DUST Search - Basic heavy... What's the point??

Bethhy wrote:

Apison Valusgeffen wrote:

Why is the Amarr Basic heavy the only one with a different slot layout than it's Sentinel counterpart? All the other racial heavies have exactly the same layout whether you are Basic or Sentinel.

So is the Basic heavy just a place holder until you can spec into the Sentinel? And if so, why is the Amarr different? With the Amarr Basic you at least have a layout option in case you want to fit a suit for a specific situation, i.e. extra shields, more damage, better precision etc. With the other Heavies, once you get the Sentinel, it renders the Basic virtually useless.

It even costs the same. So when you unlock the Sentinel suit, why would you pay the same amount of ISK for a Basic suit with less PG/CPU, less shield/armor, and no Sentinel role bonuses? Other than the Amarr with the different slot layout options it gives you, it makes no sense.

Also works for a Commandos that are trying to get to that suit.

Basic suits in general need to have CCP Rattati, LogiBro and the community have a discussion on what they actually are for, what role they should have on the battlefield, what the community would want out of them.

Alot of people complain about heavies with light weaponry. And in most cases the player they are complaining about is just a player in a STD Basic Heavy suit working to a Commando.

This is the stupidity of the forums.

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Apison Valusgeffen X Death Before Dishonour X 36	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:02:00 - [1] - Quote Why is the Amarr Basic heavy the only one with a different slot layout than it's Sentinel counterpart? All the other racial heavies have exactly the same layout whether you are Basic or Sentinel. So is the Basic heavy just a place holder until you can spec into the Sentinel? And if so, why is the Amarr different? With the Amarr Basic you at least have a layout option in case you want to fit a suit for a specific situation, i.e. extra shields, more damage, better precision etc. With the other Heavies, once you get the Sentinel, it renders the Basic virtually useless. It even costs the same. So when you unlock the Sentinel suit, why would you pay the same amount of ISK for a Basic suit with less PG/CPU, less shield/armor, and no Sentinel role bonuses? Other than the Amarr with the different slot layout options it gives you, it makes no sense. "You shot who in the what now?" Jasper Beardly, The Simpsons: Season 7 - Episode 1 Circa 1995
Midas Fool Prophets of the Velocirapture 514	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:50:00 - [2] - Quote Progression /shrug ADV/PRO: 'Bishop' AmrLogistics, 'Commissar' CalSentinel, 'Rodelero' AmrScout, 'Legionnaire' CalAssault
Apison Valusgeffen X Death Before Dishonour X 38	Posted - 2014.07.22 06:38:00 - [3] - Quote What sort of progression? "You shot who in the what now?" Jasper Beardly, The Simpsons: Season 7 - Episode 1 Circa 1995
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3111	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:21:00 - [4] - Quote Apison Valusgeffen wrote: What sort of progression? The bad kind. Ideally, the basic suits SHOULD cost less as a money saving alternative, but I don't believe they actually do. H M G
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 395	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:47:00 - [5] - Quote i use the standard sentinel all the time because it's cheap and I'm level 5 so i get the passive skill Speak out against the heavy QQ
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2448	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:47:00 - [6] - Quote Frame suits should have strong but generic bonuses that don't really tie it to any particular role. Overall it should be general purpose and useful for any role, but fall behind in specific roles taken by the specialty suits. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 798	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:59:00 - [7] - Quote Apison Valusgeffen wrote: Why is the Amarr Basic heavy the only one with a different slot layout than it's Sentinel counterpart? All the other racial heavies have exactly the same layout whether you are Basic or Sentinel. So is the Basic heavy just a place holder until you can spec into the Sentinel? And if so, why is the Amarr different? With the Amarr Basic you at least have a layout option in case you want to fit a suit for a specific situation, i.e. extra shields, more damage, better precision etc. With the other Heavies, once you get the Sentinel, it renders the Basic virtually useless. It even costs the same. So when you unlock the Sentinel suit, why would you pay the same amount of ISK for a Basic suit with less PG/CPU, less shield/armor, and no Sentinel role bonuses? Other than the Amarr with the different slot layout options it gives you, it makes no sense. It is just an SP sink to make it cost more to specialize that gets zero attention because it is not used at all. It is no different than light suits level 3 for scout or medium level 3 for assault and logi. These suits are totally overlooked and really a waste of space because they provide no bonuses or any real incentive to run them.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 574	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:00:00 - [8] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: i use the standard sentinel all the time because it's cheap and I'm level 5 so i get the passive skill Not actually what OP is referring to. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 798	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:02:00 - [9] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: i use the standard sentinel all the time because it's cheap and I'm level 5 so i get the passive skill Not actually what OP is referring to. This proves how unknown the basic suits of all types really are.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 430	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:09:00 - [10] - Quote "Why is the Amarr Basic heavy the only one with a different slot layout than it's Sentinel counterpart?" Clue: Look at Imperial Ammar Commando gk.0 probably more 'bugs' in this system :) Not much time left...

Edgar Reinhart Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:16:00 - [11] - Quote I agree with some of the above points. It's not just the basic heavy that's virtually pointless it's pretty much all the basic suits. In my, limited, opinion the basic medium suit should be the suit to which all other suits are balanced. My unpopular suggestion would be that the specialised frames should give up some of their customisation options for better passive bonuses but understand why this isn't really an option.
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 133	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:43:00 - [12] - Quote Edgar Reinhart wrote: I agree with some of the above points. It's not just the basic heavy that's virtually pointless it's pretty much all the basic suits. In my, limited, opinion the basic medium suit should be the suit to which all other suits are balanced. My unpopular suggestion would be that the specialised frames should give up some of their customisation options for better passive bonuses but understand why this isn't really an option. You have it backwards, which is the ongoing side effect for the wrongly used term tiericide. Upfront we should just all admit that basic frames should be completely removed from the game to begin with as a useless SP sink that will never see iteration because of the new dev realities we must contend with, IE we're never getting another light frame etc. Now in a world of rainbows and unicorns the abject goal of a medium suit should be trying to beat special suits with pure slots. For example medium frames you could stick an extra equip slot and maybe another another high or low on it an suddenly I might be willing to trade my assault bonuses to pick up the extra flexibility of a medium frame, and we didnt even have to trust CCP on making not bad bonuses for the medium. Of course if the assault bonus is just so freaking cool for what I want to do theres always a reason to run a specialty assault suit like the amarr one. Its a significantly easier and more likely beneficial way of handling basic frames than the terrible redraw the whole game from the ground up to really solve an ulterior motive of destroying gear progression by throwing about not applicable eve terms in ways they weren't actually utilized anyways.
TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn Going for the gold 9	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:48:00 - [13] - Quote Well... I use the militia basic amarr heavy suit with an HMG. Kind of a cheap way of getting kills lol. Shotgunner for life.
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 184	Posted - 2014.07.22 09:45:00 - [14] - Quote its a legacy thing from when the only heavy suit was the amarr suit and the sentinel was a specialized heavy suit for armour tanking. then the other races got heavies and the specs were cut and pasted. maybe for hotfix zeta heavies will get overhauled and genericized like the logis are getting for charlie. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 51	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:19:00 - [15] - Quote Forge gun
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2086	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:22:00 - [16] - Quote My adv MinHeavy runs faster... Trades like 200 armor for it though. Also: the Gallente Sentinel can kincat stack better than my Commando. GG CCP. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2271	Posted - 2014.07.22 17:34:00 - [17] - Quote Apison Valusgeffen wrote: Why is the Amarr Basic heavy the only one with a different slot layout than it's Sentinel counterpart? All the other racial heavies have exactly the same layout whether you are Basic or Sentinel. So is the Basic heavy just a place holder until you can spec into the Sentinel? And if so, why is the Amarr different? With the Amarr Basic you at least have a layout option in case you want to fit a suit for a specific situation, i.e. extra shields, more damage, better precision etc. With the other Heavies, once you get the Sentinel, it renders the Basic virtually useless. It even costs the same. So when you unlock the Sentinel suit, why would you pay the same amount of ISK for a Basic suit with less PG/CPU, less shield/armor, and no Sentinel role bonuses? Other than the Amarr with the different slot layout options it gives you, it makes no sense. Also works for a Commandos that are trying to get to that suit. Basic suits in general need to have CCP Rattati, LogiBro and the community have a discussion on what they actually are for, what role they should have on the battlefield, what the community would want out of them. Alot of people complain about heavies with light weaponry. And in most cases the player they are complaining about is just a player in a STD Basic Heavy suit working to a Commando. This is the stupidity of the forums.
CommanderBolt Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1391	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:07:00 - [18] - Quote I'm not sure if anyone cares what I have to say but I will say it anyway... Coming from eve and being a bit of a completionist at times, when I started this game, I speced into MANY of the basic variant suits, all the way to proto/level5. At one point there was reason to do this, back when we had type a / b and other random stuff. CCP even stated they were looking at making them actually different, both offering something different. Sadly things changed and CCP never did make anything of the 'basic' tree suits. Needless to say take it from me, DO NOT bother with basic tree suits. Go straight for the roles. That's the first thing I did the 1st time I got a respec. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
JUDASisMYhomeboy xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 51	Posted - 2014.07.22 18:07:00 - [19] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Apison Valusgeffen wrote: Why is the Amarr Basic heavy the only one with a different slot layout than it's Sentinel counterpart? All the other racial heavies have exactly the same layout whether you are Basic or Sentinel. So is the Basic heavy just a place holder until you can spec into the Sentinel? And if so, why is the Amarr different? With the Amarr Basic you at least have a layout option in case you want to fit a suit for a specific situation, i.e. extra shields, more damage, better precision etc. With the other Heavies, once you get the Sentinel, it renders the Basic virtually useless. It even costs the same. So when you unlock the Sentinel suit, why would you pay the same amount of ISK for a Basic suit with less PG/CPU, less shield/armor, and no Sentinel role bonuses? Other than the Amarr with the different slot layout options it gives you, it makes no sense. Also works for a Commandos that are trying to get to that suit. Basic suits in general need to have CCP Rattati, LogiBro and the community have a discussion on what they actually are for, what role they should have on the battlefield, what the community would want out of them. Alot of people complain about heavies with light weaponry. And in most cases the player they are complaining about is just a player in a STD Basic Heavy suit working to a Commando. This is the stupidity of the forums. yeah because before commando EVERYONE was running heavies with light weapons
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 584	Posted - 2014.07.22 23:34:00 - [20] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Apison Valusgeffen wrote: Why is the Amarr Basic heavy the only one with a different slot layout than it's Sentinel counterpart? All the other racial heavies have exactly the same layout whether you are Basic or Sentinel. So is the Basic heavy just a place holder until you can spec into the Sentinel? And if so, why is the Amarr different? With the Amarr Basic you at least have a layout option in case you want to fit a suit for a specific situation, i.e. extra shields, more damage, better precision etc. With the other Heavies, once you get the Sentinel, it renders the Basic virtually useless. It even costs the same. So when you unlock the Sentinel suit, why would you pay the same amount of ISK for a Basic suit with less PG/CPU, less shield/armor, and no Sentinel role bonuses? Other than the Amarr with the different slot layout options it gives you, it makes no sense. Also works for a Commandos that are trying to get to that suit. Basic suits in general need to have CCP Rattati, LogiBro and the community have a discussion on what they actually are for, what role they should have on the battlefield, what the community would want out of them. Alot of people complain about heavies with light weaponry. And in most cases the player they are complaining about is just a player in a STD Basic Heavy suit working to a Commando. This is the stupidity of the forums. So is that what to call it when it's a Sentinel, like it so often is? I think the height of your horse has rarefied your air and is slowing your brain. You should come down. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1

Zindorak 1.U.P 166	Posted - 2014.07.22 23:36:00 - [21] - Quote easier way to get proto i guess Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1063	Posted - 2014.07.23 01:21:00 - [22] - Quote Jack Boost wrote: This is proof that CCP has more forgoten configuration then only amarr basic heavy. Lots of militia eq (not only for dropsuits) have forgoten stats making them 'WHAT THE F..K!" at battlefield. Lp store , BPO, special editions item ... all together has a lot of combinations :). We have hope that for Legion all this will be clear like sky at sunday. Maybe if CCP had type inheritance. Cough Cough Pokes Logibro and SoxFour Cough Cough Then again, it's a tad late for that. Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.


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