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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
22
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Posted - 2014.08.05 07:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to start an intelligent discussion on some of the issues that I've noticed both being hit by and using the various rifles. These are my opinions based on non-PC gameplay:
TLDR:
1 Scrambler rifle's do too much DPS with no drawback when you use modded control inputs to maximize fire rate.
2 Combat rifle's have way too accurate hip fire making them too easy to use.
3 Plasma rifle's range is so low compared to other rifles that their higher DPS isn't worth it.
4 Rail rifle's range is so long that it encourages stagnant gameplay, and makes other weapons unappealing to use.
5. I recommend a range adjustment for all rifles (i.e. PR 75m, CR 81m, SCR 87m, RR 94m), as well as a 20m gap between optimal and effective range being the standard for all rifles to help make all rifles equally viable.
Scrambler Rifle: The ScR preforms well at a distance, and fair up close. It has high damage, and low kick. There are a few issues. First is the ADS zoom level. Compared to all of the other rifles ADS zoom (with an optic), the ScRs zoom is pathetic for the range the weapon has. It feels a bit lackluster to use on moving targets at the edge of its range. The other problem is its fire rate. Its current fire rate of 705RPM is arguably too high. It is the figure used to calculate its DPS for balance reasons, but it requires 12 button presses/sec to achieve. The world record is around 15 button presses/sec, and professional gamers average around 8 button presses/sec. This is normally fine as it puts the gun in line with other rifles, however people with modded control inputs that allow them to easily hit 12 button presses/sec get a gun with comparable DPS to an HMG, but with substantially longer range, lower kick, and lower spread. People who employ this method are extremely hard to deal with, and I believe that this is something that should be adjusted to a more realistic level.
Combat Rifle: This is an extremely user friendly weapon. It has a favorable damage profile, Its max rate of fire is east to achieve (in just under 7 bursts) for a semi-auto weapon, and its hip fire spread without the sharpshooter skill is substantially better than a Burst PR. Its hip fire accuracy is what has made it especially popular with scouts, as they can move about easily and fire from the hip at targets 40m away accurately. Its identical rate of fire to the Assault CR has made its variant mostly irrelevant as it does 2/3 the damage per bullet. That being said, the assault variant fires so quickly and has so little kick that it can be fired very accurately. Low Kick is a trait common to Minmatar weapons in general, and from the standpoint of how the various weapons in this game would work in reality, they are the only ones that should experience substantial kick, yet rail and blaster weapons have way higher kick. I recommend having SLIGHTLY more kick, and putting the spread closer to that of the Burst PR. This would make it less desirable to simply hip fire at targets unless you invest into the sharpshooter skill, and make it slightly more skill based. A longer pause between bursts would also allow it to feel more distinct from its assault variant.
Plasma Rifle: This weapon family has quite a few issues. For instance, with the exception of the officer variants, all PRs have the same maximum ammo capacity. This means that the assault variant consumes ammunition extremely quickly, and the tactical variant uses very little. The tactical variant of this weapon in particular has many issues. Its hip fire spread is WAY too large. Far larger than its direct competitor the ScR, which makes it very difficult to use it in close quarters. The kick on the Tac PR is also very high, and forces you to slow down your fire rate in order to hit your targets. The largest problem with this series of weapon (excluding the tactical variant) is the range. The optimal range (42m) and the effective range (70m) for the assault variant of this weapon are FAR too low, and the range between (28M) them is much larger than other rifles. The ScR for instance has a 75m optimal, and a 96m effective with a 21m difference between them. The rail rifle's range is even higher, with a similar range between optimal and effective range to the ScR. The difference in weapon range between the PR and other rifles is so great that you can't really attempt to engage distant targets because if you try to advance at an enemy beyond your effective range, by the time you get to the edge of your effective range, you are well into their optimal range, and that's if they give you enough time to without being killed. You have to get EXTREMELY close to people to be effective, and you might as well use an HMG if you have to get to 40m to be effective as the HMG is doing similar damage at that point. The Krin's and Balac's are the only rifles that feel good an effective because they have a 50m optimal and a 85m effective range making them comparable to a CR.
Rail rifles: The rail rifle's range is too good. Using closer range weapons like the PR and CR against a rail rifle user near their max effective range very difficult as by the time you enter your effective range, you are in/near the RR optimal range, and it takes too long to close the gap so you get shot along the way. It also makes using a LR difficult as the RR does significant damage beyond effective range and makes it hard to use because you take significant damage before the weapon heats up significantly. It also encourages stagnant gameplay, as a RR user can plink from max effective range and nobody can approach them without being shot first, and the only solutions is to plink back with a RR/ScR, use a LR, snipe, or to go absurdly far around or use vehicles. This makes most other weapons feel ineffective, and this prolongs matches as you can't advance on a position held by RR users that is surrounded by open ground (as is often the case).
That's my 0.02isk anyway.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1767
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Posted - 2014.08.05 14:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
The weapons are balanced to tactics.
If you are being outranged swap to the RR/SCR based on the predominant enemy suits (shield/armor).
In CQC switch to AR/CR again based on enemy use of shields/armor.
Complaining that the weapons behave wildly differently is like saying how unfair it is that you cant drink saltwater. Rather like the human body isnt rigged for doing it, not all comparabe weapons are optimized for identical roles.
Example: Laser Rifle versus Sniper Rifle. Both weapons perform very differently but both do effectively the same thing: long-range termination of individual enemy infantry. |
headbust
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
122
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Posted - 2014.08.05 14:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:The weapons are balanced to tactics.
If you are being outranged swap to the RR/SCR based on the predominant enemy suits (shield/armor).
In CQC switch to AR/CR again based on enemy use of shields/armor.
Complaining that the weapons behave wildly differently is like saying how unfair it is that you cant drink saltwater. Rather like the human body isnt rigged for doing it, not all comparabe weapons are optimized for identical roles.
Example: Laser Rifle versus Sniper Rifle. Both weapons perform very differently but both do effectively the same thing: long-range termination of individual enemy infantry.
wat about people that are racial they gallente get screwed everytime
a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
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Ahkhomi Cypher
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
187
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Posted - 2014.08.05 15:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
I want a ROF increase on my Plasma Rifle. Iknow it just got one but i dont think it was enough to make it "The" CQC rifle it's supposed to be. Another 100-250 should fix that. 175 would be just about right.
right now its pew pew pew pew.
it should be pewpewpewpew.
BUT too much of a ROF increase and it'll be
peweweweweweweweweweweweraaaawwhhh
we dont want that. thats the HMGs role.
Opus Arcana | TBD Ringleader | Yep Squad Spokesman
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1770
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Posted - 2014.08.05 15:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
headbust wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:The weapons are balanced to tactics.
If you are being outranged swap to the RR/SCR based on the predominant enemy suits (shield/armor).
In CQC switch to AR/CR again based on enemy use of shields/armor.
Complaining that the weapons behave wildly differently is like saying how unfair it is that you cant drink saltwater. Rather like the human body isnt rigged for doing it, not all comparabe weapons are optimized for identical roles.
Example: Laser Rifle versus Sniper Rifle. Both weapons perform very differently but both do effectively the same thing: long-range termination of individual enemy infantry. wat about people that are racial they gallente get screwed everytime
Gallente are an odd group. The lack of a couple weapons on their end kinda makes it hard to put them in a tactical box. they're very versatile, they're walking death at close range, but they are balanced to kill caldari in close, not fight amarr in a stand-up brawl.
the fact that both heavy weapons are armor eating, and do lessened damage to shields also works against the fact that gallente are balanced for rapid close combat and recovery, the suits are more self-sufficient than most of the others. That's their advantage. |
Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
323
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Posted - 2014.08.05 15:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:The weapons are balanced to tactics.
If you are being outranged swap to the RR/SCR based on the predominant enemy suits (shield/armor).
In CQC switch to AR/CR again based on enemy use of shields/armor It shouldn't be like that.
If I am outranged with an AR I should be able to switch to tactical or breach AR to get better range, not to a whole different rifle type.
AKA - StarVenger
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3614
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Posted - 2014.08.05 17:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
All Fine Rifles are too accurate from the hip.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
25
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Posted - 2014.08.05 19:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:The weapons are balanced to tactics.
If you are being outranged swap to the RR/SCR based on the predominant enemy suits (shield/armor).
In CQC switch to AR/CR again based on enemy use of shields/armor.
Complaining that the weapons behave wildly differently is like saying how unfair it is that you cant drink saltwater. Rather like the human body isnt rigged for doing it, not all comparabe weapons are optimized for identical roles.
Example: Laser Rifle versus Sniper Rifle. Both weapons perform very differently but both do effectively the same thing: long-range termination of individual enemy infantry.
In situations where you already are deployed and have a shorter range weapon, it makes sense to think that you should be able to close the gap by waiting for them to reload, or by using a maneuvers. In practice, I find that closing the distance gets you killed, and either requires a lengthy trip to a supply depot, or a lengthy trip to get into a flanking position. They have too much ability to control territory, and weapons that should be better at assaulting it due to their high performance at close quarters aren't favorable because they can't use that to their advantage in most situations.
When dealing with snipers, you can counter them by getting close to them. You can do so by moving erratically or taking advantage of the limited FoV they have when aiming down the sights. With lasers, the counter is to get move to where their weapon is less effective (either close or move farther away), or try to get them to overheat, or try to get them to restart their beam by using cover. This gives you options on how to deal with them. While adjusting fits to the situation is good, and should be done whenever possible, the fact that someone using a weapon forces me to use another weapon is why this thread was made in the first place. There is no practical strategy to dealing with it besides using another gun that is more capable. That creates a static range v range situation. Muck like the heavy v heavy situation, and the scout v scout situation. They existed because the only counter was to switch fits to something with similar stats.
Ideally a PR user could advance enough to encourage a RR user to fall back. And a RR user would want move about to maintain range advantage. I find that that is not how it works in practice. I'd like to see situations where people are using all sorts of weapons because of their advantages, or because they wanna play along racial lines, or because they simply enjoy their weapon of choice. Not just the ones that are hardest to counter, or are "most competitive". Every time I see a Gal commando using a rail rifle and a combat rifle, it hurts.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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