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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4081
   |
Posted - 2014.07.11 08:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Sentinel gk.0
1 High
4 Low
Assault gk.0
3 High
4 Low
Scout gk.0
2 High
4 Low
Madrugar
2 High
3 Low
Methana
1 High
2 Low
Grimsnes
2 High
4 Low
Grimsnes (6 Slots) , Madrugar (5 Slots) , Methana (3 Slots)
As you can see, Medium dropsuits and Medium Hull vehicles retain the most slots to fit. But then look at Heavies versus Scouts, HAV versus LAV. They are the same in weight class by comparison however have completely upside down slot configs. In the case of the infantry, the Scout has the more high slots over the heavy yet in the instance of the HAV v. LAV, the HAV not only has more low slots but it has more high slots as well.
Why is this an issue? I feel as if a Madrugar has more utility over a Methana because of it's high slots.
So let's look at the Methana. It's got more HP than a Saga so it's not so bad off in terms of HP but it is still a light vehicle and much easier to take out then an Incubus or a Madrugar. It has a high top speed perhaps the fastest but it's acceleration is poor. It's painfully slow off the mark at times and makes you wish overdrives were available on the market still. It can not fit a large turret, it only has a single small turret and a passenger.
Compare that to the Madrugar. Madrugar holds 3 people (same as Methana) with 3 turrets one being large, 2 high slots and 3 low slots. I believe that the low slots are fine because they contribute to reppers, hardener, and/or plates and are thus very important to the essence of the Madrugar.
But why does it need a 2nd High slot? The second high slot is a huge advantage and most probably overlook it. It's the power to scan all your enemies and GTFO when they bring the heat (Scanner & Nitro). Thus mobility issues are conquered and it becomes a scanning platform at the same time becoming the ultimate machine for squad support and self support. The issue is specifically the high slot. Another low slot on the Methana could herald the return of LLVs. No one wants to see ridiculously tanked Methanas much like no one wants to see ridiculously tanked scouts.
So lets simplify this:
Methana
-Low HP
-High Speed
-Low Slot Count
-Low Turret count
-Low Cost
Analysis: Low Utility, little use as a squad support tool
Madrugar
-High HP
-Low Speed
-High Slot Count
-High Turret Count
-Higher Cost
Analysis: High Utility, diverse and powerful asset,
So the difference between a light frame and heavy frame Gallente is 1 high slot in the favor of the light frame whereas the difference between a light and a heavy Gallente vehicle is 2 slots in favor of the Madrugar but there is price difference. However a Grimsnes costs less than a Madrugar yet has more overall slots. So the logic between price=slots really breaks down.
Proposal: Remove High Slot from Madrugar and give it to the Methana. Thus the Methana and Madrugar would share slot count but vary in configuration. The Light frames in infantry have a slot count advantage over heavy frames but as you know there is also no price disparity between the two thus it would be fair if they were equal in slot count as vehicles. The reason is because the LAV's primary defense mechanism is it's speed. Other than that it has little to defend it.
It would promote a healthy vehicle ecosystem where Methanas acted as Scanning platforms that supported the HAVs, not HAVs supporting Methanas. It's very disturbing that Madrugars have the power to scan and then launch themselves at great speeds with Nitro. I find the sacrifices of the Methana versus Madrugar very one sided, heaped upon a vehicle that gets little attention.
In relation to Sagas, I can not speak for them very well. However I think they'd prefer another high slot as well seeing as how Scanners & Nitro, really some essential modules of the LAV, take up shield module space. A 3r'd High Slot on a Saga seems appropriate but I really can not weigh in there if some one can please speak up.
TLDR:
Madrugar Proposed Slots: 1 High 3 Low
Methana Proposed Slots: 2 High 2 Low
Gives the Methana another defense mechanism which they really lack on paper and really does nerf the Madrugar no nice way to say it but it seems out of place seeing a Maddy scan you and then Boost their way out of harm.
I'd like to hear the opinion of tankers too but please leave the whine in France.
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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Takahashi Kashuken
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 12:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
So basically nerf the tank yet again
Maddys used to have a 5/2 now we have a 3/2 and its still too much
Are you ******* kidding me?
We dont have adv/proto hulls so we cant even improve our defences
The mods we have got are nerfed even more, we have less useful skills, we have less turrets, we have less variety because we have so many useless modules
Kicker is now they cant even defend themselves now against AV users, blaster is terrible, lolmissiles, railguns only a direct hit that is if it doesnt glitch up on you
Just come out and ask for vehicles to be removed |
Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4082
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 16:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Takahashi Kashuken wrote:So basically nerf the tank yet again
Maddys used to have a 5/2 now we have a 3/2 and its still too much
Are you ******* kidding me?
We dont have adv/proto hulls so we cant even improve our defences
The mods we have got are nerfed even more, we have less useful skills, we have less turrets, we have less variety because we have so many useless modules
Kicker is now they cant even defend themselves now against AV users, blaster is terrible, lolmissiles, railguns only a direct hit that is if it doesnt glitch up on you
Just come out and ask for vehicles to be removed
Boy you don't understand jack
The Methana used to have 3/2 now it has 2/1 and it's not enough.
Methana doesn't have adv/proto mods and it really needs defense improvement more than a madrugar who can scan and boost.
A methana has even less turret variety strictly limited to basically the 20GJ railgun small blaster is a huge joke 10 times more than a large blaster and missiles are an issue just like large missiles are, not enough elevation to hit with.
As if it was just as easy for a Methana to defend against AV
Come out and ask for vehicles to be removed you're a moron I just asked to buff the Methana
I said leave the whine at France
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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Takahashi Kashuken
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
116
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 16:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Takahashi Kashuken wrote:So basically nerf the tank yet again
Maddys used to have a 5/2 now we have a 3/2 and its still too much
Are you ******* kidding me?
We dont have adv/proto hulls so we cant even improve our defences
The mods we have got are nerfed even more, we have less useful skills, we have less turrets, we have less variety because we have so many useless modules
Kicker is now they cant even defend themselves now against AV users, blaster is terrible, lolmissiles, railguns only a direct hit that is if it doesnt glitch up on you
Just come out and ask for vehicles to be removed Boy you don't understand jack The Methana used to have 3/2 now it has 2/1 and it's not enough. Methana doesn't have adv/proto mods and it really needs defense improvement more than a madrugar who can scan and boost. A methana has even less turret variety strictly limited to basically the 20GJ railgun small blaster is a huge joke 10 times more than a large blaster and missiles are an issue just like large missiles are, not enough elevation to hit with. As if it was just as easy for a Methana to defend against AV Come out and ask for vehicles to be removed you're a moron I just asked to buff the MethanaI said leave the whine at France
While nerfing the maddy
How ******* dense are you?
You just asked to take away another slot from the maddy, how is that just asking for a buff to the methana?
Why dont you ask for a adv/proto hull for the LAV?
With adv/proto you get more slots and pg/cpu to fit more things
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4085
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 18:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahashi Kashuken wrote:
While nerfing the maddy
How ******* dense are you?
You just asked to take away another slot from the maddy, how is that just asking for a buff to the methana?
Why dont you ask for a adv/proto hull for the LAV?
With adv/proto you get more slots and pg/cpu to fit more things
Just as is just recently not just as in only I know very well what I am asking for
also ADV/PRO hull has never existed and never will asking for that is like asking for nothing at all
I'm asking for a realistic goal. The Madrugar low slots are completely fine it just has an extra high slot which gives it a lot of power. I look at the Methana and really it is hindered to specific areas, mostly Infantry harassment.
The Scout has a slot advantage over the heavies for a very good reason, because they have a very module intensive role. You got codebreakers and really need to stack precision enhancers, gotta throw on range amps, a green bottle or maybe those reps and always dampeners. A heavy really just needs a damage mod because it just tanks and inflicts damage really a 2 module gig but it's always nice to see those heavies who are being unique.
However you compare Heavy and Scout slots and see some reason to it but then you look at a Madrugar and Methana and the Methana is at a 2 slot disadvantage! It lacks a useful role on the battlefield and the Madrugar is kind of like the "everything vehicle" you can do so much more with a Madrugar than a Methana and I believe Madrugar is infringing upon areas of specialty where it should not be.
If you limit a Madrugar to one high slot you don't lose out on tank modules so the effectiveness as a machine of death is really only marginally dropped by forcing the operators to make a choice between what high slot they should dedicate. Why should it have more high slots, the most versatile slot, over the lesser HP vehicle.
The lesser HP vehicle needs to have more versatility to it's use because of its lack of health. It's very disturbing to try and sneak up on an HAV in my Methana only to be scanned, and then chased down because it can fit a Nitro too.
One or the other, is a choice the Madrugar, the more armored and well rounded vehicle, should have to make. How many people look at the Methana and say "I'm going to choose this over a Madrugar".....not very many at all there is very little sane draw to a Methana.
Methana requires two people to operate at minimum for function and a Madrugar requires one yet it gets all the more slots....
Be realistic and see that Madrugars have a superior edge over the Methana in nearly all ways shape and form.
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
2054
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 19:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:One or the other, is a choice the Madrugar, the more armored and well rounded vehicle, should have to make. How many people look at the Methana and say "I'm going to choose this over a Madrugar".....not very many at all there is very little sane draw to a Methana.
Methana requires two people to operate at minimum for function and a Madrugar requires one yet it gets all the more slots....
Be realistic and see that Madrugars have a superior edge over the Methana in nearly all ways shape and form.
*raises hand*
Methana is damn fun. It's cheaper than running a proto fit Madrugar, so it causes much less stress and worry about losing more than half a million with the Madrugar. Strap on a 20GJ particle accelerator and you can kill infantry with it in addition to road killing them. Just make sure you have a heavy suit and not to tap a tank.
Oh and tank hunting with it is fun. I've been able to bring down several Sicas (a plated Methana can withstand several militia rail shots so I've been able to eat a couple railgun shots as I lay the finishing blows).
If you're wondering for my fit, it's a basic scanner plus an enhanced 60mm plate and a complex light repper. I think slot layouts are fine (LAV vs HAV) but overall LAVs and HAVs need a few extra slots, like they did pre 1.7. Fits are just too limited with so little slots.
Oh and I drive my Methana solo. It's all about positioning yourself when going up against a tank.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Benjamin Ciscko
General Tso's Alliance
2461
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 19:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Um no.
Tanker/Logi
0 The number of 7ucks given
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wiseguy12
Ancient Legion
36
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 19:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takahashi Kashuken wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Takahashi Kashuken wrote:So basically nerf the tank yet again
Maddys used to have a 5/2 now we have a 3/2 and its still too much
Are you ******* kidding me?
We dont have adv/proto hulls so we cant even improve our defences
The mods we have got are nerfed even more, we have less useful skills, we have less turrets, we have less variety because we have so many useless modules
Kicker is now they cant even defend themselves now against AV users, blaster is terrible, lolmissiles, railguns only a direct hit that is if it doesnt glitch up on you
Just come out and ask for vehicles to be removed Boy you don't understand jack The Methana used to have 3/2 now it has 2/1 and it's not enough. Methana doesn't have adv/proto mods and it really needs defense improvement more than a madrugar who can scan and boost. A methana has even less turret variety strictly limited to basically the 20GJ railgun small blaster is a huge joke 10 times more than a large blaster and missiles are an issue just like large missiles are, not enough elevation to hit with. As if it was just as easy for a Methana to defend against AV Come out and ask for vehicles to be removed you're a moron I just asked to buff the MethanaI said leave the whine at France While nerfing the maddy How ******* dense are you? You just asked to take away another slot from the maddy, how is that just asking for a buff to the methana? Why dont you ask for a adv/proto hull for the LAV? With adv/proto you get more slots and pg/cpu to fit more things
I dont run tanks much but even I know that tanks are still over powered the blaster update helped, but LAV's are a novelty now. there is a need to fix tanks and give LAV's a buff. Also lavs need something to add a way to hold more people.
W.I.D.O.S. when in doubt orbital strike
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4086
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 20:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:One or the other, is a choice the Madrugar, the more armored and well rounded vehicle, should have to make. How many people look at the Methana and say "I'm going to choose this over a Madrugar".....not very many at all there is very little sane draw to a Methana.
Methana requires two people to operate at minimum for function and a Madrugar requires one yet it gets all the more slots....
Be realistic and see that Madrugars have a superior edge over the Methana in nearly all ways shape and form. *raises hand* Methana is damn fun. It's cheaper than running a proto fit Madrugar, so it causes much less stress and worry about losing more than half a million with the Madrugar. Strap on a 20GJ particle accelerator and you can kill infantry with it in addition to road killing them. Just make sure you have a heavy suit and not to tap a tank. Oh and tank hunting with it is fun. I've been able to bring down several Sicas (a plated Methana can withstand several militia rail shots so I've been able to eat a couple railgun shots as I lay the finishing blows). If you're wondering for my fit, it's a basic scanner plus an enhanced 60mm plate and a complex light repper. I think slot layouts are fine (LAV vs HAV) but overall LAVs and HAVs need a few extra slots, like they did pre 1.7. Fits are just too limited with so little slots. Oh and I drive my Methana solo. It's all about positioning yourself when going up against a tank.
Oh they are terribly fun
But when I tank hunt the only successful HAVs I can get are Sicas and some Somas. Even with 2 LAVs going up against a Gunnloggi and especially a Maddy is terribly difficult you might as well have a Swarm launcher.
An Anecdote: Last night Xeon, Foundation Seldon, Snow Turtle & I were having another normal LAV Research match. We're mobbin around taking out some guys, harassing the Incubus. But then this Madrugar with a Scanner & Nitro rolls up and we try to take him on but nope, couldn't break it. So we decide to flee but literally could not this thing was rolling just as fast as us almost and shootin' the Ion blaster at the same time we didn't make it.
So I take out REs figure that if we can't outmaneuver the tank we can at least trap it but nope. Scans show REs so he just takes those out.
I agree with you on the price. The price of the Methana is very worth it however there just isn't enough slots & modules to make it anything more than an slayer on wheels. We can't scan and run away it's one or the other. I would love to see the 2/3 module layout return but I doubt it will.
The Methana is great but really what can it do that a tank can not, if not better? Certainly it can flee a murder scene better and less conspicuous but what good is running away for the support of the squad?
Also about your fit, that is exactly my fit as well. The slot limitation really leads to certain "Superior Fits". Our fit is certainly among them however the hands down best fit is an Enhanced rep, basic hardener, scanner, Particle accelerator however it requires a lot of optimization skills but really you can't get better than that fit. That's what slot limitation leads to; these hands down best fits.
Also you, me, Xeon, Foundation Seldon, G Shock, Kirk, etc. we are the few who are most comfortable in an LAV, who have months of experience and dedication we know it like the back of our pimp hand. People outside of the LAV community would look people like us and say that we are outside the bell curve and are not average. Our results are not the results of purely the LAV but also general knowledge that has been picked up, since Chromosome for me.
Comparing the Scout to the Heavy: Scout has utility, 2 EQ & 1 more slot while the heavy has Damage and Armor: Heavy weapon and plenty of HP. Comparing LAV to HAV: HAV has Damage, Armor, and utility, 3 turrets lots of health more slots. LAV has mobility.....not even a lower scan profile or a small turret damage modifier.
Foundation Seldon is an exceptional LAV driver, should he really be setting the median?
Methana is damn fun for trolling infantry and lesser vehicles but taking on a serious HAV is outside of our box and so is logistic support for squads. Love my Methana to death wish for that pinnacle of perfection for to need nothing more. I just see these flying tanks from time to time and wonder why tanks can fly.
IF we could return two high slots and 3 low slots to the Methana I wouldn't give a damn about Maddy's slots. It's just that it's unlikely we could return to those days.
EDIT: Driving solo is possible and I have done it successfully but it's always better with a partner  This is about making the Methana a more commonly accepted vehicle, giving a reason to average schmo to say "that might be worth my time"
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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