the hood right? Have fun with your PC. I'm almost happy for you. I might even give it a **** squirt second of thought some day.
So back on topic- about that OSX client.... Wait... "Why would I spend 1k when I could spend 10k for the same performance?" Just get the 1k PC and shove the other 9k up your ***.
First of all.. you'll never ever ever get the same performance stooge.
Secondly, like I said- my 10k rig pays way over the event horizon for itself so WTFDIG?
don't know what kind of rig you run bare bones for 1k, but hey- that's fine by me.
I'm just trying to figure out how to run legion without spending a useless $1k that I could wipe my ass with instead. Or not.
J/K spare cash goes towards charity, and hell. I even put my own personal time into it. What you got going on with your low bid PC? Does that "cost" include proper AV and a windows license? Or do you just wing it and steal your software so your rig cost is as quoted?
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Thurak1
Psygod9
969
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Posted - 2014.09.03 03:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Thurak1 wrote:mollerz wrote:... to try legion? I'd like to use thisHardware config'd as: 2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache 64GB (4x16GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC 1TB PCIe-based flash storage Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each MSRP $9,599.00I'd use windows virtually on it of course (but really )... at least until you got it together enough to rock and roll like you do with the eve OSX client. So what's up? Considering the very early stages legion is in its probably not worth pricing out a system. I would wait until legion is in beta testing before building a system for it. That rig pays for itself hundreds of times over and is one of many. But let me put it this way. If legion can't run on that... click my sig.
You forget how CCP thinks. CCP makes up for coding shortcomings with higher PC requirements. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9209
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Ew! Mac.
Go with Windows PC instead if you want a gaming rig. Ok mr maken tosch (irony?) Link me to an equivalent. I won't hold my breath
Google is your friend.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=gaming+pc&tbm=shop&tbs=vw:l,cat:325,price:1,ppr_max:9599,p_ord:pd
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 03:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Arch Linux or gtfo mofos......
..... Ignore me, I don't really have a fcking clue of how I even know about Arch.
Making a linux port is just to play around and show your elite. Nothing more really because there is no profit in it
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1205
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
mollerz wrote:First of all.. you'll never ever ever get the same performance stooge.
Secondly, like I said- my 10k rig pays way over the event horizon for itself so WTFDIG?
don't know what kind of rig you run bare bones for 1k, but hey- that's fine by me.
I'm just trying to figure out how to run legion without spending a useless $1k that I could wipe my ass with instead. Or not.
J/K spare cash goes towards charity, and hell. I even put my own personal time into it. What you got going on with your low bid PC? Does that "cost" include proper AV and a windows license? Or do you just wing it and steal your software so your rig cost is as quoted?
First off, your ignorance when it comes to computer performance is alarming, you're saying PCs will never be able to match the Mac's performance?
Secondly, this. Mac is all show, that's why you'll be paying 10k for a system that costs 3k. |
mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 03:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
AMAZING fail. Did you even read the product of your google search?
So let me just say I am done with PC vs Mac bs. Buy what you want.
Point is CCP makes an OSX client for eve and I would buy a POS windows license (that's right not even pirate it) and run it one my box. My rig.
If my rig keeps you up at night get a life.
I'm seriously fukn serious
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mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 03:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:mollerz wrote:First of all.. you'll never ever ever get the same performance stooge.
Secondly, like I said- my 10k rig pays way over the event horizon for itself so WTFDIG?
don't know what kind of rig you run bare bones for 1k, but hey- that's fine by me.
I'm just trying to figure out how to run legion without spending a useless $1k that I could wipe my ass with instead. Or not.
J/K spare cash goes towards charity, and hell. I even put my own personal time into it. What you got going on with your low bid PC? Does that "cost" include proper AV and a windows license? Or do you just wing it and steal your software so your rig cost is as quoted? First off, your ignorance when it comes to computer performance is alarming, you're saying PCs will never be able to match the Mac's performance? Secondly, this. Mac is all show, that's why you'll be paying 10k for a system that costs 3k.
Get a life. I'm so done with you it's like beyond the pale. o7
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1205
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Get a life. I'm so done with you it's like beyond the pale. o7
You know when they say those three words... WOO HOO! |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
9209
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 03:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
mollerz wrote:AMAZING fail. Did you even read the product of your google search? So let me just say I am done with PC vs Mac bs. Buy what you want. Point is CCP makes an OSX client for eve and I would buy a POS windows license (that's right not even pirate it) and run it one my box. My rig. If my rig keeps you up at night get a life.
I did. I'm just giving you options.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Thurak1
Psygod9
970
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 04:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Don't mac's all run on ibm hardware these days now anyway? So basically the pc vs mac argument comes down to how the hardware is packaged ( IE case ) and the OS ( which mac uses a flavor of a modified bsd with a nice gui ) so really i hate to say it but diehard mac fans just really like shiny packaging and a custom OS that has very little market share.
Logic is the ultimate slayer of futile arguments. MAC fanboys enjoy IBM hardware just as much as PC fanboys :) |
mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 04:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:mollerz wrote:Get a life. I'm so done with you it's like beyond the pale. o7 You know when they say those three words... WOO HOO!
Yup.
Have fun with that.
I'm seriously fukn serious
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mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 04:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:Don't mac's all run on ibm hardware these days now anyway? So basically the pc vs mac argument comes down to how the hardware is packaged ( IE case ) and the OS ( which mac uses a flavor of a modified bsd with a nice gui ) so really i hate to say it but diehard mac fans just really like shiny packaging and a custom OS that has very little market share.
Logic is the ultimate slayer of futile arguments. MAC fanboys enjoy IBM hardware just as much as PC fanboys :)
Yea. God knows why lowest bid PC junk users who will never know the difference come out of the wood works. Like IGAF about the POS rigs people buy and use.
So.. yea about that OSX client...
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
962
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 04:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
thats quite possibly dumber than the new area51 from alien. id laugh at anyone who wasted 4000$ on a metal trashcan that cant play uncharted.
i swear some people have more money than common sense. someone who buys that would have to be dumb enough to go out and order an iwatch too lmao
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1206
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 04:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:mollerz wrote:Get a life. I'm so done with you it's like beyond the pale. o7 You know when they say those three words... WOO HOO! Yup. Have fun with that.
I'm just saying...
>Asks if this 10k Mac will be good enough to run Legion
>Brags about how much better it is than PC
Am I missing something or are you just trying to hint that you have money to throw around? |
SGT NOVA STAR
1.U.P
278
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 04:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
so this is a conversation about "I can get 2 more frames than you and 3% more grass ha ha"?
VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
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mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 04:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
SGT NOVA STAR wrote:so this is a conversation about "I can get 2 more frames than you and 3% more grass ha ha"?
lol I wish. It's more like can I run it at all?
I'm seriously fukn serious
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SGT NOVA STAR
1.U.P
280
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 04:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
mollerz wrote:SGT NOVA STAR wrote:so this is a conversation about "I can get 2 more frames than you and 3% more grass ha ha"? lol I wish. It's more like can I run it at all?
I'd say wait till beta and revisit. seems people are more worried about flaunting than helping. go tell your rigs stats to a girl at the bar guys, see what happens.
fyi a bar is where normal people socialize...
VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
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mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 04:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hakyou Brutor wrote:mollerz wrote:Hakyou Brutor wrote:mollerz wrote:Get a life. I'm so done with you it's like beyond the pale. o7 You know when they say those three words... WOO HOO! Yup. Have fun with that. I'm just saying... >Asks if this 10k Mac will be good enough to run Legion >Brags about how much better it is than PC Am I missing something or are you just trying to hint that you have money to throw around?
No. But I have a high end rig, so I wan't to play legion on it.
Having money to throw around is irrelevant. A smarter person would get that my rigs earn money so it's a cost of doing business.
I would, however, like to utilize a specific one, which has over the moon specs, for legion. Cool?
I'm seriously fukn serious
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mollerz
5251
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Posted - 2014.09.03 04:45:00 -
[38] - Quote
SGT NOVA STAR wrote:mollerz wrote:SGT NOVA STAR wrote:so this is a conversation about "I can get 2 more frames than you and 3% more grass ha ha"? lol I wish. It's more like can I run it at all? I'd say wait till beta and revisit. seems people are more worried about flaunting than helping. go tell your rigs stats to a girl at the bar guys, see what happens. fyi a bar is where normal people socialize...
Okay. Would it **** you off if you found out I dated lots of models and a rock star?
Irrelevant though, right?
So about running a video game on a high end rig booted with windows. Can we make sure this works until CCP rocks a legion on osx like they do on eve? Would be super cool.
I'm seriously fukn serious
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SGT NOVA STAR
1.U.P
280
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 04:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
mollerz wrote:SGT NOVA STAR wrote:mollerz wrote:SGT NOVA STAR wrote:so this is a conversation about "I can get 2 more frames than you and 3% more grass ha ha"? lol I wish. It's more like can I run it at all? I'd say wait till beta and revisit. seems people are more worried about flaunting than helping. go tell your rigs stats to a girl at the bar guys, see what happens. fyi a bar is where normal people socialize... Okay. Would it **** you off if you found out I dated lots of models and a rock star? Irrelevant though, right? So about running a video game on a high end rig booted with windows. Can we make sure this works until CCP rocks a legion on osx like they do on eve? Would be super cool.
if were playing pretend can a be an Iraq vet too? I know that's alot of gamers "go to". 
VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
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Kalante Schiffer
Pure Evil.
704
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 04:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
Who spends 10k on a computer? anyone here that knows what they are doing could build a super PC with that kind of money.
jiffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffmxfffffffoiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiifvossssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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mollerz
5252
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Posted - 2014.09.03 05:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
SGT NOVA STAR wrote:mollerz wrote:SGT NOVA STAR wrote:mollerz wrote:SGT NOVA STAR wrote:so this is a conversation about "I can get 2 more frames than you and 3% more grass ha ha"? lol I wish. It's more like can I run it at all? I'd say wait till beta and revisit. seems people are more worried about flaunting than helping. go tell your rigs stats to a girl at the bar guys, see what happens. fyi a bar is where normal people socialize... Okay. Would it **** you off if you found out I dated lots of models and a rock star? Irrelevant though, right? So about running a video game on a high end rig booted with windows. Can we make sure this works until CCP rocks a legion on osx like they do on eve? Would be super cool. if were playing pretend can a be an Iraq vet too? I know that's alot of gamers "go to".
Yea. I don't pretend so... And I would hella never pretend to be a vet. My brother is a vet and I have nothing but o7 for that.
STFU.
I'm seriously fukn serious
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mollerz
5252
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 05:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:Who spends 10k on a computer? Anyone here that knows what they are doing could build a super mega godlike PC with that kind of money. I know nothing about building computers but i sure as hell know that i would water cool mine because it looks cool and improves pc performance.
Not everything is about gaming. But it would be tragic if, for some reason, I couldn't run windows on my rig and also run legion because of some lame bug like I have been dealing with dust for over a year on, right?
I'm seriously fukn serious
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SGT NOVA STAR
1.U.P
280
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 05:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
you have 5k likes on a video game forum, have thousands of $ to throw around and "date models and rock stars" and arguing that your gaming rig is the bomb lmao bro your the definition of a nerdy nobody. it's like so cliche! iv heard this so many times it's almost like i'm being punked. anyone with a brain can look at the clues of anyone and know their life. not hard yo.
VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
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mollerz
5252
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Posted - 2014.09.03 05:23:00 -
[44] - Quote
SGT NOVA STAR wrote:you have 5k likes on a video game forum, have thousands of $ to throw around and "date models and rock stars" and arguing that your gaming rig is the bomb lmao bro your the definition of a nerdy nobody. it's like so cliche! iv heard this so many times it's almost like i'm being punked. anyone with a brain can look at the clues of anyone and know their life. not hard yo.
Totally. Apparently just to rally you.
Please channel that effort and emotion into opening legion for all. High end to low end. PC... to dare I say, console?
PS4 specifically, so we can all be the same. Just so you won't have to worry yourself over such things.
I'm seriously fukn serious
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1438
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 06:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
I think you would be wise to wait until legion is announced before making any plans for your PC/mac/whatever.
First, we don't know it will ever be released.
Second, to try and predict specs/compatability on MacOS a year or more in the future is a fools game. |
MrShooter01
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
721
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 07:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
Freccia di Lybra wrote:with Dual AMD FirePro D700 6GB GDDR5 you could run any game, Ultra at 4k 60fps. Try doing it with your 1000 $ PC.
not sure if trolling
i mean i've seen some ignorant "its expensive so it must be good at everything" stuff come out of stereotypical mac fanboys but this is poe's law level
its beautiful |
mollerz
5252
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 07:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
MrShooter01 wrote:Freccia di Lybra wrote:with Dual AMD FirePro D700 6GB GDDR5 you could run any game, Ultra at 4k 60fps. Try doing it with your 1000 $ PC. not sure if trolling i mean i've seen some ignorant "its expensive so it must be good at everything" stuff come out of stereotypical mac fanboys but this is poe's law level its beautiful
thank you. Easy bumps really 
I'm seriously fukn serious
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MrShooter01
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
721
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 07:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
For a serious attempt at answering the question in the OP... look, I'm not a CCP employee working on legion, but if you're actually expecting a concrete response from them on hardware requirements and OS support when it's not even greenlit, well... I wouldn't hold my breath
Anandtech benchmarked some games on a macpro configured with dual AMD FirePro D700s, running windows 7 bootcamp, etc. While the firepro certainly wasn't designed with playing computer games in mind (note that its significantly slower than the much cheaper R9 280x card its based on) its decent enough to run some recent popular games at 1440p above 60 fps.
There really is no reason why that mac pro wouldn't be able to run Legion, as CCP has to set a low barrier to entry on the hardware side of things if they want a decent number of users. Hell, I dare to pull out my crystal ball and say it will run Legion at 60fps just fine.
Bookmark this post and make fun of me in the future if I'm wrong  |
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