| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3545
   |
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rattati allready put his attention on me claiming that you are not changing the balance of suits upside down to encourage booster sales. If this is the case then you wouldnt mind to allow us to reallocate our SP that has beeing spend on ligh dropsuits/scouts. The changes which are about to happend are a huge balance and playstyle shift in the light suit category where you either take away bonuses or replace them with something totally different which we didnt wanted.
Prime example for this is the shift from the scan precision bonus from the caldari scout to the amarr scout. And to some extend giving gallente scout aswell a scan precision bonus. 3 out of 4 suits are basically beeing flipped upside down in their roles. I highly recommend that you allow players who specced into light frames/scouts to reallocate their skillpoints from that category. Except of course that your plan is to get players to buy boosters to quickly spec into their desired role. |
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1241
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Do scouts still scout?
Stop being a ***** about speccing FOTM and getting slapped for it.
Didn't you do this with a Cal logi too? Your own damn fault for spending SP on a role you didn't like.
Do you just secretly have flaylock prof 5 and you want those millions back from yet another scrub chase?
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
|
hold that
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
152
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
and this has to do with p2w how? |
Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
3587
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Compare it to a real P2W game?
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3547
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Do scouts still scout?
Stop being a ***** about speccing FOTM and getting slapped for it.
Didn't you do this with a Cal logi too? Your own damn fault for spending SP on a role you didn't like.
Do you just secretly have flaylock prof 5 and you want those millions back from yet another scrub chase?
I neither have cal. logis nor cal. scouts specced. |
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1244
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Doubtful, if tanks got nerfed like they seemed, I'm sure you needed something else to get by with.
Scrub scout seems right up your alley.
Either way, just say no to respecs. It cheapens the whole your choices matter ethos.
Every class goes through swings. You roll the dice you take your chances. When people get upset that their class got nerfed, maybe they shouldn't have spent so much time abusing their advantage to the point of creating data outliers that need to be examined.
CCP doesn't balance in a vacuum. They may not really understand the data they are getting, or may not be able to properly interpret the results, but they can certainly recognize patterns in the data created from swings of the playerbase towards certain weapon/suits/fits/ etc.
If the skill tree is not being altered in structure, no respecs.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
|
Atiim
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
10501
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Doubtful, if tanks got nerfed like they seemed,
Nothing happened to V/AV other than a Hardener nerf, a bug that was preventing AV weapon proficiency from applying being fixed , and a dispersion mechanic being added to 80/20GJ Blasters.
The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers!
-HAND
|
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3548
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Doubtful, if tanks got nerfed like they seemed, I'm sure you needed something else to get by with.
Scrub scout seems right up your alley.
Either way, just say no to respecs. It cheapens the whole your choices matter ethos.
Every class goes through swings. You roll the dice you take your chances. When people get upset that their class got nerfed, maybe they shouldn't have spent so much time abusing their advantage to the point of creating data outliers that need to be examined.
CCP doesn't balance in a vacuum. They may not really understand the data they are getting, or may not be able to properly interpret the results, but they can certainly recognize patterns in the data created from swings of the playerbase towards certain weapon/suits/fits/ etc.
If the skill tree is not being altered in structure, no respecs.
There is a difference between nerfing bonuses (which would still be there) and completely removing or shifting them to other suits. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2340
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't see what people have against just spending newly earned SP on new stuff. I mean, its OK to not max something out in order to enjoy it yeah? I played Commando Lvl 1 for a long time before I decided to really start putting points into it, and even had to grind out Level 4 and 5 despite having 40m+ SP.
You dont need a respec, just skill into something else like a new player would. **** if I got to respec every time they drastically changed how my ships performed in EVE, I'd have been able to remake my character so many damn times
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
|
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3550
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 16:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I don't see what people have against just spending newly earned SP on new stuff. I mean, its OK to not max something out in order to enjoy it yeah? I played Commando Lvl 1 for a long time before I decided to really start putting points into it, and even had to grind out Level 4 and 5 despite having 40m+ SP.
You dont need a respec, just skill into something else like a new player would. **** if I got to respec every time they drastically changed how my ships performed in EVE, I'd have been able to remake my character so many damn times
Erm no. We are talking about players who allready have proto scouts due to their unique bonuses and not some scrubs who just got into it with lvl1. You are one of these sheeps that willingly buy AUR to get boosters and more SP. People like you are the reason why CCP thinks they get away with this stuff. |
|
|
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1245
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 16:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Atiim wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Doubtful, if tanks got nerfed like they seemed, Nothing happened to V/AV other than a Hardener nerf, a bug that was preventing AV weapon proficiency from applying being fixed , and a dispersion mechanic being added to 80/20GJ Blasters.
I played only a couple of matches since fanfest. The rail range was a joke and fitting variation was just trash.
You never knew anything about using tanks, so they removal of real enjoyment from the class would of course be a mystery to you.
Doesn't matter, dead game is dead, Legion is a pipedream, so they should really just remove the SP cap, and crank the match rewards up 1000x so that everyone can be equally skilled within a month, and no one can complain.
Just no respecs for silly fools who couldn't invest their SP properly.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2341
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 16:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I don't see what people have against just spending newly earned SP on new stuff. I mean, its OK to not max something out in order to enjoy it yeah? I played Commando Lvl 1 for a long time before I decided to really start putting points into it, and even had to grind out Level 4 and 5 despite having 40m+ SP.
You dont need a respec, just skill into something else like a new player would. **** if I got to respec every time they drastically changed how my ships performed in EVE, I'd have been able to remake my character so many damn times Erm no. We are talking about players who allready have proto scouts due to their unique bonuses and not some scrubs who just got into it with lvl1. You are one of these sheeps that willingly buy AUR to get boosters and more SP. People like you are the reason why CCP thinks they get away with this stuff.
haha Never used a an peice of AUR gear in my life bro. Unless you're talking about my OP Militia Module BPOs.
**** changes. I didnt cry when my Logi lost its base Armor Repair, or my Assault lost its bonus to shield recharge, or my Commando module bonuses. You shrug your shoulders and adapt to it.
As for AUR/booster sales, I'm curious, in a free to play game, how do you expect the company to pay for development if they don't sell something?
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
|
Tank Gorilla
Killing them swiftly
76
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 16:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ccp wants that mola bro
Lets just say a lot of people see me and run.....
I'll leave it at that.
|
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1245
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 16:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:
Erm no. We are talking about players who allready have proto scouts due to their unique bonuses and not some scrubs who just got into it with lvl1. You are one of these sheeps that willingly buy AUR to get boosters and more SP. People like you are the reason why CCP thinks they get away with this stuff.
Fully titted out scout takes what 16 mill SP, of which only 2.7 is the suit, and most of the rest is applicable to everything else.
2.7 is a month, and you will have an advanced scout suit of your choice in 1 week. OMG for 3 weeks of needing to get your new preferred proto suit.
HTFU is actually appropriate here, and is so issued.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
|
Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
1118
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 16:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Either way, just say no to respecs. It cheapens the whole your choices matter ethos.
Yeah, no. CCP has cheapened the whole "your choices matter ethos" several times by completely changing things people have chosen into things they would have never chosen.
Can't say I'm all that surprised.
I've been drinking and may be drunk.... probably like most dust players.
|
RayRay James
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
235
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 18:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Either way, just say no to respecs. It cheapens the whole your choices matter ethos.
Yeah, no. CCP has cheapened the whole "your choices matter ethos" several times by completely changing things people have chosen into things they would have never chosen.
Things change man. People want balance, but when it effects them they scream RESPEC
I was going to type out a list of things that have changed in just the ships i used in eve over the past 8 years, then I realized I don't have 3 days to respond to you.
Don't like it, quit playing. Don't like it but don't want to quit playing, then HTFU. |
Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
568
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 18:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
I didn't know dust had a p2w issue... in the almost 2 years I have been here I have only seen pay to lose.
I buy boosters get sp spec into stuff ccp nerfs it, I lose
I buy bpo's ccp removes some, I lose
people buy aur gear, it gets nerfed or lost forever in a match.... lose
I spent about 500$ on dust....now its getting cancelled for legion... makes me a big loser..... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15926
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 18:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
You do realize that doing a respec is a excessively manual task and there are no tools currently to automate this?
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
|
STABBEY
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
509
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 19:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
At this point most good players have the SP to specc in to multiple suits who needs a respec when every1 should have 30-60mill SP?
Unless your a noob. 
Gÿú GÖ¦ Gÿñ Gäó © sç+(¬GÇ+¬)sç+ (-éGîú¦Ç_Gîú¦ü)ßòñ
Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ-Vet-GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ+¦Gû¼Gû¼
+¬(GùŦ«¦âGÇó)¦¦ (GùúGùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ (a+ç'¦Ç-'¦ü)a+ç GöîGê¬GöÉ(Gùú_Gùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ
|
STABBEY
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
509
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 19:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
STABBEY wrote:At this point most good players have the SP to specc in to multiple suits who needs a respec when every1 should have 30-60mill SP? Unless your a noob.
PS. Dust is not P2W lol... Its rare to see people running BPO gear these days due to the mass Proto users and of Course the heavy spam.
Gÿú GÖ¦ Gÿñ Gäó © sç+(¬GÇ+¬)sç+ (-éGîú¦Ç_Gîú¦ü)ßòñ
Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ-Vet-GòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉGòÉ+¦Gû¼Gû¼
+¬(GùŦ«¦âGÇó)¦¦ (GùúGùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ (a+ç'¦Ç-'¦ü)a+ç GöîGê¬GöÉ(Gùú_Gùó)GöîGê¬GöÉ
|
|
|
Michael Arck
4861
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 20:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
If they want to cater to weaker gamers' complaints, why the hell not?
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
|
richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
876
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 20:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
STABBEY wrote:STABBEY wrote:At this point most good players have the SP to specc in to multiple suits who needs a respec when every1 should have 30-60mill SP? Unless your a noob. PS. Dust is not P2W lol... Its rare to see people running BPO gear these days due to the mass Proto users and of Course the heavy spam.
I see a lot of BPO heavys :P
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
|
CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
RISE of LEGION
1327
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 20:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Do scouts still scout?
Stop being a ***** about speccing FOTM and getting slapped for it.
Didn't you do this with a Cal logi too? Your own damn fault for spending SP on a role you didn't like.
Do you just secretly have flaylock prof 5 and you want those millions back from yet another scrub chase?
While I somewhat agree,
personally I have always had the Gallente scout. The day I purchased into the beta I had the Dragonfly Scout. Once CCP originally changed things up and reallocated our SP the Gall scout was in part the long range passive scanner.
That is no longer the case.
-=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=-
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
"I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
|
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3555
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
For some of you delusional morons who think im referring to equipment or suits:
CCP is not flipping the balance upside down due to the players, no they give one of the most important bonuses to the scout which is the least used one. Which is basically forcing the competetive players to buy boosters to catch up before or shortly after the changes hit. I hope this clears the misconception about P2W (boosters). |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
911
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Who or why would anyone be against a SP refund ???
Even more so with the state of the game as it currently is ???
I mean , how long will you stand up for the company that jerked most out of FF and not the community who supported it and the same company ..???... all most who want refunds want to do is to enjoy the game and place their hard earned SP's in places that they choose , I mean ... how is that a problem on a game that already is on life-support ?
That's just selfish and stupid to keep upholding some written statement from a company that has made many statements that they will never uphold but you have some in the community that will stand up and fight for CCP tooth and nail .
Just look up the gentleman who went to FF and his post , just the fact that it was locked afterwards shows how insensitive CCP really is to it's consumers who they milked for months beforehand .
All of you pushing against this it's just silly .
This game needs a refund or at least the one that should have happened during 1.8 .
It will bring excitement and money to this game from playing a exciting game but most of you have tunnel vision and can't see past your outreached arms .
Sad ... just sad that most of you against a SP refund would love to have players do twice the work and have less fun all for the name of a company that said " screw you console players " , a few months ago .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
|
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
911
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Most of you doing so are from EVE and that's why you just don't want Dust to have a SP refund .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
|
J0LLY R0G3R
And the ButtPirates
991
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
XD
Vid of : J0LLY Failing at WarFrame on PS4
|
Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
1120
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Thumb Green wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Either way, just say no to respecs. It cheapens the whole your choices matter ethos.
Yeah, no. CCP has cheapened the whole "your choices matter ethos" several times by completely changing things people have chosen into things they would have never chosen. Things change man
Yes but when I choose to buy a Corvette it doesn't change into a Pinto. CCP has drastically changed so many things since open beta that "Your choices matter" is complete bullsh!t and that's just the point I was trying to make.
Can't say I'm all that surprised.
I've been drinking and may be drunk.... probably like most dust players.
|
Happy Violentime
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
694
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:You do realize that doing a respec is a excessively manual task and there are no tools currently to automate this?
Why do I always hear this? All somebody needs to do is run a damn SQL script on the DB. |
Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
587
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
richiesutie 2 wrote:STABBEY wrote:STABBEY wrote:At this point most good players have the SP to specc in to multiple suits who needs a respec when every1 should have 30-60mill SP? Unless your a noob. PS. Dust is not P2W lol... Its rare to see people running BPO gear these days due to the mass Proto users and of Course the heavy spam. I see a lot of BPO heavys :P
I use bpo's 80% of the time. |
|
|
Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
3591
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:RayRay James wrote:Thumb Green wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Either way, just say no to respecs. It cheapens the whole your choices matter ethos.
Yeah, no. CCP has cheapened the whole "your choices matter ethos" several times by completely changing things people have chosen into things they would have never chosen. Things change man Yes but when I choose to buy a Corvette it doesn't change into a Pinto. CCP has drastically changed so many things since open beta that "Your choices matter" is complete bullsh!t and that's just the point I was trying to make.
That corvette cost over $40, dust cost $0.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
1121
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
That's entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.
Can't say I'm all that surprised.
I've been drinking and may be drunk.... probably like most dust players.
|
Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
3591
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:That's entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.
It was a bad point. Stuff changes in the game, it's called balancing.
Speak up when other peoples stuff gets balanced, not just yours. Pitch a idea in how to balance your weapon/suit instead of just saying "don't nerf it"
It's the people who refuse to give anything who lose the most.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
1122
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Thumb Green wrote:That's entirely irrelevant to the point I was making. It was a bad point. Stuff changes in the game, it's called balancing. Speak up when other peoples stuff gets balanced, not just yours. Pitch a idea in how to balance your weapon/suit instead of just saying "don't nerf it" It's the people who refuse to give anything who lose the most.
No it's a good point, because it's a true point. Our choices do not matter in this game. I'm not complaining about the changes that have been made and are being made, I'm just pointing out that saying "our choices matter" is complete and utter bullsh!t.
Can't say I'm all that surprised.
I've been drinking and may be drunk.... probably like most dust players.
|
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1252
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:For some of you delusional morons who think im referring to equipment or suits:
CCP is not flipping the balance upside down due to the players, no they give one of the most important bonuses to the scout which is the least used one. Which is basically forcing the competetive players to buy boosters to catch up before or shortly after the changes hit. I hope this clears the misconception about P2W (boosters).
Then this just you being a baby, and a rather large one at that.
Did the release of Hotfix Charlie affect your PC experience today? Of course not, because it has not yet been released. You have time to save SP, so there is no reason to complain.
Properly allocate your SP over the next few weeks and you will be fine, no boosters needed.
Calling this P2W when there once was a time when there actually were P2W problems with this title is not needed, and although typical from you, there is really no need for a drama queen with a dead game.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
|
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1252
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:
Yes but when I choose to buy a Corvette it doesn't change into a Pinto. CCP has drastically changed so many things since open beta that "Your choices matter" is complete bullsh!t and that's just the point I was trying to make.
The balance changes that have happened have not drastically altered that many roles, and people making those claims are overeaching.
The most glaring change happened with Uprising and the combat logi phase of the game, and since that was accompanied with both of the respecs, it was no wonder that the community turned it into a clusterf*ck.
Beyond that, most of the suit changes have still kept the overall role intact, the changes have merely affected the efficiency of the particular suit at that role.
Again though, you can't be up in arms about CCP making you regrind a suit or buy a booster to make up for it, it is baked into the games design, and if you haven't picked that up by now, then don't get mad at CCP.
Consider it as you bought a car, there was recall, and although you lost (or gained) 100 hp, it still was dealership approved and is road legal.
When I see demands for respecs after someones suit gets buffed, then this class of argument might bear some examination. Otherwise it always reads like sour grapes with few exceptions.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
|
GeneralButtNaked
Fatal Absolution
1252
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 23:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:
It will bring excitement and money to this game from playing a exciting game but most of you have tunnel vision and can't see past your outreached arms .
Sad ... just sad that most of you against a SP refund would love to have players do twice the work and have less fun all for the name of a company that said " screw you console players " , a few months ago .
It will not bring money, but it might make things fresh for some people, for a short time.
Most of the arguments for respecs are just people being babies about their stuff getting nerfed.
Considering that most of these people have been through this now 5 or 6 times, I have no sympathy for them. They know the deal, they know CCP sucks, and they are still playing, so why should I feel pity for them? Because they can't move on to another game when the time has clearly come?
Keep demanding that CCP do something that isn't in their financial interest at a time when the company is in deep financial ****. I'm sure that will work out perfectly for you.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
|
Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
3591
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 00:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Thumb Green wrote:That's entirely irrelevant to the point I was making. It was a bad point. Stuff changes in the game, it's called balancing. Speak up when other peoples stuff gets balanced, not just yours. Pitch a idea in how to balance your weapon/suit instead of just saying "don't nerf it" It's the people who refuse to give anything who lose the most. No it's a good point, because it's a true point. Our choices do not matter in this game. I'm not complaining about the changes that have been made and are being made, I'm just pointing out that saying "our choices matter" is complete and utter bullsh!t.
Well I can't argue with that, but the whole thing kind of went out the window with the Legion annocement.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
|
Leeroy Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
483
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 01:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Atiim wrote:GeneralButtNaked wrote:Doubtful, if tanks got nerfed like they seemed, Nothing happened to V/AV other than a Hardener nerf, a bug that was preventing AV weapon proficiency from applying being fixed , and a dispersion mechanic being added to 80/20GJ Blasters.
You forgot repairers and railgun range.
It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |