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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
230
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Posted - 2014.07.22 01:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
I say probably too late as the population has dwindled for the game but a thought (and probably not a unique one) occurred to me that maybe the issue isn't that proto stomps, but rather why shouldn't they stomp? If the game is based on risk and reward why is it that there is decent reward for a proto suit to stomp frontline suits but no significant reward for a frontline suit to destroy a proto suit?
Although their is definitely an increase in loot value on killing protos its maybe only about a 100k isk increase and that's if you hit rank 1 on your team. It's less as you go down the line of course but still not significant enough to warrant careful strategy and more importantly killing droves of militia is near as profitable so the proto squads will pick and choose and only engage easy targets avoiding other proto squads.
Here is my suggestion for fixing matchmaking, the good ol' capitalist way: Incentive!
Lower the base payouts for participating in a battle over time to something that if a new player goes 0/10 in militia gear they can still make a profit say 80k for joining at the start and losing and 100k for joining at the start then winning. THEN, make the rest of the earnings based on loot salvage with a 25% return on the lost value of the gear split as normally between WP rankings and some added value of achieving the high WP rank. Say 25% for winning and 10% for losing.
For Example:
When your side wins:
Participation = 100k
Entering Later in match = 100k - 10% percent per 5 minutes to a max of 25 minutes (50k)
*Earnings in Loot = 25% of destroyed assets (Suits and Vehicles) distributed amongst rankings, 1st 20%, second 15%, 3rd 10%, 4th-6th 8%, 7th-10th 4%, 11th-13th 3%, and 14-16th 2%.
When your side loses:
Participation = 80k
Entering Later in the match = 80k - 10% per 5 mintues to a max of 25 minutes (40k)
*Earnings in Loot = 10% of destroyed assets (Suits and Vehicles) distributed amongst rankings, 1st 20%, second 15%, 3rd 10%, 4th-6th 8%, 7th-10th 4%, 11th-13th 3%, and 14-16th 2%.
*If there are not enough players at the end of the match then the lowest ranks are distributed to the first 3 ranks alternating starting with 1st place. IE. there is no 16th and 15th person on the team so 2% gets added to 1st place for 16th and 2% gets added to 2nd place for 15th.
This means that for example in the scenario that the match is a mutual clone out:
30 proto fits valued at 200k (estimate for simple math not necessarily the case)
40 adv fits valued at 50k
40 std fits valued at 10k
40 mlt fits valued at 3k
If you are first place and win with 16 players on your team while being present for the entire match you will earn:
426k in loot + 100k for participation = 526k
If you are first place and lose with 16 players on your team while being present for the entire match you will earn:
170.4k + 80k for participation = 250.4k
In Extreme Contrast:
150 mlt fits at 3k each
This will only net you a meagre 122.5k for first place and winning.
In essence, this system will reward you lucratively or poorly based upon the actual resistance you face creating a much more realistic system of risk vs. reward. Likewise if you do intentionally low ball your participation and lose you are likely to see half as much or less as your reward.
This will effectively lower the ability to spam public contracts as no matter what, isk will be lost over time, as the only new isk acquired is that meager base amount making constant proto stomping impossible to sustain. That said this system will reward teams that can dominate the competition. And it has the added value of attrition that it won't reward teams for spamming proto gear and trashing militia unless they can do so without casualties. As killing 30 militia would only return a meagre 750 isk a suit to the team payout on average while killing one proto suit will yield 50k isk per suit the problem of teams looking for easy victories/overcompensating will correct itself.
Not too mention from a classical perspective, this style of spoils of war works more in line in a mercenary ridden universe. If you killed a bunch of dirty peasants your army won't be too happy with its earnings but if you kill an army of say french knights they will be littered with riches regardless of the means they employed to do such a thing.
I figure these may be already possible to implement with a hotfix especially since planetary Conquest was altered, but if not oh well, I Thought I would throw the suggestion out there. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
3127
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Posted - 2014.07.22 02:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Would be cool to pay a merc a fixed percentage of face value for everything he destroys in a match.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
230
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 02:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Would be cool to pay a merc a fixed percentage of face value for everything he destroys in a match.
... though that'd stink for Logis. So pay a fixed value per point healed as well :-)
That's why the proposed system is WP based as it's the closest metric that exists towards participation although it can still be flawed. It doesn't matter so much what you kill but what the team kills and your contribution to the team in terms of WP. Hard to avoid abuse but this system should be simpler to implement then a complete reworking of the games built in merit system. |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1229
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Posted - 2014.07.22 19:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Interesting take on it...have you run the numbers to see what the delta is between the current payout system and your proposal is?
I like the idea behind your premise but it's difficult to see how this helps. I know there is always a tinge of "folks running proto is the problem" but it really just comes down to match making. A 40mil Sp player in std or adv gear will likely wreck shop against less experienced players and end up with about the same amount of WP that they might get in proto gear.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
239
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Posted - 2014.07.22 20:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Interesting take on it...have you run the numbers to see what the delta is between the current payout system and your proposal is?
I like the idea behind your premise but it's difficult to see how this helps. I know there is always a tinge of "folks running proto is the problem" but it really just comes down to match making. A 40mil Sp player in std or adv gear will likely wreck shop against less experienced players and end up with about the same amount of WP that they might get in proto gear.
I'm not sure on how the current system pays out although I do know I can do pretty much nothing and make 180k in the current system while in this proposed one that will not happen. I also know that as I showed you could make 526k which can happen in the current system but we're are talking the destruction of only 30 protos out of 150. Some games I've played we got proto stomped and killed 5-12 of each of the proto spammers and in first place I got 350k for it on the losing team. Whatever the system is currently the loot calculation is minuscule. I can make 300k doing the same thing against std suits. And although it's true that good players can make due, to pretend there isn't an advantage in proto gear is asinine.
This system won't stop proto gear from being used, it just will make it more profitable to pile up proto vs. proto. Which in the current meta as has been at least since uprising, two proto teams on opposite sides usually leads to one side leaving because the current system does not reward you for what you destroy only that you destroy leading to proto squads actively seeking new players to turn into cannon fodder. If you don't believe this had a negative impact on the game's popularity all I can say is we are in disagreement on that point. CCP will have the numbers on how often players quit after battle academy which would be the only way to confirm if this was indeed a problem. That data as far as I know isn't publicly published though. |
501st Headstrong
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
366
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Posted - 2014.07.23 01:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
I support this. Perhaps a WP metric for Logis as well? When we go down after all, that's an additional 250k you just added to the loot pot. Perhaps for every 1000 war points procured, you gain an ISK bonus? Say only around 50k extra, so a really good logi with 3000 war points at the end of a Domination could net around 150k from their reaping, hives, links, etc, which really helps since we get ganked in doms and die around 3-4 times. Yes I know, run what you can afford, but the object of this is to not penalize those running good gear. Otherwise you go basic, get stomped, qq, and here we are all over again.
I love this thread though
From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men
CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
242
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Posted - 2014.07.23 16:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:I support this. Perhaps a WP metric for Logis as well? When we go down after all, that's an additional 250k you just added to the loot pot. Perhaps for every 1000 war points procured, you gain an ISK bonus? Say only around 50k extra, so a really good logi with 3000 war points at the end of a Domination could net around 150k from their reaping, hives, links, etc, which really helps since we get ganked in doms and die around 3-4 times. Yes I know, run what you can afford, but the object of this is to not penalize those running good gear. Otherwise you go basic, get stomped, qq, and here we are all over again.
I love this thread though
The loot calculation would be WP related just like the current system. This means that it's about as fair as it can be to all styles of classes as WP is the only solid metric the game has. Keep in mind you can be the logi in this system that barely kills anyone but comes out in first on your team. In this system if that occurs you still get the Lion's share of the isk as it's based upon first place. Of course if no one really kills anyone or destroys any vehicles your Lion's share will be meager, but if that is the case then your contribution likewise had little effect.
The only real change in this system is that most of the isk generated will be directly correlated with what was destroyed. In the current system the difference between what you earn and what your team destroyed is marginal at best leading to there being no reason to proto vs. proto as it's an uphill battle that will just cost everyone lots of isk. Some may have the isk to burn, but the current system favors vets over newcomers, especially the vets who abused district locking for months in PC without reprisal.
In essence to the Victor goes the spoils. It makes proto spam on ill equipped newcomers even more costly as the payout would be small, while at the same time making proto vs. proto extremely lucrative for the winning side. |
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