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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4006
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Posted - 2014.07.06 01:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Scrap dropsuit command bonuses
Replace with diverse suit stats and hardwire bonuses.
I.E. an A-I Assault will have less heat-sink capabilities than a A/1 Series. A C-I Scout will have higher precision and lower range than a C/1 Series
Why do this? So ISK equals reward. SP should have no effect on the dropsuit effectiveness purely ISK. At start it's hard to make ISK off of base suits. They are hard to fit and don't turn out much reward. However take a high SP player and give them a Standard suit and you can turn a lotta profit off it. The ISK income gap in pubs between High SP players and new players can be derived from having a far more effective suit even though they wear the same suit.
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
Psychotic Alliance
1426
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Posted - 2014.07.06 02:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
You must be new to New Eden.
Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4006
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Posted - 2014.07.06 02:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:You must be new to New Eden.
In New Eden if you want to make ISK you gotta throw down on it. In fact my proposal is no different from how vehicle skills are currently.
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
2008
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Posted - 2014.07.06 02:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:You must be new to New Eden. In New Eden if you want to make ISK you gotta throw down on it. In fact my proposal is no different from how vehicle skills are currently.
Just because vehicle skills are like that doesn't mean it's good. ISK shouldn't determine quality; SP should. Someone rich enough shouldn't be able to constantly pay for an advantage. Only SP investment and dedication should give you an edge. That's my complaint about proto suits that they offer benefits that aren't marginal for a much higher cost.
On the contrary, EVE has skill bonuses for almost every single skill. I do not recall a single relevant skill that offers no bonus per level. I do not remember a single skill where training to level 2 or 4 (or even beyond 1 for some) gives you nothing, while Dust has a lot of skills that do just that, and they are important too.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
205
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Posted - 2014.07.06 04:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:You must be new to New Eden. In New Eden if you want to make ISK you gotta throw down on it. In fact my proposal is no different from how vehicle skills are currently. That's my complaint about proto suits that they offer benefits that aren't marginal for a much higher cost.
what would those benefits be? because i think they are rather underpowered for the isk they cost. i do better in my standard, Assault G-1 vs other standard suits than i do in my prototype, Assault Gk.0 against other prototypes. sometimes i'll even lose to an advanced suit in a prototype suit. i think adding an additional slot or two is nowhere near enough to make up for a prototype's isk cost. they need something more
yet, i do agree that dedicated players deserve higher rewards. i like the fact that my Gallente Assault Lv 5 abilities carry over to my Assault G-1 and Assault G/1-series, not just my Gk.0.
im not understanding whether you are saying that Proto suits are Overpowered, or Underpowered.
Every suit Gk.0 <3
Gallente Federation Patriot
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Lynn Beck
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
2010
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Posted - 2014.07.06 08:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Proto suits are indeed, way OP (in comparison to Std)
Your SP and gungame should make the suit, not thr suit.
Although, currently we are stuck with Adv/p
pro, so i feel it would be an odd(but cool) idea if:
Normalise slots across all tiers: 4/4/4 Minlogis of all tiers
Severely gimp CPU/PG of Adv/Std logis.
Reasoning; at 0Sp you should be able to fit abou half of those slots with Mlt, or 3/4 with Standard.
With maxed fitting skills(Engi/Elec) you can fit full standard, or mid-halfway Adv.
Currently you can fit near full Prototype on Standard gear, or Adv.
Only at Prototype would you be able to fit all slots with full proto, even then requiring maxed Fitting Optimizations in many cases.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
207
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Posted - 2014.07.06 09:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
if two meet who are of the same playing skill and are both Lv 5 in the same suit, but one is running a standard suit while the other is wearing a prototype, the prototyle should win. same result if the guy running standard is instead running advanced, since every other factor is the same.
in that case, isk wins over sp investment and gun game.
if two meet and one is a lv 1 while the other is a lv 3 of the same suit, the lv 3 is going to win. unless the X-1 has a higher gun game level.
in that case, gun game beats sp/isk investment.
there are so many scenarios i could go over, but the point is, you cant balance isk cost, sp investment and "gun game" perfectly. plus, who is anybody to say, for example, that "gun game" is better than Sp investment? or that sp cost is greater than isk investment, or anything like that? there are so many circumstances and so many other factors to take into consideration. playstyle, preferred weapons, distance between opponents, map, whether there is cover nearby to hide behind, is there fight, or flight going on, is ita 1 v 1 fight or 6 v 3? what about the other players if its not 1 v 1?? whats their playstyles, distances, sp levels, ect.
Every suit Gk.0 <3
Gallente Federation Patriot
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1112
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Posted - 2014.07.06 11:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
never mind
:-S
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
983
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Posted - 2014.07.06 12:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
General12912 wrote:if two meet who are of the same playing skill and are both Lv 5 in the same suit, but one is running a standard suit while the other is wearing a prototype, the prototyle should win. same result if the guy running standard is instead running advanced, since every other factor is the same.
lolno.
Skill > SP > Gear. It's how DUST has always been.
The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
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Meee One
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
897
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Posted - 2014.07.06 12:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:Proto suits are indeed, way OP (in comparison to Std)
Your SP and gungame should make the suit, not thr suit.
Although, currently we are stuck with Adv/p
pro, so i feel it would be an odd(but cool) idea if:
Normalise slots across all tiers: 4/4/4 Minlogis of all tiers
Severely gimp CPU/PG of Adv/Std logis.
Reasoning; at 0Sp you should be able to fit abou half of those slots with Mlt, or 3/4 with Standard.
With maxed fitting skills(Engi/Elec) you can fit full standard, or mid-halfway Adv.
Currently you can fit near full Prototype on Standard gear, or Adv.
Only at Prototype would you be able to fit all slots with full proto, even then requiring maxed Fitting Optimizations in many cases.
Tl;dr Screw logis.
Wow,just wow. Std and adv logis have terrible survival rate,yet you desire to have them die more?
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
207
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Posted - 2014.07.06 12:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:General12912 wrote:if two meet who are of the same playing skill and are both Lv 5 in the same suit, but one is running a standard suit while the other is wearing a prototype, the prototyle should win. same result if the guy running standard is instead running advanced, since every other factor is the same.
lolno. Skill > SP > Gear. It's how DUST has always been.
you didnt get what i said, did you. i said two players of the same playing level and sp investment. in other words, all factors are the same except for the suits being used.
Every suit Gk.0 <3
Gallente Federation Patriot
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Lynn Beck
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
2013
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Posted - 2014.07.06 18:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Lynn Beck wrote:Proto suits are indeed, way OP (in comparison to Std)
Your SP and gungame should make the suit, not thr suit.
Although, currently we are stuck with Adv/p
pro, so i feel it would be an odd(but cool) idea if:
Normalise slots across all tiers: 4/4/4 Minlogis of all tiers
Severely gimp CPU/PG of Adv/Std logis.
Reasoning; at 0Sp you should be able to fit abou half of those slots with Mlt, or 3/4 with Standard.
With maxed fitting skills(Engi/Elec) you can fit full standard, or mid-halfway Adv.
Currently you can fit near full Prototype on Standard gear, or Adv.
Only at Prototype would you be able to fit all slots with full proto, even then requiring maxed Fitting Optimizations in many cases. Tl;dr Screw logis. Wow,just wow. Std and adv logis have terrible survival rate,yet you desire to have them die more?
LOL love how that was the only line you read.
Besides, currently Standard/Adv logis are ALREADY laughably survivable.
My proposal was to allow all suits their slot freedom from Pro, all the way down to Std, just with PG/CPU not progressing.
Example: Standard Minlogi:
120 CPU/31PG(i have no clue what current numbers are, STFU)
4H4L4Eq
Under this system, a beginner logi with only Lv1 in the suit would be able to notice right off the get-go "wow. This logi has equal slots!" And would then attempt to fit all of the slots. Upon fitting 4 lows with Mlt Kincats, his fitting is exhausted. "Wow, guess i need to level up this suit for more fitting space!"
Then, a 31m SP vet(me) goes into Logi'ing.
I proceed to fit 3 lows with plates, 1 repper(all Std) and 2 Std Rechargers, and a Std Shield Extender, leaving a high open.
My equipments would be as follows:
1 needle(std), 1 Nanohive, 1 Stable Uplink, and 1 Flux Active Scanner.
Alternatively, let's say for Scouts:
It genuinely SUCKS having to use my Proto suit for that 3rd Low, especially considering that on said proto i don't even fit my highslots.
If a Basic Minja had 3/3 layout, i would be able to do:
1Basic Extender
1Cx Precision
1 empty high
1 Enh Range Amp
1 Enh Code Breaker
1 Bsc Kincat
Combat Rifle
NovaKnives
Flux nade
Now i have the freedom of Prototype(slotwise) but am still seriously gimped Vs Pro
Proto suits can already fit higher tier items, along with more.
My proposal attempts to assist Newberries in their introduction by making Proto gear only have better CPU/PG, instead of better slot layouts as well.
Now, the only way i see this being a problem is in Sentinels, namely the Gal/Amarr ones.
General John Ripper
-BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse.
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
4022
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Posted - 2014.07.06 21:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:
My proposal attempts to assist Newberries in their introduction by making Proto gear only have better CPU/PG, instead of better slot layouts as well.
Now, the only way i see this being a problem is in Sentinels, namely the Gal/Amarr ones.
1. Interesting, of course all suits would be entitled to a slot buff, i.e. give ADV proto slot layout and STD to ADV, MLT to STD and just leave a proto with the CPU/PG buff it's interesting
2. Explain on the Sentinels....
3. @ others: If 2 suits of equal tiers but varying SP show up probably the one with more SP is going to win because they are going to have higher armor and shield skills and other dropsuit Upgrade skills. But really the person who throws down more money should win. If you want an advantage it should be ISK based not supremely SP based like it currently is. You can't Risk SP so it just turns into heavier reward. You risk less, get more reward while low SP players risk and reward on a level field, they have no SP advantage what they put in is what they get out. SP can not be risked therefore it should not equate to reward.
Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
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