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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3031
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Posted - 2014.07.06 22:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:In Dust's case I have a serious issue with the debate for P2W.
1st, the best uplink in the game is AUR if you don't go into the LP store. Even if you only get 5 spawns just be a advanced A-Logi and you get 11.
LP store is free is it not, does that not solve the issue? The whole point of the LP store is to get 'AUR-Named' items with paying for them.
2nd, There are TONS of BPO's that give people huge advantages. Running BPO's saves isk for the times you want Proto. No new player has this advantage.
BPO's only apply to standard gear, which is only marginally (as in just barely) better than mlt. New players have access to 3 unlimited fits, for the entire duration of the game,, without paying a dime.
3rd, If you are like me and make a good living then you buy tons of omega's every time you can. Then use them on events. Hence why I have only played since like November and have almost 30 mil SP. Tell me that is truly not an advantage?
You can have 300mil SP, but as I'm sure you are aware SP only gets you so far, just because you have more SP does not make you any more likely to beat me in my mlt amarr suit
4th, Being able to purchase an item above your current SP is a way of paying to win. You get more PG/CPU thus more HP and, typically, do more damage. The advantage is small but for experienced and skilled FPS players it is gigantic.
If we had a matchmaking system that put AUR proto gear with traditional advanced gear, then yesmthat would undoubtedly be a pay to win feature, but considering we have NO matchmaking, no its not.
This game may not be P2W in the traditional sense but in some ways it is definitely P2W on the lower part of the spectrum. There is no debate on the matter. The facts are facts.
There is plenty of debate over the matter, the fact fact that you have to, give arguements to prove your point, shows this.
The fact this, thread even exsists shows it is very much up for debate.
OP, unfortunately just because he is in AUR gear is not the reason he beat you. The reason he beat you is because, he beat you.
Chances are he was in proto variant gear in which case, it wouldn't matter if he was AUR or not he would still have clobbered you all the same.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3031
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Posted - 2014.07.06 22:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:i remember when the killswitch gek was p2w in chromosome and the fused contact grenades in the beginning of uprising.
Contacts were most definitely pay to win at the time, but they are kinda useless now.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3031
|
Posted - 2014.07.06 23:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Eko Sol wrote:In Dust's case I have a serious issue with the debate for P2W.
1st, the best uplink in the game is AUR if you don't go into the LP store. Even if you only get 5 spawns just be a advanced A-Logi and you get 11.
LP store is free is it not, does that not solve the issue? The whole point of the LP store is to get 'AUR-Named' items with paying for them.
2nd, There are TONS of BPO's that give people huge advantages. Running BPO's saves isk for the times you want Proto. No new player has this advantage.
BPO's only apply to standard gear, which is only marginally (as in just barely) better than mlt. New players have access to 3 unlimited fits, for the entire duration of the game,, without paying a dime.
3rd, If you are like me and make a good living then you buy tons of omega's every time you can. Then use them on events. Hence why I have only played since like November and have almost 30 mil SP. Tell me that is truly not an advantage?
You can have 300mil SP, but as I'm sure you are aware SP only gets you so far, just because you have more SP does not make you any more likely to beat me in my mlt amarr suit
4th, Being able to purchase an item above your current SP is a way of paying to win. You get more PG/CPU thus more HP and, typically, do more damage. The advantage is small but for experienced and skilled FPS players it is gigantic.
If we had a matchmaking system that put AUR proto gear with traditional advanced gear, then yesmthat would undoubtedly be a pay to win feature, but considering we have NO matchmaking, no its not.
This game may not be P2W in the traditional sense but in some ways it is definitely P2W on the lower part of the spectrum. There is no debate on the matter. The facts are facts. There is plenty of debate over the matter, the fact fact that you have to, give arguements to prove your point, shows this. The fact this, thread even exsists shows it is very much up for debate. OP, unfortunately just because he is in AUR gear is not the reason he beat you. The reason he beat you is because, he beat you. Chances are he was in proto variant gear in which case, it wouldn't matter if he was AUR or not he would still have clobbered you all the same. I wasn't giving facts to prove an argument I was just stating that you can pay to get something better than those that don't pay hence it is P2W. Your rebuttles are terrible. They still prove me to be correct. Someone brand new without doing anything but buying AUR and AUR items can have an advantage over someone else that is brand new that can't afford it.
So you completly actually ignore the arguements then?
I'll say again, BPO's give pretty minimal improvements, litterally the difference is PG/CPU usage. If I paid 30 quid for a BPO I'd be damn dissapointed.
You still seem to competly ignore that actual skill trumps SP everytime.
Being able to pay for suits over your current SP if anything gives you a disadvantage. Since you don't recieve the bonuses and passive boosts.
An AUR Proto at Advanced SP is worse off then a Proto at Proto SP.
The only thing you can actually pertain to argue is the boosters, but once you get past about 5 mill SP you can have all the important upgrades in Dropsuit Upgrades, so we are once again on pretty even ground.
More SP just means you can be more wasteful, it gives you more choice but the end result can still be the same.
You do not get enough of an advantage for it to be P2W, for an example of PSW I would refer you to ES online, you can pay with real money for gear that is blantantly overpowered, that is P2W, since the advantage you recieve is enough to make victory assured.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3062
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Posted - 2014.07.11 13:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Eko Sol wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Eko Sol wrote:In Dust's case I have a serious issue with the debate for P2W.
1st, the best uplink in the game is AUR if you don't go into the LP store. Even if you only get 5 spawns just be a advanced A-Logi and you get 11.
LP store is free is it not, does that not solve the issue? The whole point of the LP store is to get 'AUR-Named' items with paying for them.
2nd, There are TONS of BPO's that give people huge advantages. Running BPO's saves isk for the times you want Proto. No new player has this advantage.
BPO's only apply to standard gear, which is only marginally (as in just barely) better than mlt. New players have access to 3 unlimited fits, for the entire duration of the game,, without paying a dime.
3rd, If you are like me and make a good living then you buy tons of omega's every time you can. Then use them on events. Hence why I have only played since like November and have almost 30 mil SP. Tell me that is truly not an advantage?
You can have 300mil SP, but as I'm sure you are aware SP only gets you so far, just because you have more SP does not make you any more likely to beat me in my mlt amarr suit
4th, Being able to purchase an item above your current SP is a way of paying to win. You get more PG/CPU thus more HP and, typically, do more damage. The advantage is small but for experienced and skilled FPS players it is gigantic.
If we had a matchmaking system that put AUR proto gear with traditional advanced gear, then yesmthat would undoubtedly be a pay to win feature, but considering we have NO matchmaking, no its not.
This game may not be P2W in the traditional sense but in some ways it is definitely P2W on the lower part of the spectrum. There is no debate on the matter. The facts are facts. There is plenty of debate over the matter, the fact fact that you have to, give arguements to prove your point, shows this. The fact this, thread even exsists shows it is very much up for debate. OP, unfortunately just because he is in AUR gear is not the reason he beat you. The reason he beat you is because, he beat you. Chances are he was in proto variant gear in which case, it wouldn't matter if he was AUR or not he would still have clobbered you all the same. I wasn't giving facts to prove an argument I was just stating that you can pay to get something better than those that don't pay hence it is P2W. Your rebuttles are terrible. They still prove me to be correct. Someone brand new without doing anything but buying AUR and AUR items can have an advantage over someone else that is brand new that can't afford it. So you completly actually ignore the arguements then? I'll say again, BPO's give pretty minimal improvements, litterally the difference is PG/CPU usage. If I paid 30 quid for a BPO I'd be damn dissapointed. You still seem to competly ignore that actual skill trumps SP everytime. Being able to pay for suits over your current SP if anything gives you a disadvantage. Since you don't recieve the bonuses and passive boosts. An AUR Proto at Advanced SP is worse off then a Proto at Proto SP. The only thing you can actually pertain to argue is the boosters, but once you get past about 5 mill SP you can have all the important upgrades in Dropsuit Upgrades, so we are once again on pretty even ground. More SP just means you can be more wasteful, it gives you more choice but the end result can still be the same. You do not get enough of an advantage for it to be P2W, for an example of PSW I would refer you to ES online, you can pay with real money for gear that is blantantly overpowered, that is P2W, since the advantage you recieve is enough to make victory assured. Yes I am ignoring your idiotic "arguments". 32 brand new players started the game and 16 happened to be in the same side of the match all with 40k AUR and the other 16 on the other side that do not have any AUR. Take that, and then tell me that the side with the AUR has no advantage. Assume every player has equal skill in FPS's, use default settings, and never played or watch the game played before. The fact is that the AUR side will have the advantage. Period. As long as you can gain ANY advantage using real world money over ANY player that also plays automatically makes this a low spectrum P2W operation. Your arguments don't mean squat. I don't care that someone buys aurum and is still at a disadvantage over vets. That doesn't' mean you don't get an advantage when buying aur over other new players that cannot. Until you can prove that there is ZERO P2W in the game you will have ZERO validity in your "argument". It is P2W. Get over it. I'm done mentoring you padawan. You are own your own now and must find your own path within the force. I'll now place you in on Alderaan a bit before the major catastrophe. Wait, wrong universe right?
If these players were all equal skill level, and had never played the game before it would be balanced for 1 simple reason.
They would only be capable of fitting out std AUR gear.
Now if you think STD is that much greater than mlt, I would happily, give you a duel, me in my front line suit you in an AUR STD suit.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3062
|
Posted - 2014.07.11 14:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Eko Sol wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:I wouldn't call dust P2W, as anything you get with AUR is functionally the same as ISK gear.
In reality, it wouldn't make any difference if you were killed by someone with proto ISK gear or proto AUR gear. Urban Dictionary states that "pay to win" is defines as: Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rateAND then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Let's take a look at that statement you provided.
The first section is that you must be able to buy or make better gear at a faster rate than people who don't play.
Now we can all agree AURUM allows you to buy better gear faster, that is afterall the whole point of AURUM.
Be tomorrow's mercanary today, with AURUM
however the 2nd statement is connected by an AND, what this means is that both halves of the statement must be true in order for the entire sentence to be considersd fact.
So the second half is that this currency-obtained gear must:
make the game largely unbalanced even for people who skill in the game but don't pay.
And this Eko, is where your entire arguement falls apart. AURUM gear does not give yoh an advantage over a skilled player, irrespective of what time period they have been playing.
A proto AUR suit does not give any advantage over a proto ISK suit.
A proto AUR suit does not give any more of an advantage over an ADV ISK suit then a proto ISK suit does.
AURUM in short gives you no benifits over it's ISK compatriates and is only better if you already have all the skills required for an ISK version.
In short the dictionary you are using to disprove other peoples contradicts your own arguement.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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