DUST Search - Clone Termination & Revive Mechanics: Revisited

Klutch Cordova wrote:

Malkai Inos wrote:

The current mechanics of clone termination and revive WP lack any depth or consideration of the tactical implications associated with any given action. Heavy emphasis is laid on the act of killing the player, while the critical process of terminating the clone is in no way emphasised or rewarded, leading to a system where ultimately inconsequential or even counterproductive behavior, such as killing a clone only for him to be revived a second later is actively promoted.

The counterpoint here is that there are a couple of decisions you can make in this situation, and are often based on the skill of the player. The newberry will incapacitate the clone, but not terminate it, not realizing the mechanics behind it. The amateur will realize that you can terminate a clone by shooting its "corpse," and do so. The pro? They'll incapacitate the clone, wait for an unsuspecting Logi to come out and attempt to revive the target only to be killed and terminated, along with his friend. They can get double killed either before the needle stab, or immediately after. Either way, they're both often in a vulnerable position.

You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...


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Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1460	Posted - 2014.07.02 21:13:00 - [1] - Quote Reposted in hopes for some feedback. I was thinking about the general state of WP generation and the factor of clone termination, especially with regards to the nanite injector. Here are a couple suggestions, some of which go slightly beyond just the needle aspect: [Disclaimer: All numbers pending! Will happily consider any suggestions] Remove flat head-shot kill bonus. Head-shot kills automatically terminate the clone. Only clone termination counts as a death on the killboard. Introduce clone termination bonus based on terminated suits tier (MLT & STD/ ADV/ PRO): 5/10/20WP. * Change revive bonus (B) to be based on needle (N=30/50/80) & revived suit(S=10/20/40) tier via B=N+S [Possibly controversial] Unless requested, revive bonus is awarded only after the teammate survived for three seconds. Allow user clone termination through triangle button press. Killer gets appropriate termination bonus. Unless requested, deny all revives for two seconds upon bleed. Unless requested, Delay revive icon display for two seconds upon bleed. * [Controversial!] Alternatively: Reduce kill WP to 30. Raise termination bonus to 20/30/50. The current mechanics of clone termination and revive lack any depth or consideration of the tactical implications associated with any given action. Heavy emphasis is laid on the act of killing the player, while the critical process of terminating the clone is in no way emphasised or rewarded, leading to a system where ultimately inconsequential or even counterproductive behavior, such as killing a clone only for him to be revived a second later is actively promoted. The inital suggestions try to emphasize the importance if "finishing the job" when killing another player giving them appropriate incentives to terminate clones after incapacitating them. They also designate higher tier suits as inherently higher value targets to reflect their higher capacity to influence the battle outcome. The tactical and strategical value of reviving a team mate can vary wildly based on various circumstances. The tier of the injector can greatly influence the chances of the team mate surviving so using a better tool should be rewarded. A team mate using higher tier suits can generally be assumed to be higher value asset on the battlefield. This should be reflected by WP gains as well. Under the proposed rules WP gain can vary from 40 in the case of a STD needle stabbing a STD suit to up to 120WP when both are of PRO tier. This reduces the viability of randomly stabbing people with low tier needles and encourages logistics to use better equipment and prioritize their targets. Few revives are of tactical value for team if the revived team mate is going to get incapacitated within mere seconds of being revived. By tieing WP gain to the prolonged survival of the target unless the revive was specifically requested, logistics are encouraged to prefer using their needle when the target has a high chance of survival and/or wants to be revived. And finally. While the act of reviving is not actively detrimental to the teams success. Repeatedly reviving players who have no interest and/or chance of actually contributing with their current clone, to the extent where players can be farmed for WP generation can greatly diminish those players enjoyment of the their gameplay. This hurts the acceptance of the Nanite Injector as a viable and welcome support tool and causes increased disharmony between logistics and others, especially in public matches. A brief timer that prevents all incoming revive attempts and surpresses the tacnet revive icon unless requested gives players the needed agency to decide whether a revive is sensible or not. This reduces stress from badly executed revives and allows logis to better prioritize revive opportunities that are desired as well as have a high chance of success. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1470	Posted - 2014.07.05 22:15:00 - [2] - Quote Klutch Cordova wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: The current mechanics of clone termination and revive WP lack any depth or consideration of the tactical implications associated with any given action. Heavy emphasis is laid on the act of killing the player, while the critical process of terminating the clone is in no way emphasised or rewarded, leading to a system where ultimately inconsequential or even counterproductive behavior, such as killing a clone only for him to be revived a second later is actively promoted. The counterpoint here is that there are a couple of decisions you can make in this situation, and are often based on the skill of the player. The newberry will incapacitate the clone, but not terminate it, not realizing the mechanics behind it. The amateur will realize that you can terminate a clone by shooting its "corpse," and do so. The pro? They'll incapacitate the clone, wait for an unsuspecting Logi to come out and attempt to revive the target only to be killed and terminated, along with his friend. They can get double killed either before the needle stab, or immediately after. Either way, they're both often in a vulnerable position. Thank you for your input. I can completely agree with this under the current rules. However, my propositions regarding the overall revive mechanics are aimed to also teach more sound reviving practices. Specifically the 3 second survive counter for unrequested revives should quickly and painfully communicate that being "unsuspecting" will no longer guarantee profits as an injector wielding logi. Under the current system. Blindly stabbing everyone in range with your STD suit and needle are quick and reliable 60WP whether the stab is even productive or not. Worse yet, you're indirectly rewarded for getting your teammates re-killed as long as you can safely trigger the revive and the lack of WP scaling of needle tiers means that "full-time needlers" rarely care about dying in the process. This is why a large number of ( WP oriented or new) logis does it, which is why the Pro's tactic is as viable as it is. Teaching logis smarter gameplay through more granular WP mechanics will cut down on the prevalent re- and double killing, or so I hope. I also highly expect that a non-trivial amount of players will make great use of the self-termination function, especially in cases where they're already certain that a revive will not work out, hich is why I have raised revive WP in almost all combinations to compensate for the expected flat loss in revive opportunities. This increased amount of control, along with the minor UI changes should reduce cases where logis are tempted to attempt revives that have low chances of success, further reducing the likelihood of the Pro's scenario happening. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...