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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3935
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Posted - 2014.07.01 01:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are 3 frame sizes in Dust
Light: Low Profile, Low HP, High Speed, High Shield Regen stats (armor rep gallente), High Stamina Stats Medium: Medium Profile, Medium HP, Medium Speed, Medium Shield Regen Stats (armor rep gallente), Medium Stamina, Most Slots Heavy: High Profile, High HP, Low Speed, Low Regen Stats, Low Stamina, Heavy Weapon Handling/Dual Light Weapons
OK so that's currently things in Dust.
As you can see Medium Frames are, well, medium, average, mundane. They have nothing special, no low profile, no high HP, no fast speed, no super regen, no heavy weapons, they aren't super.
However they are the foundation of Dust, they are the krill of our food chain. They are the essential frame for cannon fodder, for making an offensive, etc.
It is the ability of the medium frame to take any course they wish. A medium frame can effectively tank, regen tank, profile dampen, they are the suit of diversity. They have the most slots to take on the field of diversity or to have an edge on the other two frames, to further their fit development. Yet they can never surpass a heavy on the ability to tank, a scout on the ability to regen tank, etc. They are the jack of all trades master of none.
Dust needs cannon fodder thus a reason to be cannon fodder. Everybody agrees Assaults need dat buff. But think about what it means to be a medium frame before making willy nilly suggestions.
Lately a popular one is "Make Assaults the regen tankers"
That is just wrong. As a medium frame it's supposed to be mundane in starting stats. The medium frame is a blank sheet just waiting for the user to draw on it. There's no one role it's forced into or one play style.
People have been putting forth their reasons for regen tanked assaults but it's my opinion that they are wrong because if you look at the cards on the table they make sense as is. It wouldn't make sense if heavies had immense health and could get it back in an instant. It wouldn't make sense if you lights had less health and were slow to recover.
THE SYSTEM Heavies are heavy, they are tanks Lights are fast, they are mobile & regenerative Mediums are medium, they are the twain capable of many things but master of none.
Rattati is smart: he's going to buff assaults without having some counterweight attached that nerfs scouts or sentinels. He's going to touch up on things one variable at a time. Because Rattati is smart I know he will not radically alter things so Assaults are regen tankers because I think he sees the cards on the table. There are ways to make the assault suit attractive without upsetting the system that has been in place forever.
Also my last note: If you wanted to regen tank why didn't you choose the light frame to begin with? It has had the best regen stats since the dawn of time. It's not like you didn't have the choice staring you in the face. Words from an armor rep tanker.
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3935
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Posted - 2014.07.01 01:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:yes but dust doesnt follow this formula light frame have high hp A medium frame haz more [/discussion]
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3935
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Posted - 2014.07.01 01:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:yes but dust doesnt follow this formula light frame have high hp A medium frame haz more [/discussion] for an extra 200 hp, you are slower, highly scannable, cant detect anything without equipment, cant fit all proto weaponry or decent equipment and you basically become a waddling target. tell me how this makes sense, that a scout can do almost the same amount of tanking and not have any of the drawbacks. it doesn't that gap needs to be 400 at least
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3935
|
Posted - 2014.07.01 02:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:When the base HP stat of a gal scout combined is 200 and the assault is 320 and the difference at proto is one high slot, im faily certain that if i went for all hp the difference would be around 200. No I know the gap is 200 I'm saying it needs to be higher like the Galsault needs and extra low slot
I'm saying there is a problem and that is that medium frames are lacking not that light frames are excelling. If you nerf the light frames then we'd just be stuck with heavies. Heavies and lights are both very viable now, but medium frames are not. Medium frames are lacking, lights and heavies aren't OP. Just by comparison.
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3938
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Posted - 2014.07.01 03:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
I wanted to avoid the numbers game Lynn Beck wrote: Minmatar assault Mk.0, fitting 4 extenders, Complex energizer, and for all intensive purposes, they have the same shield delays. Minmatar Scout Mk.0 fitting 3 extenders.
Scout has 343 shield at 40/s, and has 3 lows to work with. Assault has 478 shield at 35/s, and has 1 low(regulator in other to attain the similar timers)
So 9 seconds barring delays to regen. The assault however, has sacrificed another high slot, only to regen 15% slower than te scout.
The Assault has 39% more shields. The issue I see here is that Shield Rechargers are high slots and thus could not be fitted because it interferes with the purpose of shield tanking.
You know what I may see a flaw in my argument. My argument is coming from an Armor Repair based regen tank. I don't shield regen tank, I don't have enough worth to tank. Iggy told me that on his Caldari Heavy he stacks shield rechargers and regulators so he can have a fat tissue of shielding regenerate like a scouts. Maybe the whole system is backward for shield tankers:
Heavy - Promotes regen tanking? Medium - Promotes Both Light - Promotes HP tanking?
Quote: So now, my ever so gimped Minmatar Scout, is essentially a better Minmatar Assault, without a clipsize bonus. At base stats, my assault fully tanked would take 25 seconds to regen(25/s, 560 shield)
My minja regens in 9.
Your Minnow Assault has 63% more shields and regens (undelayed) at 63% of the scout's.
Quote:Scouts rely on knowing enemy locations, not coming back to fight every 3 seconds.
Assaults should rely on shield recharge(even GalAssault) to regenerate their buffer quickly enough that they may stop pursuers, or be in a reasonable enough position to re-attack (read: assault) in as short of a timeframe as possible. OK come on I have 250 HP I get cut like paper, so it should repair *snap* like that, there's no time when you have low HP. Just because you know where they are means you're not going to be in for a fight. We get the jump but it's never going to kill them quick enough to not retaliate. Nerfing scout regen sure it'll help against shield tanking but it will hurt the eWar scouts who don't fit tank modules. It will hurt any scout who doesn't tank either and plus it doesn't help the assaults any. Assaults need help but one thing at a time. Scouts are no more powerful than heavies, it's just the assaults that are lacking.
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3939
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Posted - 2014.07.01 04:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote: If you're able to see where almost all your enemies are, and not avoid an engagement, you're not exactly the best scout to begin with...And about the whole recharge rate, no one said anything about changing the delays, just the values, I mean c'mon if you're an e-war scout 25hp/s should be more than enough regen for you to not die after the regular delay, if you do get caught(as long as you're not tanking...)
Your statement needs clarifying "If you're able to see where almost all your enemies are, and not avoid an engagement you're not exactly the best scout to begin with..."
I assume you mean ", and avoid an engagement"
to which I say,
LOL
You believe it's the job of a scout not to fight. No no, we're totally stealthy and have these weapons and grenades and we're not going to assassinate something.
Also at 25 hp/s it would take 8 seconds, 8 seconds of having 160>shields assuming calscout. As a gallente I couldn't give a crud about shield recharge but the principle is at state.
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3942
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Posted - 2014.07.01 07:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote: Eh, can't be perfect at writing all the time. Anyway, I never said scouts aren't supposed to fight. A good E-war scout, or anybody else with common sense, would be able to assess the situation and not attack anyone that they weren't 100% sure would die before they could retaliate(i.e. stealth kill) .
I'm never 100% sure that anything can die before they can retaliate and neither should anyone considering lag, HP, crazy hit detection, etc.. Stealth kills only apply to OHK weapons and if you're like me and you don't have OHK weapons then you need to rely on the regenerative defenses of the suit.
Also my radar does not distinguish between heavies and mediums and lights so it's kind of hard to know if they can die quickly. Assessing situations requires eye-sight and if I can see them they can see me thus my cover is blown.
I rely on the QUICK regenerative abilities to survive fights, not the PROPORTIONALLY AVERAGE regenerative abilities to survive fights. When you don't have a lot of HP every second matters, thus a regen nerf is a nerf on eWar scouts. Also, like I have said earlier, if you want a suit with good regen, you choose the light frame. You don't pick the medium frame and then try and change the medium frame to not be medium.
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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