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[Spreadsheet] Why play assault?

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I-Shayz-I I----------I 3991	Posted - 2014.07.08 04:32:00 - [1] - Quote Hey look I made a thing: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYUjq_P9RY0Zlc1NzJrcFBWcDA/edit?usp=sharing So we obviously know that the Assault is worthless compared to the scout...but by how much? I made a stats table comparing the competitive aspects of both the Caldari Scout and Cadari Assault in 3 different fitting styles: Suit Type - Based on community feedback, "the way the suit should be fit". Shields/Stealth - Shield extenders, regulators, and profile dampeners Dual Tanking - As much HP as possible while still allowing for regen These were all made using Protofits with essentially max skills in all relevant areas. Some of the fittings had to be slightly downgraded to stay realistic here. Yeah you could fit all proto modules, but trying to fit even a basic weapon or equipment became very hard for the assault so I used advanced where needed. None of the scout fittings involved the cloak, but I'm pretty sure that advanced cloaks could have been used on all 3 of them without much in terms of fitting issues. Results Fitting a scout for a scout, and an assault for an assault...you can see the clear differences and it is overall pretty balanced when it comes to direct combat. The scout just has a huge advantage when it comes to e-war and stealth. The Caldari Scout always had an excess of fitting space, where even all proto modules would only result in half of the available fitting space taken up. I assume this is to make fitting cloaks easier, but man it reminds me of how easy sentinels are to fit. The advantages the scout has in terms of shield and e-war stats are made even more advantageous by the physical features of the scout such as increased movement speed and a smaller hitbox/frame. If the scout was just a variant of the assault suit with the same movement speed/frame, the balance between the suits would be much more even. The most surprising thing I found out in this experiment was what it takes to increase the Assault's stats to scout levels. To make an Assault that has similar stats as a base proto scout with bonuses you need: -1 Enhanced Energizer -2 Complex Precision Mods -1 Advanced Precision Mod -1 Complex Dampener -1 Enhanced Kin Cat -1 Complex Shield Regulator -2 Complex Range Amp -1 Basic Range Amp -CPU and PG Mods To make a Scout that has similar stats as a base Assault?: -Complex Shield Extender -Basic Shield Extender -Enhanced Ferroscale Plate Crazy huh? 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
sebastian the huds WarRavens Final Resolution. 155	Posted - 2014.07.08 04:40:00 - [2] - Quote I don't play assault, i play caldari medium frame ck.0 and an Allotek burst ar. (Because more damage and rof than a duvolle) LOL DEATH TO ASSAULT AND RISE OF THE TROLLS I want an assault LAV.
Lea Silencio 0uter.Heaven 1574	Posted - 2014.07.08 04:40:00 - [3] - Quote You present a valid case. Take note, CCP and make assault suits viable again. PurificationGäó It's what I do. Amarr Victor
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Final Resolution. 27	Posted - 2014.07.08 05:01:00 - [4] - Quote sebastian the huds wrote: I don't play assault, i play caldari medium frame ck.0 and an Allotek burst ar. (Because more damage and rof than a duvolle) LOL DEATH TO ASSAULT AND RISE OF THE TROLLS Damn it sebastian
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 155	Posted - 2014.07.08 06:28:00 - [5] - Quote Scout warriors are pretty tough. The thing is what should assaults be able to do? Are they glass cannons who do lots of damage? Are they jack of all trades? Are they supposed to work well in numbers? Are they a lone wolf? What is the assaults bread and butter niche? Not One Lifetime
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 729	Posted - 2014.07.08 06:30:00 - [6] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The most surprising thing I found out in this experiment was what it takes to increase the Assault's stats to scout levels. To make an Assault that has similar stats as a base proto scout with bonuses you need: -1 Enhanced Energizer -2 Complex Precision Mods -1 Advanced Precision Mod -1 Complex Dampener -1 Enhanced Kin Cat -1 Complex Shield Regulator -2 Complex Range Amp -1 Basic Range Amp -CPU and PG Mods To make a Scout that has similar stats as a base Assault?: -Complex Shield Extender -Basic Shield Extender -Enhanced Ferroscale Plate Im not sure there are any words for this part. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10724	Posted - 2014.07.08 06:36:00 - [7] - Quote An Assault should see a scout in 1v1 combat as their play thing. Kind of like a Heavy destryoing assaults left and right? That's what assaults should do to scouts who don't use stealth and scanning to get the drop on them. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 850	Posted - 2014.07.08 07:37:00 - [8] - Quote Hey Shayz , why didn't you run for CPM ..??.. I would have voted for you too . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6395	Posted - 2014.07.08 07:51:00 - [9] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Hey Shayz , why didn't you run for CPM ..??.. I would have voted for you too . agreed. Would like to see more CPM members that actually play the game instead of popping their head in Every other month and acting like they know everything. But I digress. The Saddest part of this game is is that in playing this game, I'm more afraid of a Advanced Cal Scout than a Prototype Cal Assault. As much as I respect people that still use assaults it kills me when I kill them. One day....we will have our revenge on the game. The role of slayer will once again belong to the Assault! see you space cowboy...
I-Shayz-I I----------I 3998	Posted - 2014.07.08 08:11:00 - [10] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Hey Shayz , why didn't you run for CPM ..??.. I would have voted for you too . I tried, got shut down my Jenza Okay the longbutreallynotthatlongIswearit'llonlytakeaminute version is that I don't like traveling...and it's kinda a requirement to be on the CPM. I also have a lot of IRL stuff that goes on and I don't want to make myself any busier that I need to be or else I think I'd melt down into a puddle of goo because my brain had a meltdown. Also, I literally just turned 21 (I'm completely sober though, and will probably never drink in my life)...and you needed to be at least 21 to be even considered or even put in an application. Maybe next year lol That said, Cross Atu is basically my clone. While he might not play as much as I do, we both have the exact same thoughts when it comes to the CPM, in-game mechanics, NPE...I mean heck my votematch with him was 96%, highest on the list compared to every other candidate. We are also probably the two most prominent people when it comes to pushing forward changes to the rewards system for equipment. While the NDA will prevent him from giving me the inside edge on how I can make my feedback much more effective, we might bounce ideas back and forth, and I could potentially get my ideas (or others) to the DEVs this way. Not saying it will happen like that, but Cross does seem to support a lot of the things I post about. _______________________________________________________________________ Besides, why would we want TWO people with exact same viewpoints on the CPM? I'm confident that Cross will do an amazing job (if not a better job than me) if he is indeed voted in. He's also really good with words. I studder and say a lot of stupid things when under pressure) And the NDA might actually hamper my effectiveness as both a Youtuber and an awesome poster here on the forums. Without the NDA I can talk about whatever I want to and throw out ideas even if they're already being discussed within CCP. I wouldn't want to be limited by that, and I doubt this community would want that either. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 852	Posted - 2014.07.08 08:20:00 - [11] - Quote I voted for Cross , I like his views on a lot of issues and for a 21 year old ... you are very mature from what I see in the forums and the fact that you don't drink , keep up the good work . Your a class act . I pray for your success and a prosperous life . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 55	Posted - 2014.07.08 08:43:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: An Assault should see a scout in 1v1 combat as their play thing. Kind of like a Heavy destryoing assaults left and right? That's what assaults should do to scouts who don't use stealth and scanning to get the drop on them. The thing is to get the drop on the assault all the scanning and stealth are built right in, the e war is only necessary to ad module for fighting other scouts.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 3998	Posted - 2014.07.08 09:05:00 - [13] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I voted for Cross , I like his views on a lot of issues and for a 21 year old ... you are very mature from what I see in the forums and the fact that you don't drink , keep up the good work . Your a class act . I pray for your success and a prosperous life . Just for that I'll let you in on a bit of my personal life as long as you don't make a deal out of this. My awesome girlfriend of 3 years broke up with me the other night. I now don't have a video game, anime, rave, or music buddy to talk to or be around but I guess that means I have more time to make videos and post on the forums? I wonder if this has anything to do with me randomly wanting to spend 8 hours making a spreadsheet today 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Lea Silencio 0uter.Heaven 1575	Posted - 2014.07.08 09:25:00 - [14] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Hey Shayz , why didn't you run for CPM ..??.. I would have voted for you too . agreed. Would like to see more CPM members that actually play the game instead of popping their head in Every other month and acting like they know everything. But I digress. The Saddest part of this game is is that in playing this game, I'm more afraid of a Advanced Cal Scout than a Prototype Cal Assault. As much as I respect people that still use assaults it kills me when I kill them. One day....we will have our revenge on the game. The role of slayer will once again belong to the Assault! #Zion Shad. No offense, but he miraculously popped up just in time for CPM elections. When PC was first introduced and his corp got ousted, he disappeared...until now. Honestly, if Shayz would have ran, he would have gotten my vote for the very same reason you mentioned. Give me a CPM who cares enough about the game to actually PLAY it than someone who is only interested in perks, power and a free annual trip. Real Talk. PurificationGäó It's what I do. Amarr Victor
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4090	Posted - 2014.07.08 11:40:00 - [15] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I voted for Cross , I like his views on a lot of issues and for a 21 year old ... you are very mature from what I see in the forums and the fact that you don't drink , keep up the good work . Your a class act . I pray for your success and a prosperous life . Just for that I'll let you in on a bit of my personal life as long as you don't make a deal out of this. My awesome girlfriend of 3 years broke up with me the other night. I now don't have a video game, anime, rave, or music buddy to talk to or be around but I guess that means I have more time to make videos and post on the forums? I wonder if this has anything to do with me randomly wanting to spend 8 hours making a spreadsheet today dem feels bro :( my condolences. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10285	Posted - 2014.07.08 12:06:00 - [16] - Quote For the low, low, price of 6 easy payments of 311k SP, 100HP, and and your soul, you can get all of these awesome upgrades:: Shield Recharge Rate Movement Speed Sprint Speed Scan Profile Scan Precision Scan Radius Call 1-800-514-FoTM Today! Long Live The Anime Empire "You know what? You really, REALLY, like to dampen the mood" - Lea Silencio -HAND
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4002	Posted - 2014.07.08 12:29:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: For the low, low, price of 6 easy payments of 311k SP, 100HP, and and your soul, you can get all of these awesome upgrades:: Shield Recharge Rate Movement Speed Sprint Speed Scan Profile Scan Precision Scan Radius Call 1-800-514-FoTM Today! This has to be the single best thing I have seen on these forums. Pure ***** genius 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!**
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 359	Posted - 2014.07.08 13:02:00 - [18] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: As much as I respect people that still use assaults it kills me when I kill them. One day....we will have our revenge on the game. The role of slayer will once again belong to the Assault! slayerlogi-check tankspam-check brickscouts-check ... ... one day... Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 456	Posted - 2014.07.08 14:55:00 - [19] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Scout warriors are pretty tough. The thing is what should assaults be able to do? Are they glass cannons who do lots of damage? Are they jack of all trades? Are they supposed to work well in numbers? Are they a lone wolf? What is the assaults bread and butter niche? They're supposed to be Jacks of all trades, but unfortunately they're not able to properly fulfill that role. Whereas scouts focus on stealth and CQC, Assaults focus on range and fronline offense. This means they should have much more ehp than scouts, but not anywhere close to heavies either, and likewise their speeds should be scaled to fit their eHP. At this point, they could either get an eHP buff or get better bonuses. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 854	Posted - 2014.07.08 18:42:00 - [20] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I voted for Cross , I like his views on a lot of issues and for a 21 year old ... you are very mature from what I see in the forums and the fact that you don't drink , keep up the good work . Your a class act . I pray for your success and a prosperous life . Just for that I'll let you in on a bit of my personal life as long as you don't make a deal out of this. My awesome girlfriend of 3 years broke up with me the other night. I now don't have a video game, anime, rave, or music buddy to talk to or be around but I guess that means I have more time to make videos and post on the forums? I wonder if this has anything to do with me randomly wanting to spend 8 hours making a spreadsheet today You'll be alright . Won't make a big deal about it because I know nothing of your life and from what I can tell , you have a positive head on your shoulders ... that's always a plus . As a man , your going threw something that we all have so I can totally relate . You know what to do and what must be done and the crazy part is , only you do so there is nothing that I could tell you . Just give you examples and like I said , I won't make a big deal about it . I believe that everything will work it's self out for you soon enough and better than you might believe at the moment . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 154	Posted - 2014.07.08 19:01:00 - [21] - Quote I'm having fun with assault class.
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2023	Posted - 2014.07.08 19:11:00 - [22] - Quote That's about all there is though, 'fun' and even then, it's a bit anti-fun when your proto Assault is beat by a Adv Galscout who feels he can stack more HP than you.(they can) My Min Assault can hit 500 shield, 199 armor. Only the shields regen. Meanwhile a GALscout has better shield regen, and can armor tank to more HP than i have. In terms of MinjaVAssault, it's actually pretty balanced, but let's be honest, Min is outclassed by EVERYTHING. Fun =/= balanced General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3816	Posted - 2014.07.08 19:26:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: For the low, low, price of 6 easy payments of 311k SP, 100HP, and and your soul, you can get all of these awesome upgrades:: Shield Recharge Rate Movement Speed Sprint Speed Scan Profile Scan Precision Scan Radius Call 1-800-514-FoTM Today! Ermagerd I believe. Just like every other Englishmen, I bath in tea, have no teeth and live in a castle.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 658	Posted - 2014.07.08 19:53:00 - [24] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: To make an Assault that has similar stats as a base proto scout with bonuses you need: -1 Enhanced Energizer -2 Complex Precision Mods -1 Advanced Precision Mod -1 Complex Dampener -1 Enhanced Kin Cat -1 Complex Shield Regulator -2 Complex Range Amp -1 Basic Range Amp -CPU and PG Mods To make a Scout that has similar stats as a base Assault?: -Complex Shield Extender -Basic Shield Extender -Enhanced Ferroscale Plate Crazy huh? I think this is the bulls-eye right there. Fix this and you fix scouts. Thanks for working out the numbers.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4018	Posted - 2014.07.09 05:04:00 - [25] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Crazy huh? I think this is the bulls-eye right there. Fix this and you fix scouts. Thanks for working out the numbers. Practically. I think the biggest reason scouts have such a huge advantage in combat is because of their suit bonuses to combat related traits. Heavies are the same way. Assaults only get a fitting bonus...and the bonus to the weapon doesn't make them much better in combat, just better at killing 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1566	Posted - 2014.07.09 06:40:00 - [26] - Quote Should do the same for the minmatar. Delt for CPM1 Moss-delt on skype
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4019	Posted - 2014.07.09 07:12:00 - [27] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Should do the same for the minmatar. The minmatar scout is much harder when it comes to fitting, and isn't really a combat oriented scout I honestly wouldn't know where to begin with it... Besides, there's already a clear difference between the minmatar scout and the assault. It's just that the Caldari scout is so much better than the assault, especially with the passive bonuses it gets to scan range and precision....and the fact that you can still stack so much HP Heck, even switching around the minmatar and caldari slot layouts would help a bit 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6191	Posted - 2014.07.09 07:13:00 - [28] - Quote Wasn't in PC but I did fairly decent with the Cal Assault, honestly. http://i.imgur.com/xJtkfYe.jpg Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2157	Posted - 2014.07.09 07:38:00 - [29] - Quote Good research, but there's really not much news about this. I called it even before 1.8 was released. I still find it funny how people pushed me aside with lame responses like: "You don't know until 1.8 lands, just wait it out". "Assault rebalance will follow right after 1.8, just wait it out". Or my personal favorite: "You can make better Assault fittings when you take into account the fitting bonuses on Assaults". Even after showing them possible fittings in which the Scout would always be better they kept telling me this. Funnily enough they always ran away whenever I challenged them to make a 1.8 Assault fitting I couldn't replicate (and improve) on a 1.8 Scout. Well, so much for Assault rebalance being right around the corner and here four months later Assaults are just as bad Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4019	Posted - 2014.07.09 08:17:00 - [30] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Well, so much for Assault rebalance being right around the corner and here four months later Assaults are just as bad I know right? I think that people were hopeful before Fanfest, but afterwards everyone forgot and we basically had to start from scratch. Now that Rattai is pushing things forward we will most likely see medium suit changes, but who knows whether the best option is a complete rebalance or just better bonuses. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

The Eristic Dust 90210 554	Posted - 2014.07.09 08:43:00 - [31] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Crazy huh? I think this is the bulls-eye right there. Fix this and you fix scouts. Thanks for working out the numbers. Practically. I think the biggest reason scouts have such a huge advantage in combat is because of their suit bonuses to combat related traits. Heavies are the same way. Assaults only get a fitting bonus...and the bonus to the weapon doesn't make them much better in combat, just better at killing Scouts have two (well, except the Amarr... and the Gal might as well not have the second after the nerf), Sentinels have two, Commandos have one that applies to multiple weapons, Logis have two, even if they only affect specific pieces of equipment. I would wager (and seriously hope!) the Assault rebalance will feature two racial bonuses, one for the weaponry and another for racial tank (or?). Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2157	Posted - 2014.07.09 10:51:00 - [32] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Now that Rattai is pushing things forward we will most likely see medium suit changes, but who knows whether the best option is a complete rebalance or just better bonuses. Although in my opinion it's not enough to just change some stuff on Assaults suits to balance all the classes. Every class needs some kind of rebalance (which is still pretty funny given how much they've been balancing everything the entire time through closed beta to now. You would think that at some point they would get it at least somewhat right). One thing is for sure though, just new suit bonuses to Assaults won't be enough, it won't even be close to enough. As per my earlier link the only things the Assault have going for it over the Scout is having slightly more health, an extra low/high slot (which in 99% of the cases has to be used for a CPU mod) and whatever suit bonuses it has. While the Scout is better at everything else: Better shield recharge rate. Better recharge delays. More speed, movement and sprint (which will nullify some/all of that extra health the Assault has). Smaller hitbox (which again will nullify some/all of that extra health). Lower profile. Longer scan range. Better scan precision. Equipment slot more. Ability to use cloak. Way more CPU/PG (including when accounting for the fitting bonuses for the Assault). Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
jenza aranda BetaMax. 3357	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:55:00 - [33] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Hey Shayz , why didn't you run for CPM ..??.. I would have voted for you too . I tried, got shut down my Jenza I shut you down? Dust 514 101 // Dust 514 Wiki
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4026	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:08:00 - [34] - Quote jenza aranda wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I tried, got shut down by Jenza I shut you down? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133521 It wasn't directed towards me, but this was the post that made me realize that I should stick to forum posting and making videos. I originally made this post about wanting to be on the CPM because of what others had told me: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1718312#post1718312 The combination of feedback from my post plus yours was the deciding factor. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4117	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:17:00 - [35] - Quote Bumping this because it's relevant again. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 691	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:34:00 - [36] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Should do the same for the minmatar. The minmatar assault is balanced with the minmatar scout in my opinion. I have them both. As a side note, Caldari is losing their precious precision so they will actually have to sacrifice their tank to gain "almighty scan entire map power". Also contributing to the cal scout problem is its weird hit detection. I don't care what anyone says, it exists. I have seen it multiple times. Just yesterday infact I shot at a cal scout with my damage mod prof 4 six kin ACR, put about 20 rounds at him while he was standing still (most of them near his head) and he lost about half of shield. Now I'm a pretty good shot and that should have been enough to kill him based on health and my dps, but nope nothing. I could even hear the rounds hitting his shield. Hmmmmmmmmm Lastly, I have more or less successfully using my min assault in PC. If you brick it, you can get about 800 eHP which works decently well. I think the HP buff will help assaults a lot. We will soon see though. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5663	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:40:00 - [37] - Quote It's more the commandos and sentinels that take the place of assaults pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1191	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:35:00 - [38] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Crazy huh? Not crazy at all, Shayz, but it makes perfect sense against the relative numbers you see on the battlefield of each (i.e. scouts>>assault). Hopefully Charlie will fix this -- I'm quite looking forward to getting back into an Assault suit.


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