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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1681
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
this was the question: Thanks. In your expert opinion, what should the proto sentinelse have in PG/CPU per race?
I think it's the wrong question, and it should pertain to all dropsuits, not just sentinels.
I believe if you have the maxed fitting skills for a fit, you should be able to load an efficient full prototype fit to any prototype suit.
This should be the same at all tiers. If you have an adanced suit you should be able to rock advanced modules with good fitting skills. Proto modules should be used with sacrifices.
If you halfass a scout suit fitting skills, you should have a halfass scout.
same goes for donut-chasing fat bastards like me, for assault and for logi.
And the fits CPU/PG allowances should be geared to racial strengths and weapons. An amarr suit should be optimized for laser weaponry and heavy plate usage and carry the PG/CPU accordingly
Caldari sentinels should have the PG/CPU to fit forge guns, shield extenders/rechargers and a bolt pistol or magsec. so on and so forth for each racial suit. They should be balanced for racial loadouts. If you wanna customize and change things up, it should be harder, ergo the fitting skills being important. |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
3089
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Your answer begs a follow up question though Why have pg and cpu restrictions in the first place if we can fit full proto whatever we want |
RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
280
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
While I agree with most of your post, I think you're trying to limit what people do unintentionally.
Sure, having a bonus to heat build up on Amarr makes sense, but what if that person decides to use a CR? Should they be punished for using a weapon outside their race? I don't think so, personally. So, in this example, no bonuses to fitting the weapon, just to the use of it.
I fly an Incubus with XT-1's. I forgo the bonuses to the ship to use a weapon that suits my style better. I'm not punished for using the missiles, I just don't get the bonuses to guns, and that's how I feel fittings should go.
Also, my pro Gal logi has a adv CPU mod in the lows. Of course I'd prefer not to have it and fit something that has a more noticeable effect, but it's needed to fit everything else I want to use at the Pro level.
Fittings are all about trade offs. |
Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
603
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:While I agree with most of your post, I think you're trying to limit what people do unintentionally.
Sure, having a bonus to heat build up on Amarr makes sense, but what if that person decides to use a CR? Should they be punished for using a weapon outside their race? I don't think so, personally. So, in this example, no bonuses to fitting the weapon, just to the use of it.
I fly an Incubus with XT-1's. I forgo the bonuses to the ship to use a weapon that suits my style better. I'm not punished for using the missiles, I just don't get the bonuses to guns, and that's how I feel fittings should go.
Also, my pro Gal logi has a adv CPU mod in the lows. Of course I'd prefer not to have it and fit something that has a more noticeable effect, but it's needed to fit everything else I want to use at the Pro level.
Fittings are all about trade offs.
Just out of curiosity what are you fitting that causes you to have to run a cpu mod?
Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15989
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Enough to do a half prototype fit of the preferred modules. Everything else mostly advanced.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
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Reign Omega
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
603
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Enough to do a half prototype fit of the preferred modules. Everything else mostly advanced.
That sucks
Also no.
Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.
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Jotun Izalaru
Goonfeet
198
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
I don't know that the problem is in Sentinel fitting abilities but the ease of tanking, which is just exemplified by a Sentinel suit.
I don't think anybody would care that Sentinals could rock proto everything if some of that everything were biotics or EWAR, but Sentinels aren't rewarded for those kinds of things. On the Scout end the whining is the same, 800 HP Gal Scouts and 600 HP Cal scouts are just silly but it's been doable for a while because their passives are ridiculous.
So I think the problem is less Sentinel PG and CPU and more,
1) punish tanking to a small extent 2) reward Sentinels for using other modules (impossible?) |
Rusty Shallows
Caldari State
1903
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Posted - 2014.07.22 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
I don't agree about being able to go all prototype. Having to make choices (AND there being multiple viable fit options) tickles my inner geeky engineering.
Breakin Stuff is right on target about making sure CPU/PG-to-fitting-options to all classes of Frames (Light/Medium/Heavy) are universal. One possible land-mine for patch Charile is if they over-boost the fitting on Assaults AND nerf Heavies. One clear indicator of a screw up would be if there are Advanced Assaults with four prototype modules in the Highs & Lows (without using PG or CPU boosting modules) and newly nerfed Advanced Heavies not being able to do the same.
The converse remains true as well. Which could be true and if so something should be done. I still hate nerfing with a passion but things need to be kept fair.
I really need to get on and carefully compare the fitting differences between my Logi Alt and Heavy Main at the different tiers. Maybe figure out if the nerfing calls are just politics or an actual balance argument.
Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1683
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Posted - 2014.07.23 04:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
My commentary is that for full proto you HAVE to have all level 5 skills regarding fitting bonuses. That will both reward the people who crank the (arguably aggravating and boring time sinks) to the max. But people who just dive in without so much as running up dropsuit electronics will be having a rather rough time exploiting the theoretical OPness of a sentinel suit
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Michael Arck
4944
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Posted - 2014.07.23 05:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Great OP
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6668
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Posted - 2014.07.23 05:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
You shouldn't be able to have Prototype Everything.
You have to have sacrifices, this is not Call of Duty or some mainstream RPG where you can go around with all the best equipment willy-nilly and not have consequences.
If you think having prototype everything is good for this game then you are not good for this game.
This game was pitched as "The Thinking Man's shooter" not Generic Mainstream simulator for Idiots: The second Generation if you want that please, by all means, go to Destiny.
see you space cowboy...
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RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
285
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:RayRay James wrote:While I agree with most of your post, I think you're trying to limit what people do unintentionally.
Sure, having a bonus to heat build up on Amarr makes sense, but what if that person decides to use a CR? Should they be punished for using a weapon outside their race? I don't think so, personally. So, in this example, no bonuses to fitting the weapon, just to the use of it.
I fly an Incubus with XT-1's. I forgo the bonuses to the ship to use a weapon that suits my style better. I'm not punished for using the missiles, I just don't get the bonuses to guns, and that's how I feel fittings should go.
Also, my pro Gal logi has a adv CPU mod in the lows. Of course I'd prefer not to have it and fit something that has a more noticeable effect, but it's needed to fit everything else I want to use at the Pro level.
Fittings are all about trade offs. Just out of curiosity what are you fitting that causes you to have to run a cpu mod?
Well, I can never remember the entire fit but its something along the lines of:
Gal Pro Logi
Lows: Pro Range Extender Pro Armor Rep 2x Pro Armor Playe ADV cpu mod
Equip: Pro Scanner Pro Needle Pro Repper Pro Nanohive
Wep: Pro Grenade Pro ACR
High: Pro Precision Enhancer Pro Damage Mod Pro Shield Regen
Don't even ask me the eHP or other stats, I have no idea unless I'm at home. It works well for the role I play.
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OP FOTM
Commando Perkone Caldari State
163
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Posted - 2014.07.23 12:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
i think the fitting optimization skills are pointless on most weapons now, that's for damn sure. especially with the LP store "specialist" versions
CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
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RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
285
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Posted - 2014.07.23 12:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:i think the fitting optimization skills are pointless on most weapons now, that's for damn sure. especially with the LP store "specialist" versions
Except not everyone plays the faction warfare games, so they do come in handy on certain suit / weapon combos. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5713
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Depends on what percentage the heavy weapon fitting reduction will be
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
956
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:You shouldn't be able to have Prototype Everything.
You have to have sacrifices, this is not Call of Duty or some mainstream RPG where you can go around with all the best equipment willy-nilly and not have consequences.
If you think having prototype everything is good for this game then you are not good for this game.
This game was pitched as "The Thinking Man's shooter" not Generic Mainstream simulator for Idiots: The second Generation if you want that please, by all means, go to Destiny. Normally I would agree with you but ask yourself this question , " Has this game lived up to anything that it was pitched as ? " and as far as the Destiny comment .. that was cheep and uncalled for .
You can't knock it if someone prefers playing Destiny to this game , seeing as how this game now has a life span of less that two years and Bungie or other developers that will work with Sony games and not CCP , so you can keep touting CCP all you like as you follow them to legion but a majority of console players will just not fork out the money to build a PC for just one game .
You do it fine but don't knock those who either can not or just won't .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
956
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:OP FOTM wrote:i think the fitting optimization skills are pointless on most weapons now, that's for damn sure. especially with the LP store "specialist" versions Except not everyone plays the faction warfare games, so they do come in handy on certain suit / weapon combos. Also most weapons classes don't have special weapons .
I believe that it should be tied into what you place in the skill tree .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
956
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:My commentary is that for full proto you HAVE to have all level 5 skills regarding fitting bonuses. That will both reward the people who crank the (arguably aggravating and boring time sinks) to the max. But people who just dive in without so much as running up dropsuit electronics will be having a rather rough time exploiting the theoretical OPness of a sentinel suit
Agreed .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
956
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Posted - 2014.07.23 14:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Enough to do a half prototype fit of the preferred modules. Everything else mostly advanced. Are you talking about on a proto suit with skill point investment in the skill tree for electronics ?
Is that maxed out or level 3 or 4 ?
If that's maxed out then I believe that , this type of thinking is part of the problem .
Explain yourself more or better in your reasoning .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
287
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Enough to do a half prototype fit of the preferred modules. Everything else mostly advanced. Are you talking about on a proto suit with skill point investment in the skill tree for electronics ? Is that maxed out or level 3 or 4 ? If that's maxed out then I believe that , this type of thinking is part of the problem . Explain yourself more or better in your reasoning .
I know you're questioning IWS, but my above gal logi has all the requisite fitting skills to 5, it's the only way to cram that much proto on a logi and, as I mentioned, still needs a CPU module to do so |
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2283
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Posted - 2014.07.23 18:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Enough to do a half prototype fit of the preferred modules. Everything else mostly advanced.
Where would we put all the isk?
The question is does it make more sense for business if we loose more isk per death?
or does it make more sense if proto's are nerfed. Which is essentially what that is, and doesn't bother me but seems meh?
The amount of consideration it would take to completely rebalance suit PG/CPU natural allocation and taking in account different skill levels and trying to retest every suit's relevancy on the battlefield yet again?
Seems a bit short sighted.
To Nerf or To Buff?, THAT is the question. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
1684
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Posted - 2014.07.23 20:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Your answer begs a follow up question though Why have pg and cpu restrictions in the first place if we can fit full proto whatever we want
Have you maxed out all of the fitting skills? all of the weapon fitting skills? Do you plan to?
If not, there's your barrier of entry for full proto. about 15 million SP of timesink. |
Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3134
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Posted - 2014.07.23 21:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:this was the question: Thanks. In your expert opinion, what should the proto sentinelse have in PG/CPU per race?
I think it's the wrong question, and it should pertain to all dropsuits, not just sentinels.
I believe if you have the maxed fitting skills for a fit, you should be able to load an efficient full prototype fit to any prototype suit.
This should be the same at all tiers. If you have an adanced suit you should be able to rock advanced modules with good fitting skills. Proto modules should be used with sacrifices.
If you halfass a scout suit fitting skills, you should have a halfass scout.
same goes for donut-chasing fat bastards like me, for assault and for logi.
And the fits CPU/PG allowances should be geared to racial strengths and weapons. An amarr suit should be optimized for laser weaponry and heavy plate usage and carry the PG/CPU accordingly
Caldari sentinels should have the PG/CPU to fit forge guns, shield extenders/rechargers and a bolt pistol or magsec. so on and so forth for each racial suit. They should be balanced for racial loadouts. If you wanna customize and change things up, it should be harder, ergo the fitting skills being important.
No I disagree, maxed out with fitting skills, you STILL should not be able to fit full proto on a proto suit. You should be able to fit 80% of your modules at Proto and the rest at advanced.
Then out of your Primary, Secondary, Grenade and Equipment , 1 of these should be advanced. The idea is that you never have such all powerful fit, instead you have to make sacrifices.
Which is more important Proto weapon or a Proto Nanohive? An extra Proto EHP Module or Support Module?
You choose which is more is more important.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
122
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Posted - 2014.07.23 21:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
OP FOTM wrote:i think the fitting optimization skills are pointless on most weapons now, that's for damn sure. especially with the LP store "specialist" versions
Even with LP weapons lowered pg/cpu, just think about all the extra complex mods you could use......BTW the SG always had the "specialist" at prototype level. As a scout i can tell you fitting optimization skills, it helps in so many ways. So does light weapon operations since it lowers cpu. |
RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
295
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Posted - 2014.07.24 00:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:this was the question: Thanks. In your expert opinion, what should the proto sentinelse have in PG/CPU per race?
I think it's the wrong question, and it should pertain to all dropsuits, not just sentinels.
I believe if you have the maxed fitting skills for a fit, you should be able to load an efficient full prototype fit to any prototype suit.
This should be the same at all tiers. If you have an adanced suit you should be able to rock advanced modules with good fitting skills. Proto modules should be used with sacrifices.
If you halfass a scout suit fitting skills, you should have a halfass scout.
same goes for donut-chasing fat bastards like me, for assault and for logi.
And the fits CPU/PG allowances should be geared to racial strengths and weapons. An amarr suit should be optimized for laser weaponry and heavy plate usage and carry the PG/CPU accordingly
Caldari sentinels should have the PG/CPU to fit forge guns, shield extenders/rechargers and a bolt pistol or magsec. so on and so forth for each racial suit. They should be balanced for racial loadouts. If you wanna customize and change things up, it should be harder, ergo the fitting skills being important. No I disagree, maxed out with fitting skills, you STILL should not be able to fit full proto on a proto suit. You should be able to fit 80% of your modules at Proto and the rest at advanced. Then out of your Primary, Secondary, Grenade and Equipment , 1 of these should be advanced. The idea is that you never have such all powerful fit, instead you have to make sacrifices. Which is more important Proto weapon or a Proto Nanohive? An extra Proto EHP Module or Support Module? You choose which is more is more important.
I respectfully disagree.
Pulling from EVE (I know, I know) It is possible to fit a ship with full t2 weaponry. It might take a lot of time in core skills to do so, but it is possible. Besides, what military industrial complex would ever build a weapon/suit/ship/whatever that's not capable of fielding all the best of whats available at the time. If you take all your core skills to 5, which someone said was about 15 million SP, that's a LOT of time. You trade 6 months (with boosters) for that ability and I don't think that's unreasonable. |
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