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Character Recycling Exploit - Will it be addressed?

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Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 127	Posted - 2014.07.25 23:02:00 - [1] - Quote It's only 500,000, or 1,000,000 isk if you biomass two alts. You can make that same amount in under an hour... I really don't see the reasoning of referring to it as an exploit. I'm not defending or supporting this 'exploit', but I don't see the point in wasting time on it. I'm sitting on 65mil earned through playing this game for several months (think a year now...). Someone making a mil every 10 hours is of little concern to most of us... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 128	Posted - 2014.07.26 03:20:00 - [2] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: It's only 500,000, or 1,000,000 isk if you biomass two alts. You can make that same amount in under an hour... I really don't see the reasoning of referring to it as an exploit. I'm not defending or supporting this 'exploit', but I don't see the point in wasting time on it. I'm sitting on 65mil earned through playing this game for several months (think a year now...). Someone making a mil every 10 hours is of little concern to most of us... This one person in my local was bragging that with his 16 PSN alts, (1.5 million per PSN * 15 + 1 mill ) per ten hours, = 23.5 Mill every ten hours. I bet a big portion of that ISK you have is from Salvage reset. You want to know the secret to getting money is? Run nothing but militia, the starter suits that they give you, or cheap standards suits for a month or two. I rarely get anything below 6th place at the end of a battle when playing like this. I only have about 6 fittings that are adv and proto; Everything else is below 15k. It's not hard at all to get isk when you can get an average of 180 to 240k per match and play at least 4-6 hours a day. I play honestly, and I don't take handouts either, as I have no reason to with that much isk, and I'm more than willing to give people isk when they actually need it, and not sitting on a throne of it. I also have a friend that has somewhere over 150mil, and I know that they play like any other honest person would and not exploiting anything to get isk, and they don't give a ** about the amount they have, and neither do I. By the way, what is salvage reseting? You can't sell things in this game, so how is salvage related to getting isk? Math: The average time to play a match is about 5 minutes in Ambush, and OMS can take about 10. So if you play and run nothing but cheap or blueprint suits (including the starter fits) for about 6 hours a day, and with an average of 200k isk per match you can make: 72 Ambush games in 6 hours = 14,000,000 isk 36 OMS games in 6 hours = 7,200,000 isk Range of 7,200,000 isk to 14,000,000 per 6 hours. An entire week of Ambush/OMS in 6 hour sessions = 50,400,000 to 98,000,000 An entire month (31 days for example) of Ambush/OMS in 6 hour sessions = 1,562,400,000 isk to 3,038,000,000 isk** The amount you make entirely depends on how much you want to play. Very. Frickin'. Simple. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 128	Posted - 2014.07.26 03:28:00 - [3] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: It's only 500,000, or 1,000,000 isk if you biomass two alts. You can make that same amount in under an hour... I really don't see the reasoning of referring to it as an exploit. I'm not defending or supporting this 'exploit', but I don't see the point in wasting time on it. I'm sitting on 65mil earned through playing this game for several months (think a year now...). Someone making a mil every 10 hours is of little concern to most of us... This one person in my local was bragging that with his 16 PSN alts, (1.5 million per PSN * 15 + 1 mill ) per ten hours, = 23.5 Mill every ten hours. I bet a big portion of that ISK you have is from Salvage reset. You want to know the secret to getting money is? Run nothing but militia, the starter suits that they give you, or cheap standards suits for a month or two. I rarely get anything below 6th place at the end of a battle when playing like this. I only have about 6 fittings that are adv and proto; Everything else is below 15k. It's not hard at all to get isk when you can get an average of 180 to 240k per match and play at least 4-6 hours a day. I play honestly, and I don't take handouts either, as I have no reason to with that much isk, and I'm more than willing to give people isk when they actually need it, and not sitting on a throne of it. I also have a friend that has somewhere over 150mil, and I know that they play like any other honest person would and not exploiting anything to get isk, and they don't give a ** about the amount they have, and neither do I. By the way, what is salvage reseting? You can't sell things in this game, so how is salvage related to getting isk? Math: The average time to play a match is about 5 minutes in Ambush, and OMS can take about 10. So if you play and run nothing but cheap or blueprint suits (including the starter fits) for about 6 hours a day, and with an average of 200k isk per match you can make: 72 Ambush games in 6 hours = 14,000,000 isk 36 OMS games in 6 hours = 7,200,000 isk Range of 7,200,000 isk to 14,000,000 per 6 hours. An entire week of Ambush/OMS in 6 hour sessions = 50,400,000 to 98,000,000 An entire month (31 days for example) of Ambush/OMS in 6 hour sessions = 1,562,400,000 isk to 3,038,000,000 isk** The amount you make entirely depends on how much you want to play. Very. Frickin'. Simple. He's referring to the time during Dust's early development when players use to have a lot of salvage but then a major update come out warranting a major ISK refund of a lot of assets that players had that were getting removed from their inventory. Thanks for telling me. They also did an inventory refund when they did the vehicle revamp of 1.7, when they removed a lot of content and refunded players for the items and their respective skill books. Only got about 20mil out of that. For some reason I had 30 Prometheus Logistic dropships, and I didn't use them, as I'm and ADS pilot. I think they were from an event way back when. Also, I've only been playing since they very beginning of Uprising, around the second week I believe. I didn't know about Dust or it's previous expansions at the time, so i don't know exactly when I started, but I remember the Amarr Commando being added in 1.2. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 128	Posted - 2014.07.26 03:32:00 - [4] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Well, one simple idea is to reduce starting ISK and make early skillbooks cheaper. This was brought to my attention very recently and I am not up to speed on available countermeasures, increasing the biomass timer is an obvious simple additional measure. Thanks. Thanks for at least looking into it. I highly suggest looking at how Eve Online does it since they do it right. Although the main factor to consider is that Eve Online is subscription based compared to Dust's Free-to-Play model. Also, as someone else here also suggested, I support the idea of making the player complete the academy BEFORE they are given rights to transfer ISK. I'm fine with whatever solution they come up with, so long as it doesn't hinder new players who are making actual characters. Technically, you can make just about the same amount of isk in that 10 hour time period legitimately as you can with 16 PSN accounts, which I can only imagine would be a hassle going through that process, but is still substantially lesser effort than actually playing the game. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 129	Posted - 2014.07.26 03:42:00 - [5] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: It's only 500,000, or 1,000,000 isk if you biomass two alts. You can make that same amount in under an hour... I really don't see the reasoning of referring to it as an exploit. I'm not defending or supporting this 'exploit', but I don't see the point in wasting time on it. I'm sitting on 65mil earned through playing this game for several months (think a year now...). Someone making a mil every 10 hours is of little concern to most of us... It's an exploit no matter how you see it. If you look as how CCP created Dust, they never intended for this game to allow you to profit just from character recycling. You're suppose to profit from fighting in matches or at least scamming a player or robbing a corp. In fact, that's how CCP calls it in Eve Online, an exploit. Eve also has a system in place where your starting ISK (known as an inheritance) is 5,000 and your biomass timer is no less than 24 hours and trial accounts can't transfer ISK. Of course, the mitigating factor here is that in Eve you have to pay a subscription to get it out of the trial account or PLEX the account using the ISK earned in-game while on trial. Of course, why would anyone bother doing the character recycling exploit in Eve if they can somehow afford PLEX doing actual in-game work? The punishment for doing this exploit in Eve Online is a 2-strike-you're-out ban (use to be 3 strikes) followed by a seizure of your ISK and assets. In EVE it's far more competitive and VASTLY more players than DUST, and makes such an issue truly game breaking if you could transfer obscene amounts of isk off a new character. It's just my belief that in Dust, there is not as much as a reason to solve this issue, or rather a lacking of one, but I'm not saying it should be ignored either. I just don't believe it's that much of an issue with how easy it is to get isk with a little effort. Your pretty much set once you get to 20mil, and you can remain at a constant amount of isk and have no issues with being too poor to buy what you need, and that can be made in a couple of days. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 129	Posted - 2014.07.26 03:51:00 - [6] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: You want to know the secret to getting money is? Run nothing but militia, the starter suits that they give you, or cheap standards suits for a month or two. I rarely get anything below 6th place at the end of a battle when playing like this. I only have about 6 fittings that are adv and proto; Everything else is below 15k. It's not hard at all to get isk when you can get an average of 180 to 240k per match and play at least 4-6 hours a day. I play honestly, and I don't take handouts either, as I have no reason to with that much isk, and I'm more than willing to give people isk when they actually need it, and not sitting on a throne of it. I also have a friend that has somewhere over 150mil, and I know that they play like any other honest person would and not exploiting anything to get isk, and they don't give a ** about the amount they have, and neither do I. By the way, what is salvage reseting? You can't sell things in this game, so how is salvage related to getting isk? Math: The average time to play a match is about 5 minutes in Ambush, and OMS can take about 10. So if you play and run nothing but cheap or blueprint suits (including the starter fits) for about 6 hours a day, and with an average of 200k isk per match you can make: 72 Ambush games in 6 hours = 14,000,000 isk 36 OMS games in 6 hours = 7,200,000 isk Range of 7,200,000 isk to 14,000,000 per 6 hours. An entire week of Ambush/OMS in 6 hour sessions = 50,400,000 to 98,000,000 An entire month (31 days for example) of Ambush/OMS in 6 hour sessions = 1,562,400,000 isk to 3,038,000,000 isk** The amount you make entirely depends on how much you want to play. Very. Frickin'. Simple. I don't know how this is relevant to the subject at hand seeing as you're actually playing the game. Earning 50m-100m a week with 6h playtime a day is fine since you're doing it legitimately (I'd add that 6h a day every day is pretty darn commited when you're probably capped out before the end of day 2 of each week). What Bojo is talking about, and Macintosh (huehue) is taking issue with, is someone claiming to make around 50m a day while probably doing kitten all to earn it! Accounts are free and the creation => transfer => biomass process is probably done by some macros while the player could aswell be playing his main in between the cycles or on a separate console. It was in response to someone stating that I was sitting on isk obtained through a Salvage reset a while ago, and I simply explained to him that I did not, and as I assumed through the way he responded, that he did not believe that it was possible to make that amount legitimately, explained it to him just how easy it was. Also, 6 hours of an afternoon isn't what I call committed, I mean no offense, but for the people I play with, that's fairly average for someone who plays after work or is done with school, and that doesn't just include Dust, but other games as well for that 6 hour period. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 129	Posted - 2014.07.26 04:00:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: It's only 500,000, or 1,000,000 isk if you biomass two alts. You can make that same amount in under an hour... I really don't see the reasoning of referring to it as an exploit. I'm not defending or supporting this 'exploit', but I don't see the point in wasting time on it. I'm sitting on 65mil earned through playing this game for several months (think a year now...). Someone making a mil every 10 hours is of little concern to most of us... It's an exploit no matter how you see it. If you look as how CCP created Dust, they never intended for this game to allow you to profit just from character recycling. You're suppose to profit from fighting in matches or at least scamming a player or robbing a corp. In fact, that's how CCP calls it in Eve Online, an exploit. Eve also has a system in place where your starting ISK (known as an inheritance) is 5,000 and your biomass timer is no less than 24 hours and trial accounts can't transfer ISK. Of course, the mitigating factor here is that in Eve you have to pay a subscription to get it out of the trial account or PLEX the account using the ISK earned in-game while on trial. Of course, why would anyone bother doing the character recycling exploit in Eve if they can somehow afford PLEX doing actual in-game work? The punishment for doing this exploit in Eve Online is a 2-strike-you're-out ban (use to be 3 strikes) followed by a seizure of your ISK and assets. In EVE it's far more competitive and VASTLY more players than DUST, and makes such an issue truly game breaking if you could transfer obscene amounts of isk off a new character. It's just my belief that in Dust, there is not as much as a reason to solve this issue, or rather a lacking of one, but I'm not saying it should be ignored either. I just don't believe it's that much of an issue with how easy it is to get isk with a little effort. Your pretty much set once you get to 20mil, and you can remain at a constant amount of isk and have no issues with being too poor to buy what you need, and that can be made in a couple of days. Well, personally, I see it as a major issue and I feel it needs to be addressed especially if CCP ever decides to transfer any of the ISK from Dust to Legion when the time comes to transfer characters to that platform. It is true that they were debating wether or not to transfer isk to Legion, I don't find it that much of an issue if they didn't, but I also think that they were also talking about changing the way you make isk when playing in matches (I think... don't entirely remember). If you believe it's an issue of which that needs to be fixed, that's perfectly fine. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 129	Posted - 2014.07.26 04:05:00 - [8] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: In EVE it's far more competitive and VASTLY more players than DUST, and makes such an issue truly game breaking if you could transfer obscene amounts of isk off a new character. It's just my belief that in Dust, there is not as much as a reason to solve this issue, or rather a lacking of one, but I'm not saying it should be ignored either. I just don't believe it's that much of an issue with how easy it is to get isk with a little effort. Your pretty much set once you get to 20mil, and you can remain at a constant amount of isk and have no issues with being too poor to buy what you need, and that can be made in a couple of days. True, without a fully fledged economy there's little that you can do with that ISK compared to EVE. But (butbutbut) this comparatively "little" includes 24/7 protostomping with impunity on your main, funded by a dozen recycled alts. I'd argue that any exploit capable of worsening the stomping problem is worth fixing, especially when it can be fixed with little to no side effects (assuming early skillbooks get hefty price cuts which was planned anyway afaik). There's also the whole "will our ISK carry over to Legion?" problem because Legion will have a player controlled market with all the implications regarding illicit ISK and the adverse effect thereof to such an economy. This problem needs a resolution by Legion release at the latest. Why not fix it now and benefit Dust in the process? Re: your response to my earlier post, Fair enough. I wasn't intending to sound judgemental with regards to your playing schedule. Merely pointing out that you're earning your ISKies fairly through playing. The persons recycling characters do not and I see an issue there. I didn't take it as offensive or judgemental, just having a friendly discussion, and I understood the point you were making. Again, for those that believe it's an issue that needs fixing, it's perfectly fine to do so and support it. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 133	Posted - 2014.07.27 02:22:00 - [9] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Well, one simple idea is to reduce starting ISK and make early skillbooks cheaper. This was brought to my attention very recently and I am not up to speed on available countermeasures, increasing the biomass timer is an obvious simple additional measure. Thanks. yes increase the timer but dont make it reset at downtime as most people could make 1m every downtime from the 2 "ISK clones" or 2 mill if they havnt done it in a while and do it before downtime, set biomass, wait till after DT and no need to wait as they have been biomassed and roll in the isk again.. its stupid i would say 24 hours real time (maybe tied to skill queue progression so it dosnt reset at downtime) People have suggested that new characters should have to graduate the academy before they are able to transfer their own isk, which works perfectly. Having 16 PSN accounts, logging onto each one, and then playing a match or two would be absolute stupidity for such an endeavor, as you may as well play the game on the single character at that point. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

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